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General => The Colosseum => Topic started by: Magnum on August 23, 2017, 03:21:18 PM

Title: Ship collisions
Post by: Magnum on August 23, 2017, 03:21:18 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/22/politics/uss-mccain-7th-fleet-commander-dismissal/index.html

What do you think?

I do not know all the details but...

Two U.S. naval warships were hit by other commercial ships.

My brother was a sailor on the U.S.S. Nimitz.

He was fairly sharp.

Naval ships have the most advanced radar.

Are there sailors doing a visual watch ?


Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: rrr314159 on August 24, 2017, 01:56:28 PM
Some people think the US Navy is not what it was! My career was with the Navy (civilian contractor). Old buddies report discipline is not what it was, the changes have been bad, basic shiphandling skills not being beat in to the kids, as they must be. It's a tough job and no place for wimps, goof-offs, etc. But obviously they're going to say that no matter what! This may be a harbinger of things to come, or just a statistical blip. Wait and see.
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: anunitu on August 24, 2017, 05:01:42 PM
There have been 4 incidents this year,and Having been a "Can" Sailor,I can say I wondered about these events. We had a very good Captain on the Destroyer I sailed on. The blame comes down to how in touch the Captain is with the crew. Discipline is a key factor,and if it is allowed to become lax it will hurt the chain of command.
Reading about this,I was surprised by the number,and mainly Destroyers. Among ships ,a destroyer is small,usually a crew of around 100.
You are only about 5 to 10 feet from deck to water. They are built to go "Through" waves" rather than go over.
I hope this is not a trend,I would hate to see any more casualties.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/21/politics/navy-ships-crashing-readiness/index.html
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: anunitu on August 24, 2017, 05:11:58 PM
I should mention the watches are usually maned by seaman apprentice,and seaman ratings. some just out of Boot. so training and drills are essential.
Also a well trained deck crew is needed,and a very master "Boats" to lead them.

https://www.thebalance.com/boatswain-s-mate-navy-enlisted-rating-descriptions-3345786
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: hutch-- on August 24, 2017, 05:22:55 PM
Having only seen the photos of the big dent at the side of the hull around the waterline it does look suspiciously like someone was not looking where they were going. Its a shame about the crew that got killed but somewhere in the chain of command someone needs their arse kicked big time for allowing this to happen. It seems rediculous that a ship of this size with what should be state of the art radar that they could miss something like this.
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: nidud on August 24, 2017, 08:38:24 PM
Four similar accidents in one month don't sound like a coincident. The radar these ships use would normally sound an alarm if they are on a collision course, especially with slow moving cargo ships, so it doesn't add up.

Upcoming headline: The navy signed an n billion dollar contract with company x to upgraded the radar systems a few months ago..
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: rrr314159 on August 24, 2017, 08:50:14 PM
Yes, it's "too bad" about the casualties, as Trump says. Many call for "tightening safety procedures". But no one seems concerned about operational effectiveness. If they can't handle ships in peacetime, what happens if there's a war? If all that matters is the safety of sailors, what's the point of a Navy? Wouldn't it be better if they all stayed at home, hiding under the covers? We could hire illegal South Americans (cheaper than a Navy) to bring them food and change their bedpans. They'd be perfectly safe. The way it is now, someone might start shooting at them! That would really be dangerous. Better get them off those high seas quick, and safe at home with Mommy.
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: anunitu on August 24, 2017, 11:57:16 PM
Not sure how the radar and watches are handled now,but back when I was sailing(1966-69,your watch was using binoculars and keeping your eyes peeled. Radar is only so good,and a pair of keen eyes are needed. The one that happened before this latest one,it was said the merchant ship signaled the Destroyer,but got NO reply,so it seems that the watches and the wheelhouse were not paying attention. That is dereliction of duty ,and  a serious thing to be brought up on charges for,with the several deaths,it could become manslaughter,or worse. 
As RRR mentioned,it reflects a bad training and discipline issue. In WW2,if you screwed up,the ship might go down,and then YOU might be shark bait. Its a big ocean out there.
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: K_F on August 26, 2017, 06:47:42 PM
Not sure how true this is but  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VHXRYXzEVU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VHXRYXzEVU)
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: Siekmanski on August 26, 2017, 09:21:26 PM
 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: caballero on August 26, 2017, 10:32:40 PM
He he, I already knew it  :greensml:

By the way, "Finisterre" comes from Latin "finis terrae" that means "end of the earth". I guess that everything that was known from beyond was flat and a cliff at the end.
(http://ocw.unican.es/humanidades/teoria-y-metodos-de-la-geografia.-evolucion-del/material-de-clase-1/archivos-modulo-2/estrabon)

Its current location
(http://i2.wp.com/birdingfrontiers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/fiterramap.png)
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: jj2007 on August 26, 2017, 10:50:06 PM
He he, I already knew it  :greensml:

Background from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighthouse_and_naval_vessel_urban_legend) ;)
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: anunitu on August 27, 2017, 01:33:56 AM
Not sure how true this is but  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VHXRYXzEVU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VHXRYXzEVU)

I have heard that tale before,it was  going around back in 1966. It is just a funny story,never actually happened.
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: mineiro on August 27, 2017, 08:11:37 AM
We could hire illegal South Americans (cheaper than a Navy) to bring them food and change their bedpans. They'd be perfectly safe. The way it is now, someone might start shooting at them! That would really be dangerous. Better get them off those high seas quick, and safe at home with Mommy.
Some brazilians are now serving US army forces. They have seen an way to get a job and give support to their families. US also send to us some tanks that are getting obsolete to your needs but valuable to us.
US also have a finger on end of FARC at Colombia, but these things are not show on TV as we know.
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: Magnum on August 31, 2017, 01:59:34 PM
It is sad for the loss of life.

My brother was on the U.S.S. Nimitz and he told me many details about the Navy.

He worked hard and was criticized by other Navy personnel for "working too hard".





Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: daydreamer2 on September 01, 2017, 08:36:57 PM
It is sad for the loss of life.

My brother was on the U.S.S. Nimitz and he told me many details about the Navy.

He worked hard and was criticized by other Navy personnel for "working too hard".
tell your brother he did the right thing,I can guess that you are working in a key position at USS Nimitz and slack of only for a split second,planes will crash, innocent lives will be lost
and its a big risk that the radar personnel and/or other lookout personnel slacked off too much thats why they collided
I do not know if modern military vessels have collision alert, like in scifi a computer voice repeating "collision alert,collision alert" or computer automatically makes a turn to avoid collision
now when they have made selfsteering cars, ins unexusable to not have such safety devices

I dont want to be that commanding officer that writes letters to victims relatives that their man/son/father have died

I hope they come up with the conclussion that some kinda safety device need to be installed, rather than blame it on a scapegoat and Think its too expensive to install safety devices
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: K_F on September 02, 2017, 12:37:46 AM
To me this seems like a bad misjudgment, a delay (indecision) too long maybe, whether the naval ship or the other ship.. we'll find out sometime.
These large vehicles, once committed, a course cannot be reversed that easily/quickly.
The buck stops at the Captain of the Ship. ?

One of our sad mishaps.. http://www.saspresidentkruger.com/18th-february-1982/ (http://www.saspresidentkruger.com/18th-february-1982/)
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: anunitu on September 02, 2017, 01:09:08 AM
Really depends on the Captain. When I was sailing on a destroyer we had a VERY good Captain. Funny story,when I reported aboard,I got the skinny on the Captain. He replaced the one before because of a mutiny. The ship had been 6 months in the Tonkin gulf  yacht  club.(search about the Yacht club) and when they rotated out to the Philippine Islands for a little R&R the Captain would not let ANYONE go ashore. The full crew gathered on the fantail and chanted HIM,F*** HIM!!!!! The navy not being stupid enough to just side with the Captain,investigated and canned that Captain,and brought in the one to replace him. He was a VERY good Captain,in every way,connected close with the crew,and one of the finest sailer in all points of seamanship. We went through a typhoon,and he was the guy to have the helm because he knew his stuff.

A competent Captain is the glue that keeps a tight ship.   

This is the ship I sailed on.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/42/25/7d/42257d1a71ea024bdbb632d837a5af23.jpg)

If you wondered,this is how she rides.
 (http://www.aspen-ridge.net/USS_Kretchmer_-_Northern_Barrier.jpg)
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: daydreamer2 on September 03, 2017, 07:47:37 PM
they need to hire captain Haddock,check what he did in red sea Sharks, he avoided several torpedoes with a big cargo ship :P
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: hutch-- on September 11, 2017, 11:22:05 AM
anunitu,

Good photos of your old ship, looking at the second one, you either had your sea legs or a strong stomach.
Title: Re: Ship collisions
Post by: anunitu on September 11, 2017, 11:35:38 AM
I myself never had a day of being sick at sea. I took to sailing right away. I did go through a few rough times,but you have never lived unless you have a ladder(name for stairs) drop out from under you as you grip the rails so as to not go flying. In my mind,you kind of have to be born to it. I always wanted to be a sailor like my favorite Uncle. My grandparents on my moms side sailed on  clipper ships,the ones that did the Cape Horn passage,before they did the panama channel. Both of them were crew on those ships.

See here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Horn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Horn)