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Toddler's Corner => Romper Room => Topic started by: AW on March 01, 2020, 02:52:25 AM

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 01, 2020, 02:52:25 AM
This one is recommended for now:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6theyg1ujehvjq/antivirus.png?dl=1)
Title: Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on March 01, 2020, 05:55:01 AM
This one is recommended for now:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6theyg1ujehvjq/antivirus.png?dl=1)
:joking:
well they sold out masks here for coming corona so its probably better than nothing :badgrin:
 
Title: Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 01, 2020, 08:51:44 AM
I have heard many contradictory things about corona from different places and since no body may believe in mass media any more, there is an indeterminacy in people which causes them to deplete the stocks of masks in the market. It does not seem more serious than a common flu. So, why so much hysteria?
Title: Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on March 01, 2020, 01:06:28 PM
It does not seem more serious than a common flu. So, why so much hysteria?

Mortality is a factor 50 higher. Plus, about 15% of all infected people need a bed in the reanimation department. Since it's even more contagious than the common flu, you will need (e.g. in Spain, assuming 50% contagion) about 47e6*0.5*0.15=3.5 Million hospital beds in the reanimation department.

In Italy, contagion is right now approaching 0.002% (about 1200 cases), thanks to extremely rigorous measures. What about Spain?

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020/02/28/actualidad/1582875225_093333.html
Quote
En España, Sanidad ha confirmado en su último recuento 46 casos de coronavirus, a los que se han sumado en las últimas horas nueve nuevos contagios en Cataluña, Madrid, Canarias, Baleares, Andalucía y País Vasco. Además, Cantabria, Navarra y Asturias han identificado su primer caso, respectivamente
Title: Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on March 01, 2020, 05:31:16 PM
It does not seem more serious than a common flu. So, why so much hysteria?

Mortality is a factor 50 higher. Plus, about 15% of all infected people need a bed in the reanimation department. Since it's even more contagious than the common flu, you will need (e.g. in Spain, assuming 50% contagion) about 47e6*0.5*0.15=3.5 Million hospital beds in the reanimation department.

In Italy, contagion is right now approaching 0.002% (about 1200 cases), thanks to extremely rigorous measures. What about Spain?

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020/02/28/actualidad/1582875225_093333.html
Quote
En España, Sanidad ha confirmado en su último recuento 46 casos de coronavirus, a los que se han sumado en las últimas horas nueve nuevos contagios en Cataluña, Madrid, Canarias, Baleares, Andalucía y País Vasco. Además, Cantabria, Navarra y Asturias han identificado su primer caso, respectivamente
The flu you can at least get vaccine for,especially important for old people who can die of flu,because of too weak immune system
Nobody wants many of their relatives and friends die or worry about yourself get sick , until vaccine has been developed and produced to get enough to whole population
I hope nobody gets corona here or elsewhere

Title: Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 01, 2020, 07:15:34 PM
I have read here and there, and there is no way to have a solid opinion, it depends on who counts it. I tend to think that it is very similar to a common flu. I believe that people are alarmed, above all, by the images that come from China and because nobody believes the official versions of any kind.

There is a WhatsApp audio that has gone viral these days from a sanitarian that has attended a talk by specialists in the field and has sent it to their relatives. Basically it comes to say that it is a flu with few mucus. The best prevention is to wash your hands.

Here is the play:
https://cadenaser.com/ser/2020/02/29/sociedad/1582981811_450004.html

In Spain there are no special prevention measures. No one could be quarantined here, it would be impossible.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on March 01, 2020, 08:44:34 PM
I have read here and there, and there is no way to have a solid opinion, it depends on who counts it. I tend to think that it is very similar to a common flu. I believe that people are alarmed, above all, by the images that come from China and because nobody believes the official versions of any kind.
but its just natural to fear and worry if it will become some very serious illness,like 1918-1920 there was a very serious illness like flu,but many young people died and we all read about black death in school,but you stop fear and worry when they have some good cure and/or vaccine
I watch japanese tv and some companies sent home their workforce to work from home instead,I think some people maybe like to work from home and feel more comfortable at home,than commute among lots of people,which some might carry the corona virus
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 01, 2020, 09:38:37 PM
> like 1918-1920 there was a very serious illness like flu
Yes, the Spanish flu, a flu that wasn't Spaniard  :biggrin:

It is inevitable that this disease or any other spread throughout the planet because we are not prepared to isolate ourselves, in fact it is politically incorrect to do so.

There are many unknowns about this virus, but it seems that in its current format it does not seem of greater impact than a normal flu. Another thing is if it mutates to something worse. Hopefully not. In any case it seems likely that with the arrival of good weather, summer, will disappear and remain within the reservoirs. Only that by then it will have already passed to the southern hemisphere with its winter, where it could mutate for next winter in the north.

I want to think that it will go to the list of "usual" diseases.

If as a group it does not seem feasible to isolate ourselves, perhaps it could be done at the individual level. Telecommuting would not be a bad option. Many people do, we are in the 21st century.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 03, 2020, 08:47:57 PM
Beautiful song by Vienna classical cellos. Oh God, corona affected the music too  :bgrin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3SBzmDxGk
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: six_L on March 04, 2020, 05:39:31 AM
the COVID-19 is an new virus. she is a sister of SARSr-CoV, but powerful than it.Mortality is an about 10%. the COVID-19 is to use all but mouse ACE2 as an entry receptor in the ACE2-expressing cells.
the People's frist symptoms are like the common flu,cough,high fever(37.3C),and then can't breathing after two weeks.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 04, 2020, 06:52:22 AM
> Mortality is an about 10%
Spanish flu mortality was stimated between 10% and 20%. Do you say that it is similar?

References I have seen say its mortality is between 2% and 4% within China and 0,7% outside.

https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-51708029

It seems that the age range with the highest percentage of deaths is from 80 years. In children there seems to be no deaths from this cause. The age range where their contagion is most likely is between 40 and 50 years, where their percentage of deaths is very low.

If your age is lower than 60, it seems that you don't have anything to worry about.

In any case I do not believe that this virus can be controlled in time. So, hope, it is not as bad as you say. We will see what its development will be this month in Europe to get an idea.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: six_L on March 04, 2020, 07:16:33 AM
> antivirus recommendation wanted
because the COVID-19 is an newer,there is no any medicines or vaccines for using.until die or restored to health with your immune system.
only a way:
if you are healthy,stay home. if you must go out,protecting your mouth,your nose,your eye with the glass and the N95 stocks of masks. back home,wash your hands with the 75% alcohol.
if you are not healthy(with coughing,high fevering),go to hospital quickly for isolating,avoiding to spread your family members or friends. 
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: six_L on March 04, 2020, 07:32:41 AM
>References I have seen say its mortality is between 2% and 4% within China and 0,7% outside.
that is the official datas,many died people with the COVID-19 had not MEASURED. said to other sickness.

the COVID-19 mortality is not related the people's difference in age. only relating the people's immune system。
for example:
if the people's immune system is powerful enough,the people will be alive,No matter his(her) ages is 96 years old or 20 days baby.
if the people's immune system is weak enough,the people will be die,No matter his(her) ages is 45 years strong or 29 years Young.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 04, 2020, 08:25:51 AM
Your figures let me worried about its proximity to SARS. I have heard already similar explanations. The point is that I don't see people coughing or symptomatic in real life. It is starting in Europe, maybe for so.

> COVID-19 mortality is not related the people's difference in age. only relating the people's immune system

For sure. They are statistics. They are related to Edad/Age, Condición física/phisic condition and Sex/Sexo.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/15BD0/production/_111104098_death_ratio_spanish_640-nc.png)

Starting from 50 years old, the disease is more severe
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on March 04, 2020, 09:30:53 AM
Another, fairly complete data collection: Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 04, 2020, 08:49:38 PM
I want to think that it will not be so serious. If the Spanish flu was so virulent it was because it occurred in the middle of a world war where nutrition, cleaning, food and, therefore, people's immune system was not at a desirable level. Perhaps in another situation it would not have been so lethal.

We have a crowded political system of semi-illiterates with millionaire salaries whose only task seems to be to make laws that hinder anyone who wants to work and create wealth. When managing situations like this it seems that they are missing, and it is not surprising, given their level.

The masks on the market have run out. I remember with the fool of climate change, not long ago, the government of Spain sent to each home low-energy bulbs for free. Now they don't have money to send masks? Or do they spend this money on other more interesting issues?

Not being a fan of the government of Spain, while there is a Schengen area, I understand that the responsibility should be of the EU in giving certain guidelines that I think would give people more peace of mind. For example, I believe that it should be mandatory to salt the street with a mask until the danger passes: if you have the disease (even without knowing it) you can avoid its infection and if you do not have it you can avoid taking it. The use of mask is common in Asia and I think it is the most hygienic, here they would look at you like a stinker.

It could even wear some type of glove at the same time as the mask. I don't think it's so hard to think on something.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 04, 2020, 09:53:20 PM
Looking at the graphs it appears that the "number of deaths" is loosing momentum (mathematicians would tell, I guess, that the second derivative appears to be negative).
Number of cases growth rate does not appear to be accelerating.
So, prospects are that things may have already peaked. Am I right?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on March 04, 2020, 10:56:58 PM
For those who speak Russian, with greetings from Naples :cool:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: six_L on March 05, 2020, 05:24:10 AM
BREAKING NEWS:
The CDC has stopped disclosing the number of Americans tested for conronavirus.
On the left is how the website looked last night. On the right is what it looks like now, with the testing info removed.

The lack of testing is a scandal.
This is the converup.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: six_L on March 05, 2020, 06:26:52 AM
>For those who speak Russian, with greetings from Naples .
Quote
Frist, no conclusion has been reached yet on the source of the virus, as relevant tracing work is still underway. The WHO has said many times that what we are experiencing now is a global phenomenon with its source still undetermined, and we should focus on containing it and avoid stigmatizing language toward certain places. The name COVID-19 was chosen by the WHO for the purpose of making no connections between the virus and certain places or countries. Dr. Zhong Nanshan, respiratory specialist and member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, said that the epidemic was first reported in China but was not necessarily originated in China.

Second, we should all say no to "information virus" and "political virus". By calling it "China virus" and thus suggesting its origin without any supporting facts or evidence, some media clearly want China to take the blame and their ulterior motives are laid bare. The epidemic is a global challenge. The right move should be working together to fight it, which means no place for rumors and prejudice. What we need is science, reason and cooperation. Reasonable people will use science and cooperation to drive out ignorance and prejudice.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 06, 2020, 06:57:37 AM
A new generation of vaccines: gene vacine

https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/altering-human-genetics-through-vaccination
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 06, 2020, 08:54:48 PM
It is sad to confess but I am taking a little profit from the Corona virus and the fall of Wall Street by doing shorts.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on March 06, 2020, 09:50:46 PM
You will do even better if you can pick the bottom and get the rise in value.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 06, 2020, 10:35:31 PM
You will do even better if you can pick the bottom and get the rise in value.

I will gladly  take it both ways :skrewy: (no double meaning here  :eusa_dance:)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on March 07, 2020, 12:19:08 AM
You will do even better if you can pick the bottom and get the rise in value.

Good advice :thumbsup: When exactly is that "bottom"?  :smiley:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 07, 2020, 12:26:53 AM
 :biggrin: Yeah, absolute volatility now. Is it really that so serious or are we just going crazy?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 07, 2020, 12:38:29 AM
Standard&Poor Index:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/hs449oiq88zdxtg/spindex2.png?dl=1)

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on March 07, 2020, 12:48:28 AM
 :biggrin:

> When exactly is that "bottom"

That's the $64 dollar question. Wait till the stock values appear to be at rock bottom then buy stock that crashed a long way and "hope" it will come back again. If you get in early enough before it starts to rocket, you could end up many roubles in front.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 07, 2020, 01:04:15 AM
Because prices move in waves, all day long we have many bottoms and peaks. Some people make a nice living by "scalping", i.e buy on these bottoms and sell on the highs or vice-versa. Of course, there is also the spread, which the difference between the Buy and Sell price, and this is the margin for the broker, so we need to consider that as well to see if we gain anything.
Anyway, I am not an expert but am doing some small money now "thanks" to the Corona.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: six_L on March 08, 2020, 05:00:17 AM
a number of questions:
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses (https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses)

What is a coronavirus?
Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses which may cause illness in animals or humans.  In humans, several coronaviruses are known to cause respiratory infections ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS). The most recently discovered coronavirus causes coronavirus disease COVID-19.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: JonasS on March 09, 2020, 04:10:54 AM
It is sad to confess but I am taking a little profit from the Corona virus and the fall of Wall Street by doing shorts.  :rolleyes:

Last year I invested 500 euro and emptied my account in 3 or 4 trades.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 09, 2020, 06:04:52 AM
I have also invested 500 and had a margin call just after a few hours, then another, another and 4 others. This means that I had to deposit a total of 3500 just to secure the position and not lose everything. Fortunately, I was lucky in the end. I recovered everything and had a small profit. I have withdrawn all the investment to my bank and am only trading with profits.
But the general rule is that 90% of the people will loose 90% of the money in 90 days or less.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 10, 2020, 06:56:56 AM
It seems to me that the worst thing about coronavirus is the hysteria it is producing and the evidence of poor administration. We still do not know how long we will have to live with the virus, so it does not seem very smart to stop the productive system of a country by closing schools, universities, or production centers. I believe that nowhere is it mandatory to wear a mask and gloves or to administer public services so as not to be overcrowded and, in this way, to prevent them from approaching each other within a meter, that teachers and other authorities administer the obligation to wear masks and gloves, as well as washing hands when entering and leaving a productive center.

I read that in Italy there has been a riot in prisons due to the coronavirus. If the issue continues, it seems foreseeable that there will be riots, looting at supermarkets or lynchings to potential affected. Not talking about economy, already heading to recession, with this new element.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 15, 2020, 04:32:32 AM
Be 100% safe!

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/6osrz61hyprlbby/besafe.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 15, 2020, 05:07:11 AM
This morning I went to buy, also people were hoarding everything, there were people with up to 2 and 3 shopping carts full and I must confess that even I bought more than I really needed for the weekend.

Then I went for a run and it was all closed. The circuit where I usually run closed nobody around, so I skipped the fence and started running (I know it's ugly, but it was fantastic without anyone). A little later they stopped me and forced me to go outside, to run on the street.

The thing is, many people have taken this confinement as a vacation. There are beach places that are full of people, and not just Spaniards. What things  :biggrin:

https://okdiario.com/sociedad/miles-turistas-ignoran-medidas-contener-coronavirus-benidorm-5297672
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on March 15, 2020, 11:50:53 AM
I just read in the news that Spain is now taking similar action to other countries to try and limit the transfer of the virus. It seems the virus will do more to knacker globalism than all of the wars and economic policy combined.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 15, 2020, 06:46:07 PM
Yes it is. The problem is that the government has done so badly that conspiracy theories begin to run.

- In the first place, the government denied seriousness because it had to celebrate the 8-m women's day, when it has come to light that the government was already aware of the rapid spread of the virus. But for some reason they needed this manifestation of some 100,000 crazy feminists to take place.

- Secondly, on Friday it comes out on TV indicating that on Saturday it will decree the state of emergency in Spain. As Madrid is the community that, supposedly, has the most cases, it gives time for many people to leave here to go to other places, allowing people infected or carrying the disease to go to other places to infect more people. So a rapid increase in cases is expected due to this circumstance. Apart from that this is going to stop the economy of the country that was already on the way to recession. Wonderful.

- Third, no other measures have ever been tested. Knowing the problem in China and Italy already, the borders were never closed, since it is politically incorrect: open borders policy for everyone.

- In fourth place. Mysteriously, gloves and masks disappeared from the market for almost a month. Which is a problem of shortages in fact, which, together with the ineffectiveness of the government and its alleged lies, has caused hysteria in the shopping centers, hoarding products.


As I see it so far, COVID-19 is not a disease so serious as to provoke such hysteria if the incompetence of governments had not been added. It seems that the elderly or those with some type of immunodeficiency are the ones that should be especially careful and this is where the containment and isolation efforts could have been focused. Aside from the fact that it spreads very quickly, causing hospitals to overflow, a person with a motorcycle accident can die because there is no place in hospitals, which under normal conditions could be saved.

There is an interesting article in The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/europe/spain-coronavirus-emergency.html) regarding covid in Spain.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 15, 2020, 08:58:42 PM
Overcrowding hospitals seems the challenge

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/14/italians-80-will-left-die-country-overwhelmed-coronavirus/
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 21, 2020, 11:00:09 PM
Apparently there has been success treating this coronavirus with chloroquine, which is an old medicine for malaria that I experimented myself when I was in Africa.

The real problem is that there is no real money behind it, and money is what makes things move in this World. So, let's have a few millions die while labs try to find something that can be sold @1000.00 a pill.

https://www.covidtrial.io/
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 22, 2020, 01:38:29 AM
There are several important facts:
- Spain: 25,374 infected, 1,378 deceased, 2,125 recovered. This is a 5.43% case fatality
- Italy: 47,021 infected, 4,032 deaths. This is 8.57% case fatality, which is very high
- Germany: 19,848 infected, 68 dead. This is a .345% lethality

The Germany case is very striking, so few deaths with so many infected. Which has stood out a lot among the experts. I would say that no country has yet reached Italy's fatality rates. What has happened?

But in addition to this, as I've heard (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSes7TI_Pkk&feature=youtu.be) is that those who have needed covid-19 assisted ventilation will develop pulmonary fibrosis in less than one year. Their lungs are distorted. So there will be an increase in deaths from covid-19 that will probably not appear in the statistics.

Another important point as I have read is that in China there are no new internal infections in several days, however, they are noticing that there are infections from imported cases, so a new wave of epidemic is feared.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on March 22, 2020, 03:35:06 AM
As regards Italy, here is a video that may help you understand the situation. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSLQZdjpYoo)

Congrats to the Chinese government - it seems many believe their figures. (https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3871594)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 22, 2020, 04:23:21 AM
Images that come from Bergamo are overwhelming.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 23, 2020, 06:18:54 AM
Please, allow me to pay a small tribute to Italy. Going over the internet I found Italian disco music from the 80s, a real pleasure.  :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obAEUiVn8eA&list=RDobAEUiVn8eA&start_radio=1&t=7

The other day I read that the infection curve in Madrid was even worse than in Italy. Hope we will reach the top of the Gaussian curve soon.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Greenhorn on March 23, 2020, 10:46:41 AM
Here's a map that shows hourly the progress of the pandemia.

https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/corona-virus-karte-infektionen-deutschland-weltweit/ (https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/corona-virus-karte-infektionen-deutschland-weltweit/)

It shows what SEA did right and what et. al. EU and US is doing wrong.
Please note that the estimated number of unreported cases in EU and US is relatively high due to insufficient testing methods.
The SEA states, for example, are testing much more accurate.

You can see it at the US, where the numbers of reported infections are exploding since two days. I guess this is due to more testing now.

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Greenhorn on March 23, 2020, 11:11:03 AM
There are several important facts:
- Spain: 25,374 infected, 1,378 deceased, 2,125 recovered. This is a 5.43% case fatality
- Italy: 47,021 infected, 4,032 deaths. This is 8.57% case fatality, which is very high
- Germany: 19,848 infected, 68 dead. This is a .345% lethality

The Germany case is very striking, so few deaths with so many infected. Which has stood out a lot among the experts. I would say that no country has yet reached Italy's fatality rates. What has happened?

This is really strange, yes.
Germany has a capacity of 3o,ooo intensive cares. In total, not in reserve ! But this is still more than Italy has, due to austerity opression by the EU (and especially by Germany).

By the time Italy requested help from Germany, our Chancelorette Angela "Mutti" Merkel came out of her cave and just said: "Goood luck, Italy. Ihr schafft das!".
I'm ashamed of her.
But the rest of the neoliberal m*****f*****s is not doing better.

Trump, for example, tried to buy a promising vaccine from a german company CureVac (owned by the founder of SAP). Exclusively for the US !
This is lived American exceptionalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism) (no, this is no satire). From this point of view non-us-americans are 2nd class humans.

However, best wishes to all of you and stay healthy !
Title: Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Greenhorn on March 23, 2020, 11:52:42 AM
China is reporting no new infections since a few days.
They have sent medicinal personal and lung ventilators to Italy.
Cuba also did.
Thank you China! Thank you Cuba!
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on March 23, 2020, 01:33:50 PM
 :biggrin:

Greenhorn,

You sound nearly as cynical as I am.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on March 23, 2020, 05:00:52 PM
There are several important facts:
- Spain: 25,374 infected, 1,378 deceased, 2,125 recovered. This is a 5.43% case fatality
- Italy: 47,021 infected, 4,032 deaths. This is 8.57% case fatality, which is very high
- Germany: 19,848 infected, 68 dead. This is a .345% lethality

The Germany case is very striking, so few deaths with so many infected. Which has stood out a lot among the experts. I would say that no country has yet reached Italy's fatality rates. What has happened?

This is really strange, yes.


Germany tests everybody, so they have fairy exact quantification of the volume of infected people.
Other countries hide by sweeping under the carpet while playing beautiful songs that post on youtube.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 23, 2020, 06:56:19 PM
As I have read, some countries do not test the covid for dead people, counting only the covid patients who die. This may also be a reason.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 24, 2020, 12:56:10 AM
Not every one is tested, how many of the confirmed Corona deaths actually died by the Flu or other underlying diseases?
The WHO juggling with numbers, and how trustworthy are the numbers from the Johns Hopkins University Coronavirus charts?

Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

from the small letters at the bottom of the screen:
Quote
Confirmed cases include presumptive positive cases.
Recovered cases outside China are estimates based on local media reports, and may be substantially lower than the true number.

This explains why only 2 of the 4.217 people in the Netherlands have recovered from Corona......

I'm Mad As Hell and I'm Not Gonna Take This Anymore!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRuS3dxKK9U

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on March 24, 2020, 01:36:32 AM
@siekmanski
problem with elderly people who havent got a flu vaccine shot for the yearly flu can die of flu because at their old age immune system is too weak,and it act about similar as corona
However, best wishes to all of you and stay healthy !
DITTO :thumbsup:
makes me think I should finish the very tiny things on a project before anything happen to me
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 24, 2020, 01:42:36 AM
2012: German Gov Was Warned Of Pandemic…Yet Instead Poured Tens Of Billions Into “Climate Protection”

https://dipbt.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/17/120/1712051.pdf

https://notrickszone.com/2020/03/22/2012-german-gov-was-warned-of-pandemic-yet-instead-poured-tens-of-billions-into-climate-protection/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKogyVukT_8
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 24, 2020, 04:38:56 AM
Here the government has known about the seriousness of the virus for a long time, especially before the feminist 8m demonstration, but the government needed to celebrate this event as a propaganda act. The "experts" in the government's service played down the drama and claimed it was similar to the flu. The entire government encouraged people to participate in this celebration and the related media, which are all, ridiculed any contrary opinion. Consequently, a time bomb with a virus of such high spread. No borders were closed with what was already seen in Italy because it is ideologically contrary to the government.

One of the government's flags is its fight against private healthcare. One of the vice-presidents encouraged women to attend the 8m demonstration because "their lives were depends on it". She is now admitted to a private hospital for coronavirus infection, though she could choose public health.

The monetary issue is something similar. We already know that it is going to be brutal and nobody seems to compromise a serious recovery plan, neither in Spain nor in Europe. There is already talk of layoffs or lower wages. Will politicians lose wages? Will we lower the number of politicians?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 24, 2020, 06:22:10 AM
An hour ago, our country has new corona rules, 400 euros fine for people who do not keep 1.5 meters distance and 4000 euros fine, if shops do not comply with these rules.
Luckily no lock down yet. We are still free to move around.
I must say in my region people are smart enough to take it serious to protect the elderly and the vulnerable.
We also do not have enough hospital beds anymore ( thanks to the health care cuts in the last 25 years ) and can not afford that to many people get infected in a short time.
People who can't go to work, 90% of their wages will be compensated.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 24, 2020, 06:41:40 AM
There are fines here for those who get out of confinement, but it's usually pretty lax. At the moment it is allowed to take the dog for a walk, go shopping without counting the number of times, etc.  A group of 70 scientists (https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-03-21/un-grupo-de-cientificos-reclaman-el-confinamiento-total-de-la-poblacion.html) has asked the government for a total confinement, not partial as for now, otherwise we would reach the saturation of the health system around the 25th of this month of March. The government has dismissed it and continues with its system.

Yesterday I heard a biologist say that if we kept strict confinement we could start to get out of this situation at the end of the summer, otherwise at the end of the year. That would leave the system in a limit situation. ¿Who to believe to?

Here you are paid a 75% of what you charge if cannot work. Question is for how long?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 24, 2020, 06:52:49 AM
I think the problem is the shortage of hospital beds, to many people are infected in a very short time.
How long it will take? China is slowly starting normal life again.

Here you are paid a 75% of what you charge if cannot work. Question is for how long?

We could stop wasting money on "Climate Protection" and use it for this situation.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on March 24, 2020, 06:53:28 AM
Here you are paid a 75% of what you charge if cannot work. Question is for how long?
dont worry,soon its like 1922 you have to use 3 Million Euro to pay for a single bread :skrewy:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 24, 2020, 07:13:26 AM
> I think the problem is the shortage of hospital beds, to many people are infected in a very short time
Yes, in addition to that, if you need intensive care you will develop pulmonary fibrosis in less than a year, according to what I heard in an interview with a Russian expert that I posted the other day that now I cannot find.

The point is: if you are over 60-70 years old, or with any previous pathology, you should be worried. But even if you are younger, there are a thing called viral load that you should also fear.

> We could stop wasting money on "Climate Protection" and use it for this situation.
Yes. There are a lot of things we could stop putting money into and that I still don't dare talk about today.


> dont worry,soon its like 1922 you have to use 3 Million Euro to pay for a single bread
Yes, but not only that. There are a lot of dangers that nobody seems to see. Like the possible disintegration of the EU, each state seeking to optimize its own resources, and the economic debacle that it would entail in the short term.

To this day I do not know any economic plan or anyone who goes out to explain it, beyond the populist proposals for money for all.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 24, 2020, 07:14:28 AM
Here you are paid a 75% of what you charge if cannot work. Question is for how long?
dont worry,soon its like 1922 you have to use 3 Million Euro to pay for a single bread :skrewy:

Fill your freezer with it and you can become a multi millionaire.  :skrewy:
Title: Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on March 24, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
China is reporting no new infections since a few days.
They have sent medicinal personal and lung ventilators to Italy.
Cuba also did.
Thank you China! Thank you Cuba!
Brazil sent 2 million masks to Italy, in addition to lung ventilators for health
professionals, hmm, few reports.

Predicting the future; and beyond that others will come.
I always wonder why after some embargo a disease happens (3 times).

Let's not forget the beginning. Doctors who reported lung problems were killed,
the quarantined city has few lights on at night these days, the press only reported
what the government wanted, lying to its own population; it seems to me that the
packaging is worth more than the content; well, Italy would not be like that,
in addition to other countries.
So, ok, one country is being more rich than before at cust of lifes. Oil prices falling,
now it's time to buy other countries.

In other country they call it pneumonia, you know, propaganda.
In some Asia countries little is known.

The installation of the New World Order has started, I mean, conspiracy theory.
Media hysteria and exterminating people.

We must be supportive at this time, but fair too. God bless us.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 24, 2020, 08:11:32 AM
> China is slowly starting normal life again.

China has not reported new internal contagions, but imported ones. So it has decided derivated planes to airports far from Beijing where they will be quarantined before entering China.

The body is not immunized once the covid has passed.

> The installation of the New World Order has started, I mean, conspiracy theory
Yeah, I have heard some of them.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 24, 2020, 09:37:34 AM
Two ministers in France are denounced for not acting in time against the coronavirus (https://okdiario.com/espana/sanchez-iglesias-tiemblan-denuncian-dos-ministros-francia-no-actuar-tiempo-contra-coronavirus-5333009?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=internal-referral)

"They were aware of the danger and had the means of action, which however they decided not to exercise"
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 24, 2020, 11:22:11 AM
Just comparing some numbers,

2018: The Netherlands, more than 8,000 deaths by the Flu, not enough hospital beds.
No PANIC at all?????????????
213 Corona deaths big PANIC???

Why is the whole world in PANIC now?

World population 7,772,924,000
Deaths by Corona 16,495 = 0.0002%

Will the world wide lockdowns be worse than the Coronavirus itself?

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on March 24, 2020, 12:35:20 PM
Why is the whole world in PANIC now?

https://www.portandterminal.com/leaked-video-of-the-day-coffins-obituaries-in-italy-as-the-virus-cuts-through/

I assume everybody knows how to interpret a logarithmic scale.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 24, 2020, 01:12:06 PM
We will have to see when the exponential growth of deaths will flatten out and fall down again.
Then we can compare it with the Flu numbers from previous years.
This will be very difficult because most of the suspected Corona deaths have not been tested and could be potential Flu victims.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 24, 2020, 11:34:34 PM
It is difficult to distinguish now between deaths from common flu and from covid. The truth is that the ICUs are overwhelmed, perhaps by a combination of both. Another thing that strikes me is the level of mortality that exists in Italy and also in Spain, compared to other countries such as Germany for example. Because we are talking about 10%, which is very high.

I would not have stopped the production system, but would have used the army to manage the use of public transport, the use of masks / gloves and the work in the production centers. I think this situation could have been better managed.

If the situation continues like this for a long time, we will soon forget about covid as the main problem, and start to see what we have done with the economy.

But I don't see in any country, that I know of, anybody who does something different to confine people to their homes.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Vortex on March 24, 2020, 11:41:07 PM
Hi caballero,

Personally, I ccongratulate the Germans. Disciplined and methodic folk. This is the secret of their success.

Quote
I would not have stopped the production system, but would have used the army to manage the use of public transport, the use of masks / gloves and the work in the production centers. I think this situation could have been better managed.

This can work if you already have a plan to organize folks in such cases. The problem is that the whole planet is not prepared against this pandemic :  Confining people to their homes is probably not the best decision but this is the quickest decision to be executed at the moment.

Remembering for General George S. Patton's quote :

Quote
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 25, 2020, 12:21:19 AM
As very organized as you are, I don't understand those numbers. The problem with this virus is that it saturates the ICUs. If we had an infinite line of ICUs there wouldn't be that much of a problem. So far we do not have that saturation. However, our mortality rate is 6.80%, while that of Germany is 0.45%. Could it be something genetic? Because in Italy mortality is also high. I do not know.

I would understand that there were few affected in Germany, but we are talking about 32,577.

One of the hypotheses is that in Germany they do not test the covid to the dead, they only count the covid infected who die. Still, the figures don't add up.

In any case, I hope they keep good.

I understand Patton's phrase, but we are not sure to get rid of the virus. What is certain is the strong economic impact.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on March 25, 2020, 12:25:51 AM
To annihilate the lives of human beings on the planet, we would need 266,196 deaths a day for 80 years, regardless of births. The last news I have is that the world population has stopped growing.

Imagine if the installation of the free world, a world without borders, mass migrations that we discussed so much had won.

Television has shown that countries with public hospitals are better than private hospitals. It's not what I see! They tried to induce a graphic curve in a vicious way, where in reality the number of habitants of each country should be compared, and not the cosmetic adopted by them.

Honestly, I see interest game again.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Vortex on March 25, 2020, 12:31:15 AM
Hi caballero,

I am very sorry to learn about whappened in Spain and Italy. The media is reporting every day the case in Europe and we follow the news.

It's not about the Genetics of the German people. It's all about the Robert Koch Institute, the diligence and the discipline of the folk.

There will be surely a strong economic effect. Let's hope the the scientists will succeed to synthesis a new medicine if possible. Of course, the preliminary tests of a new \ known medication to cure the disease can take time.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 25, 2020, 02:19:40 AM
The last news I have is that the world population has stopped growing.

It's still growing: https://www.worldometers.info/
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: TimoVJL on March 25, 2020, 03:42:19 AM
Maybe Covid-19 have a wrong target ?
Young and fertile is much better target for that, than old and sick ?
So it's just for for monetary purposes ?


Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on March 25, 2020, 04:25:35 AM
Thank you sir Siekmanski.


sir TimoVJL, I read some speculations but I prefer to remain impartial, they may be lies, I'm not sure:
Some say the RNA virus was created in the laboratory while some say the structure is related to that found in the bat. It is not good to focus on this issue because chemical and biological wars are unacceptable by any country in the world. The whole world unites against a single country.
Another was the relationship between covid and the number 33. The number 33 is the last degree of a Mason, some remember the age of Christ.
Another point was that the population of young people versus the elderly is becoming equal, how to solve problems like Social Security? Retirement? It happened in Brazil, France. Previous governments have pushed for the next generation, so young workers guarantee the elderly to retire, but this is changing. How to pay the elderly their pensions?
And finally, the plan for global mortality, fast (abortion, illness), medium (incentive to homosexuality, gender ideology, feminism).

I had forgotten, now the world is becoming more digital and virtual, it is the implantation of the new world order. It is a good time to check how many are connected, the points and paths, the relationships.
And another speculation I read was about new entrepreneurs; we know that there was a liberal(Mises/rothbard)-conservative(Adam Smith) wave in response to the growing socialism-communism (Marx, Engels) worldwide. Those who opened stores, businesses have now been forced to close. In portuguese language the word liberal means right while I suppose in english language means left, thats why I said names.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 25, 2020, 06:41:04 AM
The number of health personnel infected by covid-19 in Spain are already 5,400, many more than people recovered. The lack of sanitary material and protection for them is scandalous. Many believe that the government simply does not have money for them. The case is that dozens of private companies have gone to work to manufacture and donate tons of such material. Don't talk about prevision.

https://www.elmundo.es/ciencia-y-salud/salud/2020/03/24/5e7a0c32fdddffbe7a8b4633.html
https://www.eldiariomontanes.es/economia/grandes-ibex-movilizan-20200324165326-ntrc.html?ref=https:%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F


As for the economy, I think it is clear that we will have to default on the debt. From there, we will have to lower salaries, pensions, etc. and, if we learn the lesson, working and spending less we will get out of it.

God bless the queen  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 25, 2020, 07:55:10 AM
I've just listening that in the USA only risk people will be confined in house and the rest will go to work with security measures. What I have said here some days ago. Well done, this will be the finest, I think. Good luck  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 25, 2020, 08:43:06 AM
Think we need to take all the corona numbers a bit more in perspective....

More than 99% of Italy's coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions, according to a study by the country's national health authority.

Source: ISS Italy National Health Institute, March 17 sample
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 25, 2020, 09:00:09 AM
I just saw a video of a Spanish doctor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJkFoPUIfHE) who launches an idea that suits me best. In other words, I don't think that the death rate is so disparate between Spain and Italy and Germany. Okay, Germany can be very orderly, but once someone catches it, the death rate is what it is. What this doctor says is that the mortality rate may be around 1% (according to the figures of countries where many tests have been done), then what happens is that they are hiding the number of cases from us and that fits me more.

If we assume that Spain has 2,808 deaths, with 1% mortality, which was more or less what there was at the beginning of all this, that gives us a number of infected of 280,800 instead of the 39,885 officials.

And I say that this fits me more because we know that this virus is very contagious and there were many demonstrations (crowd people, don't know the word) in Spain, a breeding ground for rapid spread.

This is more in line with the figures provided by Germany.


Or even that all are lying, including Germany, which may be the higher mortality rate, the numbers of infected people much higher than the figures provided, and the deaths in Germany also higher. Who knows.

What doesn't make much sense to me is that the death rate is so disparate between different countries.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on March 25, 2020, 10:43:37 AM
> What doesn't make much sense to me is that the death rate is so disparate between different countries.

It probably has some to do with social custom, the assumption that extended families are the correct social model works against its members in that there is much more close social contact which in turn increases the transmission of the virus among members. It may not be so bad for younger healthier family members but the frail and elderly are at much greater risk.

From  when Ghengis Khan brought the black death to Europe, separation and isolation has been the main defender of those who survived and little has changed since then, a collection of monks cloistered in their own monastery were at very low risk where people who lived in the towns in close contact with many others died like flies. From memory the black death selectively took out certain blood types where some had much greater resistance. I think it was type O and type A+.

We have yet to see if some people have greater resistance than others.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 25, 2020, 05:38:44 PM
People in the south are warmer than in the north, more physical contact. When you meet someone, everyone shakes hands with the boy and kisses the girl twice, which is almost something intimate in the north. This results in the hypothesis that there are many more real infected people than in the official figures.

On the other hand, in the south are the oldest people in the world, which is the age range with the highest mortality, which may raise the mortality ratio here compared to the north, but I don't think so much.

Fernando Simón himself, a government epidemiologist, already said that when more tests are done, the mortality rate will probably decrease. When was asked about the disparity in mortality between Germany and Spain, he said he did not know. I think he does. It is clear that there are many more cases of covid than appear in the official figures and they are aware of it. Probably not even the government knows exactly because there simply hasn't been enough testing.

It seems that the key is to do many tests from the beginning to locate infected people to quarantine and not spread the infection. That is what Germany and South Korea did. Therein lies the key to success. Once the spread is massive, mass testing no longer makes sense.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on March 25, 2020, 08:55:23 PM
More than 99% of Italy's coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions

Which is absolutely normal for any European country with high life expectancy.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 25, 2020, 10:38:09 PM
I update an important fact to understand the figures. It seems that for several days, as in Italy, due to the saturation of the hospitals, they do not admit those older than 80 to ICUs, at least in some hospitals. Without respirators they have no choice but to die. This certainly raises the mortality coefficient. That is, the more the number of infected increases to the point of collapse of hospitals, the mortality rate will skyrocket, not from the disease itself, but from lack of medical care.

I think it would be important to know this virus in order to optimize coexistence with it and understanding the data is important for it.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on March 25, 2020, 11:29:32 PM

It seems that the key is to do many tests from the beginning to locate infected people to quarantine and not spread the infection. That is what Germany and South Korea did. Therein lies the key to success. Once the spread is massive, mass testing no longer makes sense.
if its so dangerous, we should maybe do same as after Atomic,Biological,Chemical warfare has happened:mass burn all clothes and shower off all contanimation and new clean clothes?
But it's probably illegal if not in wartime or a dictator order it

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Greenhorn on March 27, 2020, 05:24:23 AM
:biggrin:

Greenhorn,

You sound nearly as cynical as I am.

What else remains after 4o years of neoliberal dumbing down of the poeple.

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Greenhorn on March 27, 2020, 05:44:19 AM
Russia has sent lung ventilators to Italy.
Thank you Russia!

mineiro, yes, thank you Brasil.
And yes, in the beginning the chinese responded with opression and propaganda but as it got serious they did actions that seem to help for a slow down of the pandemia.

Iran is hit by the sanctions of the NATO states.

Meanwhile Trump talks to the old poeple: "Go and die for the rich 1%."
Slowly I start to think it is satire ...

The finacial capitalism of the western states has gone so fragile that it wouldn't survive a total lock-down of it's economy for a day. No reserves, all is optimized for profit.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on March 27, 2020, 06:07:16 AM
 :biggrin:

Yes you definitely ARE as cynical as I am.  :tongue:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 27, 2020, 06:35:39 AM
> neoliberalism
Normally I keep quiet, but I will make a short summary. In Spain we have a social-communist government. They have placed their women, friends and anyone from the party as ministers, they have increased the number of ministries to bring them all in. The minister of health is a graduate in philosophy, which is not bad, because perhaps he has studied something. Their objective was the 8m propaganda, therefore they could not prohibit mass events of the same date because then they should have prohibited the 8m march. Hundreds of thousands of people hugging and kissing throughout Spain. The next day the schools close (from one day to the next). All the media ridiculed the severity of the virus and encouraged to go to the demonstration. Today, one of the big (private) mass media is asking the government for money so as not to fail. They drink from the tit of the state. Neoliberal? Understandably, there was no critical voice in any major media. The president announces on Friday the state of alarm for Saturday, giving 24 hours for everyone to escape to all corners of the country and even outside taking the infection with them.

The government accuses the opposition of wanting to destroy public health in favor of private health. Vice President Carmen Calvo tests positive for coronavirus and runs to the Ruber International (private) clinic in a kind of palace to be attended.

On the other hand, the economy. Thanks to the Keynesians we are now beyond 100% debt, which does not give us room for maneuver at all. Before the elections this government was spending a lot of money on propaganda, on raising the salaries of officials, on increasing the number of officials, pensions, etc. And in other things where now I do not enter. Surely now we does not have a penny left and so we are, scarce of respirators, masks, etc. People who work in hospitals or law enforcement agencies do not have. We are already on the record of employment regulation and salary reductions and we are just starting. Being in these, as I have heard in the Valencian Parliament, the politicians' wages have been raised. But it is that Europe has allowed the government of Spain to get into debt without remedy, the ECB was buying Spanish debt in the secondary market. To this day, I do not think that Spain has any other choice but to default on debt. Which will put the ECB in the pillory.

On the other hand, where is the EU. It is conspicuous by its absence. Hundreds of thousands of politicians for nothing.

Are there no scientists in Europe? They are all under political supply and that is why no one spoke or is that science disappeared

Given what was happening in China and Italy, the right-wing opposition requested the closure of borders. The government called them fascists.

We are just starting, this goes for several months, with the economy stopped. And we are still thinking in ideological terms.
Title: Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Greenhorn on March 27, 2020, 06:59:56 AM
caballero, full ack.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Greenhorn on March 27, 2020, 07:12:15 AM
:biggrin:

Yes you definitely ARE as cynical as I am.  :tongue:

Volker Pispers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volker_Pispers) said about our society:
"We're buying things that we don't need, from money that we don't have, to impress people that we don't like."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mRQ0AcoCkI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mRQ0AcoCkI)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: TimoVJL on March 27, 2020, 08:10:37 AM
In Finland, young women handle this corona situation.
An old mens like Trump can't do that ? Money before lifes ?
As Trump said, 'We will make USA great again', it means that in corona  USA is a leader, most of corona infected will be in USA, they will take a first position after russian.
This time the they can beat them in records.
USA have a lousy healthcare.

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 27, 2020, 08:48:42 AM
I think that there should be some plans to be able to work because there is no money to give a salary to everyone who stays at home for much more than one month, in some countries more than others. But the truth is that once the infection curve decreases, the quarantine restrictions cannot be eased because we could run the risk of re-entering an upward curve, so we have several months left. We start from a very delicate economic situation. This method would have to be very rigorous and very well controlled, so I think the army should intervene to administer this methodology. In other words, I think we cannot afford to stop the economy right now.

But what strikes me is not listening to different plans, I just listen to confinement, which can be very good if we were in a situation where we could afford it.

Why is Europe not mass producing masks, gloves, and other necessary items? Why are they still not in the market? Why is nobody organizing or directing all this?
 
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on March 27, 2020, 11:51:37 AM
 :biggrin:

I think the answer is to dress up like Slobodan Bin Gaddafi and when pigs hassle you, tell them you are trying to protect yourself from disease ridden pigs like him. :tongue:

The value of a face mask is to catch airborn particles from someone who coughs or sneezes close to you, they will not prevent much finer particles.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 27, 2020, 11:56:17 AM
Global elite has declared war on the people.
Here in the Netherlands we have a shortage of corona test fluid.
The Swiss company Roche Pharma can't deliver enough test fluid and refuse to give the recipe for the fluid so we can make it ourselves.
The stockholders profits are more important than dying people.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on March 27, 2020, 12:22:42 PM
Here in the Netherlands we have a shortage of corona test fluid.

I thought Rutte wanted herd immunity, why do you need tests?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 27, 2020, 01:07:38 PM
You're right, his puppet masters told him to.
The Dutch people stopped his globalist wet dream.
We are now in an "intelligent lockdown", as he calls it.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on March 27, 2020, 01:56:30 PM
If Greta did not work, try justifying police state control over the corona virus. "We are keeping you safe by killing you."
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 27, 2020, 07:38:26 PM
The type of mask that scientists say is correct, let's make it massively so that we all use it when going out and that, especially health workers do not lack it as until now, respirators, etc. Right now we don't need cars. I am sure that Europe is capable of manufacturing everything necessary. Why was it not done? Why is it not done?

Regarding the rapid tests, I also do not believe that it cannot be massively prepared. We are far behind in many things due to the ineptitude of the politicians, but even today it does not seem clear that this will change.

I very much doubt that Spain will be able to pay the April salary to all those who stay at home. We cannot afford the luxury of this confinement, those who can telework is a good idea remain at home, but the rest should have all the guarantees to go out to their workplace.

Soon the economic problem will overcome covid-19.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 27, 2020, 08:16:56 PM
The European Union is not for the people, that must be clear by now.

Social distancing is the key-word to keep us at home.
There are many work situations that can continue with the same rules, but no, they want us to stay at home?

Gatherings of more than 2 people are prohibited with 1 exemption,
Church and Mosque gatherings are allowed but no more than 30 people?????
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on March 28, 2020, 12:27:47 AM
The European Union is not for the people, that must be clear by now.

Social distancing is the key-word to keep us at home.
There are many work situations that can continue with the same rules, but no, they want us to stay at home?

Gatherings of more than 2 people are prohibited with 1 exemption,
Church and Mosque gatherings are allowed but no more than 30 people?????
So you have to deliver your newborn yourself,because midwife+wife+ you a illegal crowd and if you get twins or triplets, going to complicate it even more
This is to remind you about there sometimes happen babies get borned in taxi on the way to the hospital
Marriage at courthouse, man and wife and mayor of town, or man and wife and captain of the ferry,John lennon and yoko ono got married this way
Strong man accompanying a tiny weak woman to help carry big package of toilet paper or other heavy things in a shop + new-born baby depending on mother
Ambulance driver+ personal necessary to assist +victim of accident
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on March 30, 2020, 01:55:04 AM
And yes, in the beginning the chinese responded with opression and propaganda but as it got serious they did actions that seem to help for a slow down of the pandemia.

Iran is hit by the sanctions of the NATO states.

Meanwhile Trump talks to the old poeple: "Go and die for the rich 1%."
Slowly I start to think it is satire ...

The finacial capitalism of the western states has gone so fragile that it wouldn't survive a total lock-down of it's economy for a day. No reserves, all is optimized for profit.
hello sir Greenhorn, I hope you're fine.

Not only in the beginning, well, slave and underage labor still exists, you cannot express an opinion against the communist party, to do business you must be blessed by the communist party or you will go bankrupt, the freedom of the press that happens in the USA it doesn't happen in other countries. I would not dare to speak ill of Xi but Western leaders are permitted.

Regarding NATO, we must remember the counterpart, the Warsaw pact.
When an exalted Iranian kills more than 200 Americans it is carnival, but when an exalted one is killed it is a reason for war. Trump imposed sanctions on Brazilian metal and being Brazilian understood the reason. George Soros is one of the owners of Vale, a metal exporting company.

Trump wanted to build borders, made the economy grow while there is a recession across the rest of the world, created work, made the currency appreciate against others. Some people may not like his personality, I suppose he will be re-elected instead of changing the constitution to stay in power.
Trump has not "forced" anyone. People must choose whether they die of disease or starvation; the choice is ours. Japan and South Korea did not stop and came out of the crisis well. The elderly group are the most susceptible, but if young people create antibodies against the virus they will be immune, just see the more than 100,000 people healed.

I see people criticizing capitalism but they forget that any other ideology needs money, capitalism to survive.
Adam Smith says that a dog cannot split a bone in equal parts with another dog; the property of the human being. Then he comments on coins, I mean, sugar, salt, ox being used as coins. But how to measure these resources? How much salt should I earn in exchange for an ox? Hence the need for non-perishable exchange mechanisms such as metal. Again, a gram of brass or copper may not interfere much but a gram of gold or silver can make a difference; from here we entered into the creation of the mint coin House and started to move away from the weight of the metal to the amount that the metal symbolically represents. What makes me conservative is knowing that there are workers and workers. One worker can be better than another, they are not all the same. One can produce 1 nail a day while the other 20 nails a day.
The fault is not in capitalism, I see it fair by nature. The fault lies with the speculators. As early as 1800, people only coated common stones with gold to try to circumvent the system; it is on the side of the human being. Nowadays, they borrow money in a country like Japan where inflation is close to 0% and inject it into emerging countries. They are not investing in the country, but in the country's risk; an example is Brazil 4 years ago with interest of 12.5%. Who will work to pay? The people as we know. Who will receive, the speculator; hence they place the blame on the rich rather than the government for not containing inflation.
The State only exists because we pay taxes, fees. Liberals say tax is illegal, it is theft. I partially agree because, on the other hand, I prefer a minimal state instead of an inflated state or zero state as other ideologies defend.

It is easy to create a problem and then come up with the solution. It is the government that needs us to survive, not the opposite. There are kind rich people just as there are evil riches; the reverse is true for the poor as well.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on March 31, 2020, 03:14:52 AM
SEAT (car manufacturer) focuses on manufacturing respirators with the adapted motor of the windscreen wiper.

https://youtu.be/BT8dWtS-v5M
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on March 31, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
LOCK STEP: BLUEPRINT FOR A ROCKEFELLER WORLD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxa8xo9iug0

Todd Starnes Shows us the NY war zone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmmpkynohCM

War zone in Germany
https://www.bitchute.com/video/zcF2o4J2YeT3/
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on March 31, 2020, 10:11:54 PM
The only thing we are missing now is jack booted pigz goose stepping down the main street with their machine guns in hand.  :thdn:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 01, 2020, 12:21:32 AM
War zone in Germany
https://www.bitchute.com/video/zcF2o4J2YeT3/

The Financial Times is part of the conspiration, see how they fake graphs (https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest)

Not to mention the Catholic Church, with all these fake stories about churches full of dead bodies :cool:
(https://statics.cedscdn.it/photos/MED/86/88/5138688_Coronavirus_Emergency_in.jpg)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 01, 2020, 01:15:29 AM
Have you compared the numbers with 2018?
Why were the churches empty then and full now?
Do you believe the churches?
Why doesn't the Vatican help the Italian and Spanish people with their great wealth?

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 01, 2020, 01:34:14 AM
> Why doesn't the Vatican help the Italians with their great wealth?
Yeah, great question. Most of the priests I have met seemed like good people, but believers to the point of death, I think only one. As for the anti-pope, how scammer.

At this point I can come to believe anything. My government seems to have banned autopsies, causing many covid deaths to drop from official lists. It may be for fear of the number of complaints that will rain on them. I hope they take them all where they deserve.

As the official data is not credible. In the best of cases, surely the tests that are performed should not be very reliable in stressful situations.

Since we cannot arrive at an absolute truth, we will have to trust the probabilities. It does not seem very probable that all the governments of the world have been deceived, but it is possible that possible that a simple influenza has been combined with a new type of coronavirus. If I remember correctly last year, hospitals were already complaining that they were reaching the ICU limit in flu campaigns, when covid was still unknown. Maybe it took just one more push to uncover the thunder box.

I do not know anyone around me affected by covid, but I have spoken to people who work in hospitals and it seems that they are quite saturated.

What seems clear is that the different governments acted negligently, if only to act against a pandemic of hysteria. It also seems clear that the economic blow is going to be brutal. If in the face of a pandemic we act with medieval graconian measures, we will obtain medieval famines. By the way, it is already being recognized at the official level, although the contagion may decline in the summer, it may strengthen again in the autumn, in the new influenza campaign. Shall we then go into caves?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 01, 2020, 01:49:00 AM
The Chinese numbers are far too low to be credible, it's propaganda (https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3871594).

The Italian death count is too low, too, because many people die at home without being tested afterwards. How much this affects the figures is difficult to estimate, probably not that much because only a few hospitals are at the point of refusing people.

The Italian case count is definitely too low, as demonstrated by the 10% mortality rate. It could be a factor 10 higher, but again, nobody knows. There seems to be a consensus (should I say: a dominating opinion?) that the real death rate is around 1...1.5%. Given that the virus will eventually spread to 60...80% of the population, that means (1.25*0.70/100*pop) 525,000 victims in Italy, 408,000 in Spain but only 150,000 in the Netherlands. Lucky you, Marinus :thumbsup:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 01, 2020, 02:03:51 AM
> that the real death rate is around 1...1.5%
Yeah, that was I didn't understand about the "miracle" of Germany. I think that those countries with more than 2-3% of mortality rate is due to very highes countageon cases. The key seems to have been to stop the entrance, do many tests to isolate those affected. Still, since we are talking about a chaotic system, it can escape from everywhere. I am seeing that the death rate in Germany is rising little by little, slowly, but gradually. Probably after a certain rate it will definitely escape.

In the case of the Netherlands, with an 8.25% of mortality rate, surely the cases of contagion are much higher than the official ones.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 01, 2020, 02:09:21 AM
Don't know how it is in your countries, but in mine 99% of the news broadcasts is corona corona corona.
Every talk show and late night show is 100% corona corona corona.
Is there no other news?
Questionable virologists explaining conflicting messages, it's like watching a freak show.

Why are there so many American soldiers in Europe?
You don't know? You didn't get it from the news?

The 30,000 U.S. soldiers, who “will spread through the European region,” are in fact exempted from the preventive COVID-19 regulations that apply to civilians.
The assurance given by the U.S. Army in Europe that “we are monitoring the Coronavirus [COVID-19]” and that “our forces are in good health” is enough.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/30000-u-s-soldiers-sent-into-europe-without-masks/5706084

Remember Merkel shaking as a leaf on several occasions in the news broadcasts? Stress-syndrome?
Think, the low numbers in Germany....
The country expands restrictions on social interaction as Chancellor Merkel goes into quarantine.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIgJLccCK-4

What's going on in the world, smells a bit fishy, don't you think?

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 01, 2020, 02:25:58 AM
 :biggrin: -> Lucky you, Marinus :thumbsup:

[Propaganda]
It's a lot worse in the Netherlands only 253 recovered. ( a few days ago only 2 )
1.040 deaths
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
[/Propaganda]
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 01, 2020, 02:53:54 AM
Here is much the same: everything coronavirus, as before the 8m was the opposite. Everything has been made so bad that many people start with conspiration suppositions. Perhaps the answer is that here we have a political system that is so corrupt and idologically beveled, with people who enter office only because of their level of flattery that the rest came shot.

We already have almost as many cases as Italy with less population.

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 01, 2020, 08:52:26 AM
Financial Times have changed their graph (https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest), now they start with "200 cases per week". Interesting. Not much different, though, from the previous one, which was "day zero = 10th death case" :cool:

Below another view. Note the last column, and compare it to the FT graph. Belgium and France are doing well :thumbsup:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 02, 2020, 06:38:28 AM
More good news? Citizen reporters go & do what the media won't!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pIMD1enwd4&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jack on April 03, 2020, 09:38:23 PM
https://youtu.be/fYKcLd8zvOc
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 03, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
There are images of the emergencies empty, which I find alarming or at least strange, no one breaks a leg anymore? I do not think that the impact of the coronavirus is a fake, where I see the problem is the lack of images, supposedly so as not to alarm society, but I rather think that it is to save the ass of politicians. The level of problems of the politicians who are managing this issue is directly proportional to the problem caused by the coronavirus, hence their interest in hiding images and data. The really important thing is not to show images of empty emergencies, but images of ICUs and that hospitals have turned ICUs into practically all plants.

I am still amazed at the lack of foresight. Should we assume that the problem caused by the coronavirus will end this month? Maybe this summer? Exactly when will this problem end and what is being done to alleviate and combat it if possible?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jack on April 03, 2020, 10:55:49 PM
in case someone who watched the video linked above wants to see the mentioned magazine https://ia801002.us.archive.org/28/items/37AsterixAndTheChariotRace/37%20-%20Asterix%20and%20the%20Chariot%20Race.pdf see page 14
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 04, 2020, 12:10:19 AM
Mossad officer describes covert global battle to obtain ventilators at all costs

https://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-officer-describes-covert-global-battle-to-obtain-ventilators-at-all-costs/
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 04, 2020, 07:23:40 PM
Here confinement is carried out in a different way. A community of neighbors playing "veo veo", is a child's game in which one says "I see I see, a little thing, with a little letter ..." and the others have to find out what little thing is the one that begins with that little letter.  :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEV6JKGRRxM
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on April 04, 2020, 08:17:25 PM
We are in Gestapo style lockdown at the moment and while some of it is over the top, at least our prime minister got off his arse fast enough after his phukup with the bush fires and blocked much of the incoming source of people from overseas and so far the numbers are OK but there is still a risk that those in society that are not diagnosed and are carriers can still infect many people.

I fully support the lockdown and social distancing but they have gone off the deep end fining a little old lady sitting on a park bench by herself wearing a face mask and a number of other stupid restrictions.

A guy in his small fishing boat by himself is now breaking the law as is a person walking along a beach by themselves. There is more to the rabid level of restrictions, politicians covering their arse and a police force drunk with their new powers targeting the vulnerable for money.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Mikl__ on April 04, 2020, 10:55:06 PM
quarantine and self-isolation
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUoH1c-WkAI6BCY?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 04, 2020, 11:16:47 PM
We are still receiving immigrants from Africa. It is still a taboo matter, ideological.

https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2020/03/30/5e81a647fdddffaf928b45b7.html
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 05, 2020, 01:31:26 AM
quarantine and self-isolation
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUoH1c-WkAI6BCY?format=jpg&name=small)
Isolation is not the same as social distance. This is propaganda that they throw to us.
In Brazil when we are very hungry we say, "I am starving" (I'm dying of hungry) in a raw way, holodomor heritage.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on April 06, 2020, 02:08:55 AM
Jochen,its report on the news that Robots help sick people in Italy
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 06, 2020, 09:09:33 AM
Yes :tongue:

They need them urgently, about 70 doctors died already

https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech-news/2020/04/04/covid-19-italys-doctors-look-for-help-from-sleek-new-robots
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 06, 2020, 04:58:46 PM
That's quite interesting  :thumbsup:


In Japan they theorize about a third way of contagion that they had not explained to us: micro droplets that remain suspended in the air.

https://as.com/deporteyvida/2020/04/01/videos/1585766345_814286.html?omnil=mod-act
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: six_L on April 08, 2020, 12:50:54 AM
At the end of 2019, many people treat SARS-CoV2 as an influenz.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 08, 2020, 04:01:33 AM
The Boy Who Cried Wolf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf). If I remember correctly, there have already been several infectious diseases in China that have not spread and about which the CDC raised the alarm. So this time it seems that nobody paid much attention. To this we add an extraordinarily ideologically biased society, of which not even scientists escape. Et voilà.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on April 08, 2020, 05:12:46 PM
Yes :tongue:

They need them urgently, about 70 doctors died already

https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech-news/2020/04/04/covid-19-italys-doctors-look-for-help-from-sleek-new-robots
too bad they couldnt upload 70 doctors concius into the robots before the died
then they would have 70 "immortal" MD's
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 08, 2020, 10:51:02 PM
The government tries to avoid images of the pandemic. Due to the saturation of the morgues, new provisional morgues have been enabled, until today we have not seen any image of them:

https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2020/04/07/5e8cb73521efa0b1668b46a3.html
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 09, 2020, 11:03:24 PM
In Indonesia, those who break social exclusion and go out on the streets can be killed by the military. Order given by the representative.
In the Netherlands they stole (Singer Laren) a painting by Van Gogh. In other countries, stores are being sealed, examples are potterybarn, west elm, hermes, louis vuitton, gap, kendra scott, sephora, prada, balenciaga, dior, valentino, ... . If the elite of the elites are already removing valuable products and sealing stores, it is better to us prepare, get ready.
In Taiwan, I mean, the World Health Organization, I mean, to avoid censorship I’ll say that China is cool, silk route is cool.
How will it be after? Europe is not united, tourism will decrease, recession will increase, social control will increase, real currencies will lose to virtual currencies, ... . Arm wrestling between Russia and Saudi Arabia in relation to oil. In the USA they will implant more health and less freedom. People will give up their freedoms in exchange for fallacies.
Transhumanism, transmutation, Artificial Intelligence. Capitalism is not ending but taking another form.
When there is no religion, the Gods will be men. I say now because in the future I would not dare to speak ill of emperors and kings, I mean, God. New world order rulez.
UN, UNESCO, WHO,..., I did not vote for any of those who are there.
The good thing is that there is no more global warming :).
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 09, 2020, 11:46:56 PM
> How will it be after?
This is a good debate.

Who will not run to get vaccinated against covid when there is a vaccine on the market? What kind of garbage will they inject us with? Will there be an option not to be vaccinated? Here it is said that the government intends to put all those asymptomatic infected in a kind of gulags (https://www.elconfidencialdigital.com/articulo/defensa/gobierno-ha-pedido-lista-cuarteles-acojan-asintomaticos-coronavirus/20200407222107142484.html) and that it intends to control our mobiles to know where we are (https://www.elconfidencial.com/tecnologia/2020-03-23/coronavirus-moviles-telecomunicaciones-antenas-covid19_2508268/).

As for the economic, instead of cleaning the entire network of political thievery existing with thousands of useless public offices and all kinds of subsidies to groups in their environment and make a debt relief already clearly unpayable, they intend to ask for more money from Europe to maintain all this shed, that will have to return and ruin us even more. I hope that the rest of Europe will not access to Eurobonds if they do not want to be carried away by these useless people.

The rest of Europe also has its shame to cover, there are links that I even dare not put here.

As I see, there are many people who are still going out on the balconies to applaud the "health workers", actually the government, convinced that Daddy State is going to provide them with everything they need.

As a Chinese proverb says, I see a future full of emotions.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 10, 2020, 01:24:51 AM
The coronavirus has unexpected side effects: The U.S. government desperately needs COBOL coders (https://www.govtech.com/computing/As-Unemployment-Claims-Spike-New-Jersey-Seeks-COBOL-Coders.html) :tongue:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 01:42:43 AM
The world is now ruled by unelected morons.
Fear is the weapon used in never working models.
First they tried to collapse the economy in letting us believe in Climate Change Protection.
That wasn't going fast enough.
Now Covid-19 is used to scare the hell out of us, again with failing models. ( they are adjusted every day..... )

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/why-did-fauci-cheer-use-untested-drug-coronavirus-2013-now-hes-skeptical

This drugs-combo seems to be working for many people.
Hydroxychloroquine 200mg 1 pill x 2 day 5 days
Azithromycin 500mg 1 pill x day 5 days
Zinc Sulphate 200mg 1 pill x day 5 days

Stages of communist takeovers- Yuri Bezmenov (Leftists are useful IDIOTS)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfvXwuZ-bok&feature=youtu.be

Watch it and understand what is going on in the last 30 years in the world.

Do some investigation in the WHO UN EU and especially Bill Gates and his vaccination programs.

Ask yourself why all Covid-19 / 5G discussions and youtube movies are censored.

https://vimeo.com/405380949?activityReferer=1

Is COVID-19 really an exosome and not a virus???
https://youtu.be/roDGPZMev7s

The last step in the take-over strategy is "Normalizing":

Prepare for these propaganda terms: "New Normal" and "Normalizing" will be used in the future by the Goverments and MSM to take your freedom away!!!  ( see the Yuri Bezmenov interview )
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 03:31:10 AM
Quote
Ask yourself why all Covid-19 5G discussions and youtube movies are censored.

https://vimeo.com/405380949?activityReferer=1

Also removed from vimeo!!

Here is the direct link, watch it quick because it is removed all over the web.....
https://londonreal.tv/the-coronavirus-conspiracy-how-covid-19-will-seize-your-rights-destroy-our-economy-david-icke/

They don't want this in the news!
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 10, 2020, 03:58:57 AM
> Also removed from vimeo!!
that's amazing. Numerous youtubers are being censored, and even the government has created a ministry of truth called "Maldito bulo / damn hoax" to officially discredit any "invalid" information.

> 5G
I had already heard about this topic. Today there are several hypotheses and this is one of them. The thing is, there is no way to openly discuss it. To approach a problem you must first understand it. Official censorship does not allow it. As every production system has stopped, advertising revenue has fallen sharply. Recently the biggest means of disinformation in my country asked for financial help from the government, which watered them with 15 million euros. It goes without saying that any type of information not allowed will be transmitted to the public.

The last link cannot be seen without a subscription, but I imagine what it is about.

The fact is that there is no debate, there is no free information, liberties are curtailed and it seems that it is focused on an economic destruction of which most people do not seem to be aware, it seems that everyone expects the state to contribute all its needs.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 04:03:23 AM
Quote
The last link cannot be seen without a subscription, but I imagine what it is about.

You can view it by entering a valid email address.... I did  :badgrin:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 10, 2020, 04:09:44 AM
Oh what a failure  :biggrin:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 10, 2020, 04:14:00 AM
What a coincide... David Icke... the "expert" in coronavirus have same name as the "expert" in climate change!
 :biggrin:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 04:16:31 AM
They are all from 1 source................  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 04:31:22 AM
People who give in to tyrants will lose more than life and good.
Then the light goes out......

Are You Prepared For This? If Not, Start Living Your Life Today.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 10, 2020, 05:03:05 AM
As a related fact, recently the video of a Cuban youtuber who had to emigrate from his country out of necessity, has had quite an impact. It turns out that a Chilean actress, it seems that a fervent pro-communist activist, recently went on vacation (I think) to Cuba, but it turns out that with the outbreak of the covid, Cuba closes borders and, suddenly, she discovers the shortcomings that are lived there and makes a video, desperate, asking for help to get her out of there. The Cuban youtuber comments it indignantly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b4giUyqXL8
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 10, 2020, 05:30:25 AM
What a coincide... David Icke... the "expert" in coronavirus have same name as the "expert" in climate change!
 :biggrin:

Hey, don't write such stuff openly. You must encrypt such messages, as the NSA is watching this forum very closely :cool:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 05:43:45 AM
What a coincide... David Icke... the "expert" in coronavirus have same name as the "expert" in climate change!
 :biggrin:

Hey, don't write such stuff openly. You must encrypt such messages, as the NSA is watching this forum very closely :cool:

The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.  :cool: :cool:

"When governments fear citizens, there is freedom,
 when citizens fear governments, there is tyranny."

BTW,
THE CORONAVIRUS CONSPIRACY: HOW COVID-19 WILL SEIZE YOUR RIGHTS & DESTROY OUR ECONOMY
is on bitchute as well,
https://www.bitchute.com/video/H4W7FwBy0Ukh/

 :biggrin: British Regulator Ofcom Launches Investigation Into David Icke Episode Aired On UK Television.  :biggrin:

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 07:57:42 AM
Here we go,

Year 2022 -> Commission proposal for a common vaccination card/passport for EU citizens.

https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/vaccination/docs/2019-2022_roadmap_en.pdf

Sorry sir, you missed your vaccination, you are not allowed to travel by plane train boat bus........
Sorry sir, you missed your vaccination, we have to end your contract.
Sorry sir, computer says NO!
etc.
etc.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 10, 2020, 08:25:05 AM
As I have read, a law has been passed in Denmark to make the covid vaccine compulsory

https://misesreport.com/dinamarca-aprueba-ley-que-permite-la-vacunacion-forzada-de-coronavirus/
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 10, 2020, 08:56:49 AM
caballero
Free will over vaccines is ours even though we know we will be guinea pigs.
Years ago I came back to apologize when I mentioned about gulags in another topic, it seems that I was right.
Social control: I feel sorry for those who will only be cattle and will be marked. First came the covid, then the economy, then what we are talking about here.
Some say that the mark of the beast is the insertion of chips to monitor health or ... . Well, I'm not sure, but Elon Musk is ahead. A Russian billionaire who has a project similar to the Matrix film, to send our mind to a device, is to wish for eternal life.

Siekmanski
I have seen a talk about drugs that can fight covid. The problem is bureaucratic and freedom.
I had already seen the video about Bezmenov years ago, very informative. I agree, they are already programming the world on how it will be 30 years from now while we discuss the present. Antonio Gramsci is one of the authors on advertising, I mean, social control through the arts, education and media advertising.
When we are laypeople, we believe in moments only to understand that everything has already been said in the past. Orwell and the animal revolution, I mean, Bill Gates. Secret societies like skull and bones.
The link on the vimeo website does not exist, it must have been removed (I will see). Do you have knowledge in this field? I have listen that 5G can alter our metabolism, RNA, causing our bodies to produce more antibodies than necessary. Another one I heard was about the connection between 5G and covid. This proceed or is it a deception?

caballero
The so-called "fake news".
I heard that covid is doing a lot of damage in Europe due to the 5G radiation already being implemented. High frequency but shorter distances means more towers. I seen a parched and dead tree after a 5G antenna was installed. At the moment I just watch.
For now, covid 19 is causing fewer deaths in Brazil compared to Italy, about 3 times less by the projections provided. You are more technological than us.
I see a Chinese woman doing a live and throwing a dark liquid in a picture of Xi while wandering the street. Police officers 4 hours later found her at her home, it was the last time, probably dead. Have you seen Xi's story? When the system is controlling or people revolt or become the best applicators of the system (mao tse tung). In the case of Xi, he initially rebelled but then became fervent to the point of denouncing his own father.

One of the mistakes I see was giving Asia a lot of confidence (EurAsia project), they could have invested in Latin America that at least still has Western culture. Now it's time for the harvest.

Siekmanski
Yes, I had seen parts of this video translated, thank you.

A member of this forum posted about Asterisk and corona. I would like to say that it came to me translated by another source.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on April 10, 2020, 09:15:25 AM
It seems to be a trial run for the new world order police state where you have goons with guns goosestepping down the street, drunk with power and indiscriminately sh*tting on whoever they like. What these morons can't see is the potential for insurrection if populations get pissed off enough. Apparently India is already starting to have these types of problems as are some other countries where the health problems are out of control.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 10:15:21 AM
@mineiro
No I don't have knowledge in that field but, we have to be alert when the Governments don't allow discussing it and forcing it up on us.
The 5G protocol is not tested for human safety, very strange...
High powered 5G 95 GHz is already in use by the army to control crowds, so....
Active Denial System (ADS). The ADS works by firing a high-powered beam of 95 GHz waves at a target.
5G 60 GHz will penetrate the human body much deeper than 95 GHz. ( the power level is a big factor in this of course )

The governments ( and their "Scientists" ) can't be trusted, we need more trusted sources for info and force our governments to stop implementation for now.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 10, 2020, 12:34:00 PM
I love conspiration theories :thumbsup:

One hundred Italian doctors have died of coronavirus (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/italian-doctors-died-coronavirus-200409211435347.html)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 04:55:16 PM
I love conspiration theories :thumbsup:

One hundred Italian doctors have died of coronavirus (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/italian-doctors-died-coronavirus-200409211435347.html)

Conspiracy?

What do you expect if you go to war without enough protective gear.
Fact-check: How many of them were old retired doctors?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 10, 2020, 06:55:04 PM
When the government behaves erratically, there is no choice but to theorize about real possibilities. It is possible that 5G affects but it seems that nobody dares to do a serious study about it, as it is also possible that whoever does not want China to have that technology launches such a hypothesis. Who knows.

What continues to amaze me is that there are hundreds of billions of euros in each country to maintain the captive vote of people and even today there are no resources for masks in pharmacies, let alone staff sanitary. I really don't understand, and we've been dealing with this problem for several months. Therefore, the hypothesis arises: is it really negligence or a social design?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 10, 2020, 07:55:31 PM
The misconception of 5G is people think it's mobile-phone technology.
The future looks like this:
Camera face recognition with directional microphones with 5G transceivers and satellites covering every inch of the world.
We don't need a mobile-phone anymore.
Just shout "UBER" and the camera identifies who you are and an uber taxi will pick you up.
This sounds cool but FREEDOM will be a thing from the past because the system tracks every move you take.
Guess who will be the owners of this system?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 11, 2020, 01:08:39 AM
Several countries have stopped producing basic objects and accessories to import at a cheaper price, perhaps leaving quality aside.
What I suppose is that this will happen again, less external dependence on basic products, generation of jobs seen as less praised.
In Brazil we are creating masks ourselves, several seamstresses doing the work, the difficult thing is the social immobility to sell. Bigger problems are adaptations of factories to create respirators, it takes time, but, again, global social immobility in ports prevents resources from arriving and being sent.
So, greater nationalism can happen after the pandemic, more borders. It is the backfire of the globalists.

People can no longer stand the hysteria of traditional media, they no longer believe in the facts presented. A dragon has invested in two television stations in my country, and as if that weren't enough, CNN arrived here, the el país newspaper with massive attacks on those who think differently. The BBC playing on both sides. Where's Fox? In the absence we are informing ourselves with truths, solitary works by micro journalistic companies that show the naked truth, generate debates that the press hides.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 11, 2020, 02:30:23 AM
> this will happen again
I can't see a possible future right now. Economists speak of a post-war economic downturn, in an interconnected economy like the current one, no matter which country has performed best, everyone will fall, the difference will be in who will recover first and best. More protectionism? May be.

It is unclear when the virus will leave us, it may be that when our body becomes immunized, after several years. What shall we do in the meantime, remain confined?

Thinking about it, it is the ideal situation for any moron with dictatorial pretensions. That people do not fend for themselves but depend on the state to survive. We will see the result of destroying capital, as the left always advocated, curiously it is possible that they are the favored ones.

If "el país" is the Spanish mass disinformation paper, I highly recommend avoid such shit paper. Here is the same, either you look at alternative media, or you stay in matrix.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 11, 2020, 03:14:42 AM
It is unclear when the virus will leave us, it may be that when our body becomes immunized, after several years.
When more than 60% of population become inmunized everything change. Even if inmunity is weak. From that point you can expect outbreaks become random but more localized. The exact behavior depends of so many things, but one very important is what animals other than humans can preserve virus wild cycles (cycles were no humans are affected).
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: TimoVJL on April 11, 2020, 03:35:18 PM
Hopefully world learn a lesson, healthcare have to be controlled.
Every country should have own resources, not depend of companies like 3M, where a puppet president can control stealing, shame USA.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on April 11, 2020, 05:51:12 PM
The misconception of 5G is people think it's mobile-phone technology.
The future looks like this:
Camera face recognition with directional microphones with 5G transceivers and satellites covering every inch of the world.
We don't need a mobile-phone anymore.
Just shout "UBER" and the camera identifies who you are and an uber taxi will pick you up.
This sounds cool but FREEDOM will be a thing from the past because the system tracks every move you take.
Guess who will be the owners of this system?
just a matter of time,when you shout "FREEDOM" in any language ,a car will pick you up with some covert organization and drive you to a reprogramming facility to delete everything you know about freedom :tongue: :badgrin:

also there are very dangerous freqency,50hz that makes humans get stuck in electric accidents,damage or die because that is the freqency that muscles respond to,maybe possible to research to get right freqency that harms viruses

also some filipines celebrating crucifixation, got cancelled due to covid,think if black death or some other plague had been 31 AD,all bibles would had a very different story
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on April 11, 2020, 06:03:24 PM
It is unclear when the virus will leave us, it may be that when our body becomes immunized, after several years.
When more than 60% of population become inmunized everything change. Even if inmunity is weak. From that point you can expect outbreaks become random but more localized. The exact behavior depends of so many things, but one very important is what animals other than humans can preserve virus wild cycles (cycles were no humans are affected).
every year there comes a new flue that has mutated since the last one,so you can get flu vaccine if you want,so there is no guarantee its gonna be a one time virus
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on April 11, 2020, 06:06:27 PM
Hopefully world learn a lesson, healthcare have to be controlled.
Every country should have own resources, not depend of companies like 3M, where a puppet president can control stealing, shame USA.
I have no problem with funny puppet president like "spitting image" tvshow :tongue: :badgrin:

I hope there also comes out good things out of this crisis,people maybe not feel they need to have materialistic latest smart phone every year,maybe its easier to work from home when not need to be in office everyday works out
maybe more people learned to use internet,because they had no choice in a lockdown,but that otherwise was living without computers and internet
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 11, 2020, 08:18:00 PM
I believe that, far from learning something, we continue to insist on ideological positions. Despite the fact that Europe does not have large producers of masks or respirators, they can be manufactured, as certain companies, such as SEAT or others, are already doing individually. But why not organize at the European level to try to be more efficient? I suppose it would be more effective than doing each one on their own. We have been for several months now.

Even today we could learn things. It is clear what has been done wrong: allow massive meetings like the 8m in Spain or go to vote in France. But even today I have been observing certain worrying trends, for example Germany started with a case fatality rate of less than 1%, but today it is above 2%. I suppose the lethality of the virus does not change, so why that increase? Is the virus escaping with the measures they are taking?

Instead of censoring ideas on YouTube, for example, it would be better to be able to talk. It is important to know as much as possible about the virus. It seems logical to suppose that 5G may have something to do with it, since its implementation will have to be suspended until we see what to do. Where did it come from? Can you talk about it or not?

There are only taboos in Europe today, so little progress can be made. And the virus doesn't wait for our stupidities
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 11, 2020, 08:26:06 PM
Pedro Cavadas (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Cavadas), a surgeon of reputed international fame already said in an interview before everything exploded that, in his opinion, this virus was more dangerous than people believed. "Nobody creates a great hospital in China in a few days, if it were not." More than logical reasoning.

Well, as it went against what the leftist government and all its media said, they hit him so hard that he did not want to do any more interviews.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on April 11, 2020, 10:31:52 PM
We have been fortunate here in OZ that our prime minister got of his arse fast enough and the government put together a strategy to stop people coming in and put all of the normal measures like social distancing and stopped any form of gatherings and so far the infection curve is flattening. The Kiwis have done very well also with similar and even more restrictive measures. There were a few fiascos with cruise liner passengers being allowed to enter the country untested but they seem to have that under control at the moment but it was one of the triggers that started the infections.

Dozen thyme flie whenya havin phun !
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 11, 2020, 10:41:24 PM
It was what Siekmanski said about hydroxychloroquine. In Brazil we know how to do it and we can distribute it to the world, it is the medicine used for malaria, being ironic, we can save the world. So why can't we do it or use it? The invisible hand of WHO. The brazilian president is in favor, some doctors have treated (I will say illegally) theirselves without needing respirators that are much more expensive. At the beginning the price was R$60 thousand (= ~ 12 thousand dollars), but now some governors are buying for three times the price.

You remember the story; outbreak begins, then it must not be alarmist, then it is not infected from humans to humans, then they can leave the borders open, then it is a pandemic, then China will save the world. Don't worry, they've eaten bats again.
Had the disease been controlled in its own territory, worldwide cases could have decreased by up to 86%.
Making a hospital in 10 days was really surprising, but looking at the hospital from the inside few did! Hmm, they have already dismantled the hospital !.
WHO is now suggesting a global health system. In Brazil they implanted the unique health system years ago, it only cures a broken arm and diseases that are easy to treat, I say this because my father died of cirrhosis while my brother from intoxication in this much acclaimed hospital system. My mother operated from the heart on a private system and is alive. Compare!!!.
19861984, Animal Farm, Orwell.
Plato cave.

edit-1986 to 1984
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 11, 2020, 11:37:04 PM
In the Netherlands we have a factory that produces Chloroquine, it is heavily guarded.
The Dutch are not allowed to use this form of treatment?????? I wonder why?

1 doctor healed 8 of 8 patients and was told to stop the treatment immediately or else.....  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 11, 2020, 11:57:16 PM
In the Netherlands we have a factory that produces Chloroquine, it is heavily guarded.
The Dutch are not allowed to use this form of treatment?????? I wonder why?
1 doctor healed 8 of 8 patients and was told to stop the treatment immediately or else.....  :rolleyes:
I am sorry to inform you, but the Netherlands cannot save the world, nor Europe, nor the Netherlands itself.

Good news does not sell newspapers, only alarmists and bad news. How to implant fear in people with prosperous news?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 12, 2020, 05:51:16 AM
Who told you we have FREEDOM, not anymore!
Freedom of speech is gone, Google Facebook and Twitter are deleting nonstop....

Governments hacking channels with info they want you not to know.
For example the London Real TV webpage which broadcasted the David Icke interview.
https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugxi4OFMYERiytZ8Mbp4AaABCQ

Beate Bahner erklärt Shutdown mit sofortiger Wirkung für beendet.
Beate Bahner declares lockdown to be ended, effective immediately.

Removed from the internet by the German government and Google.
But we can get it back from Google cache.  :skrewy:
 
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tdinFtnc5eEJ:www.beatebahner.de/+&cd=1&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl

https://politikstube.com/beate-bahner-klagt-gegen-corona-verordnung-jetzt-droht-ihr-der-staatsschutz/
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 12, 2020, 10:33:28 PM
1st documentary movie on the origin of CCP virus, Tracking Down the Origin of the Wuhan Coronavirus.

01:55 Part 1 The Story of The Seafood Market
09:34 Part 2 The Mysterious Gene Sequence
17:47 Part 3 The Discoveries of Dr. Shi Zhengli
28:50 Part 4 The Secret of the Wuhan P4 Laboratory
43:43 Part 5 Facing The Pandemic

https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 12, 2020, 11:08:30 PM
To this day it seems quite clear that it came out of Lab-IV in Wuhan. What does not seem so clear is how or why. Was it just an escape? Who loses and who wins? What interests can be involved? They are very interesting questions with no clear answers at the moment, one can only speculate.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Vortex on April 12, 2020, 11:36:51 PM
Another question : Are there any mathematical models predicting the properties of the future virus generations changing with mutations?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 12, 2020, 11:59:12 PM
I think we are in an information battle. Each government is interested in having the least number of infected / dead, so it is feared that they will hide data, at least here it seems that is the case. The truth is that I do not see any information campaign at the institutional level and without data it is difficult to know how this virus works and what predictions there may be. I don't know if there is more informative clarity elsewhere. Yesterday I was watching a report on covid in Germany (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGRU63xKskA) and someone said that we have to start assuming that this is a long-term battle. That is a data that is intuited, but that nobody says, at least around here, it only talks about flattening the curve and that together we are going to achieve it.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 13, 2020, 12:08:23 AM
You still believe in the models?
They tend to fail miserably the last 30 years.
If they can be made by humans than it will be done. ( in the video they talk about this type of bioengineering )
As history proves all the time.

In the meantime WHO is licking China's boots and are hiding information.
Big Corporation is afraid losing their interests in China.
Big Pharma is OK with the situation.
Bill Gates is smiling from ear to ear in talk shows promoting his vaccines and citizen control ideology.
This situation is a Globalists wet dream, will they finally win, or did they already?
Who will be the first president of the New Communist Technocratic World Order?

For now, I'm more afraid of the social consequences in the near future.
https://youtu.be/dxC_D_qiQmw
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 13, 2020, 12:21:10 AM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WPhLO8X4NSQ/UqtE8sZqlpI/AAAAAAAAD-w/XFMpxaPjcvg/s1600/escada-714719.jpg)
WHO
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Vortex on April 13, 2020, 12:22:55 AM
Quote
You still believe in the models?

When you create a mathematical model, you don't do it for belief. You do it rather to represent natural phenomenons on the paper \ computer screen with mathematical expressions.

Quote
One thing I have learned in a long life: That all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike — and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

Albert Einstein

Quote
They tend to fail miserably the last 30 years.

That's very normal as science is advancing by repetitive trials and failures. Scientific studies should always be guided by honesty. Plus,no public relations should be involved :

Quote
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool.

Richard Feynman


Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 13, 2020, 12:28:13 AM
Models can be bend in a desired direction.
And in the meantime sociopaths control the world.

(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/47/a8/53/47a853064d52266cffa1f6c5f558249b.jpg)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Vortex on April 13, 2020, 12:36:16 AM
Quote
Models can be bend in a desired direction.
And in the meantime sociopaths control the world.

True. Models can be manipulated. This is why dishonest science or scientific dishonesty is very dangerous. Politics and public relations should be kept far away from science but the socipaths are ruling the planet, that's right. Sadly, beside the very long 13.8 billion years of the Universe, we are yet very small entities.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 13, 2020, 12:37:25 AM
Well, by definition of chaotic system it is that you cannot predict the future, only approximate with probabilities and data, and there comes a point that something changes and takes all the prediction to the trash. But something will have to be done and not leave everything to providence. At least here it seems to me that the government understands the curve as an entry point and an exit point, without understanding that there may be outbreaks. I think that the best option would be to have a good defense system to go out to work and not expect that this will be solved in 1 or 2 months. Hell, we are in the 21st century, we can do more than just shut ourselves up at home like in the Middle Ages.

I did not understand much of the video, but it is logical to think that if the economy falls as expected, there will be revolts, assaults on businesses, insecurity in the streets.

> Models can be bend in a desired direction. And in the meantime sociopaths control the world.
Yes.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 13, 2020, 01:04:49 AM
In India, if you go out on the avenues you may be beaten by police. Again social control, deprivation of freedom.
I read that by the end of the year they want to implement cryptocurrency massively. The end of petrodollar(oildollar) and gold. Now only numbers generated by machines, and if you do not comply with the rules you may have your balance reversed momentarily or permanently.
The Brazilian edition of the newspaper el País has the title: Global crises demand global solutions: is it time to create a world constitution?
I wonder if it will have the "right to come and go" assured.
Sars, mers, covid, ..., all coming from the same place after economic sanctions or embargoes. It is not a coincidence.
I had already noticed the censorship during the last presidential elections in Brazil. Now I hope you understand.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on April 13, 2020, 04:43:13 PM
You still believe in the models?
They tend to fail miserably the last 30 years.
If they can be made by humans than it will be done. ( in the video they talk about this type of bioengineering )
As history proves all the time.

In the meantime WHO is licking China's boots and are hiding information.
Big Corporation is afraid losing their interests in China.
Big Pharma is OK with the situation.
Bill Gates is smiling from ear to ear in talk shows promoting his vaccines and citizen control ideology.
This situation is a Globalists wet dream, will they finally win, or did they already?
Who will be the first president of the New Communist Technocratic World Order?

For now, I'm more afraid of the social consequences in the near future.
https://youtu.be/dxC_D_qiQmw
sounds its time to dress up for curfew ala "v for vendetta" :badgrin:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on April 13, 2020, 04:54:49 PM

When you create a mathematical model, you don't do it for belief. You do it rather to represent natural phenomenons on the paper \ computer screen with mathematical expressions.

can as well create a corona fractal and simulate its growth in the very old retro "game of life" pixels near each other with rules when "population" grows when there is spare room,and dies out if too populated,named game of life and run superfast huge simulation on Computer :tongue:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: AW on April 13, 2020, 05:00:46 PM
can as well create a corona fractal and simulate its growth in the very old retro "game of life" pixels near each other with rules when "population" grows when there is spare room,and dies out if too populated,named game of life and run superfast huge simulation on Computer :tongue:
You can even ask details from John Horton Conway (when you find him in the other Universe), the inventor of Game of Life, who has just died from coronavirus.  :icon_idea:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on April 13, 2020, 07:27:52 PM
Models are useful in their context, a simple mechanism called a "hyper deductive spiral" involves starting with a model then testing it against any known data. After an iteration, you keep tweaking the model and run the tests again. You keep doing this until either the data fits the model OR no amount of fiddling the model fits the data. I have always referred to this technique as "model fitting".

The wheels fall of this very ordinary scientific technique when some moron produces a secret model or one so obscure that it cannot be analysed and with help from the illiterate, do a hard sell on it to produce scare mongering bullsh*t. I wonder what topic that refers to ?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 13, 2020, 08:16:57 PM
Models are useful in their context, a simple mechanism called a "hyper deductive spiral" involves starting with a model then testing it against any known data. After an iteration, you keep tweaking the model and run the tests again. You keep doing this until either the data fits the model OR no amount of fiddling the model fits the data. I have always referred to this technique as "model fitting".

Fond memories  :biggrin:

Did you ever write one? This is from 1991, about 1,000 lines of GfaBasic on an Atari, one year of hard work. It still runs on my machine here, with an emulator obviously.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on April 13, 2020, 10:31:16 PM
Being a bit rusty here, the correct term is "hypothetico deductive spiral". Sketch a model, run it through a set of tests to see if it fits the available data then keep tweaking the model until it either fits or fails.

You will have to forgive me on the example, I went from z80 to x86 with nothing inbetween unless you count my HP 13c.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 14, 2020, 12:04:48 AM
Models are useful in their context, a simple mechanism called a "hyper deductive spiral" involves starting with a model then testing it against any known data. After an iteration, you keep tweaking the model and run the tests again. You keep doing this until either the data fits the model OR no amount of fiddling the model fits the data. I have always referred to this technique as "model fitting".

The wheels fall of this very ordinary scientific technique when some moron produces a secret model or one so obscure that it cannot be analysed and with help from the illiterate, do a hard sell on it to produce scare mongering bullsh*t. I wonder what topic that refers to ?

Being a bit rusty here, the correct term is "hypothetico deductive spiral". Sketch a model, run it through a set of tests to see if it fits the available data then keep tweaking the model until it either fits or fails.

Hi Hutch!

You have a little confusion (like most people have  :rolleyes:).

That model construction method is true for "Technological models", wich objetive is prediction (and/or decision support). Not related at all with Science. You can say that is a "numerical technique"

Science is understanding, not solutions. Technology solve problems, by sucesives approximations (understanding is helpfull for better approximations, but just that).

Regards. HSE.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 14, 2020, 12:40:21 AM
That model construction method is true for "Technological models", wich objetive is prediction (and/or decision support). Not related at all with Science. You can say that is a "numerical technique"

Ok in principle, but there is no clear delimitation between the two. To calibrate a model, you need science. Even the World model used for Limits to Growth, half a century ago, had already a hundred variables. You need a lot of science to do that.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: daydreamer on April 14, 2020, 01:04:01 AM
That model construction method is true for "Technological models", wich objetive is prediction (and/or decision support). Not related at all with Science. You can say that is a "numerical technique"

Ok in principle, but there is no clear delimitation between the two. To calibrate a model, you need science. Even the World model used for Limits to Growth, half a century ago, had already a hundred variables. You need a lot of science to do that.
Does that mean we miss the simplicity several hundred years ago when some Italian came up with very simple model for calculate rabbit population growth?  :tongue: :badgrin:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: nidud on April 14, 2020, 01:08:51 AM
 :biggrin:

In principle you are correct. But it wasn't a car but a bicycle. And he didn't win it in a lottery; it was stolen from him.

https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1249702528377335808
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 14, 2020, 02:06:43 AM
Ok in principle, but there is no clear delimitation between the two.
There is a clear delimitation between both. Very often not so easy to see. You have to search in methodology, sometimes very deep.
 
To calibrate a model, you need science... You need a lot of science to do that.
No JJ. What you need is data. If there is subject understanding, technological model development increase efficiency. But you can fit a model without any understanding (or even totally wrong understanding).

Thinking a little, perhaps you are right in the sense that scientific investigations provide reliable data.
 
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 14, 2020, 02:34:16 AM
When it all started people were looking for the truth. The most accepted account is from Abram.
The truth was taught through learning in religious institutions, which later became education. Ancients sought out philosophers to educate their children, the so-called liberal arts, as opposed to mechanical arts. With the advent of humanism, ..., Luther, education took a different direction and with the industrial revolution, now an organ was needed to educate and care for the children of the workers. From that moment on, education became mandatory and the State or System educated them. Now, non-religious thinkers were born, and the search for the truth faded and became what we know as science.
From revolutions such as freedom (liberalism), equality (socialism) and fraternity (fascism) were born ideologies that influence us today. Afterwards there were cultural revolutions as it is forbidden to forbid in France and the cultural revolution in China. Now the criticism comes at first, leaving the rational side in the background, a divergence from what M.J.Adler proposes. I suppose it creates a superior air in the lines. The problem, turned to the beginning of the text, is when we criticize a criticism because what is at stake are beliefs, ideologies instead of ideals.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 14, 2020, 03:19:49 AM
Quote from: Tomás de Iriarte
Through some bushes,
followed by dogs,
-I won't say ran-,
a rabbit was flying.

From his burrow
a partner came out,
and he said: "Stop,
my friend; what is this?"

"What has to be?" -answer back-;
out of breath I arrive ...
Two rogue greyhounds
are following me. "

"Yes," replies the other,
I see them there ...
But they are not greyhounds. ”
"So what are they?" "Hounds."

"Than? Hounds you say?
Yes, like my grandfather.
Greyhounds and very greyhounds,
well seen I have them. ”

"They are hounds, go,
that you don't understand about that. ”
"They are greyhounds, I tell you."
"I say hounds."

In this dispute,
dogs coming
they get sloppy
my two rabbits.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 14, 2020, 03:26:53 AM
When it all started people were looking for the truth. The most accepted account is from Abram.
You say that in a very interesting way. That was after 1000 BC and correspond to the very beginning of Philosophy development  :thumbsup: Yes, perhaps the Truth was invented at that time.
But sugerence of relativily advanced knowledge are 10 thousands years older. Some people say "magician knowledge" (at first constelations and anual cycles, and later moon cycles, eclipse predictions, etc). And 20 thousands of years before that, rupestre paints sugest some "chamanic knowledge" (perhaps plant and animals cycles and migrations). Some Antropologists think paintings were "teaching tools".
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on April 14, 2020, 04:25:10 AM
Hector,

I guess you see a hypothetico deductive spiral in a different way to me. For any field of enquiry you may have a range of observations, opinions and other theories. Now while opinions and other theories may be less than reliable, if there is a method of making observations or at least testing some of the assertions, you have something to work with.

What you are starting with is a branch of metaphysics and to convert that to physics you have to do enough work at the inductive level to support the basic assertions. Now where we diverge is in whatever the topic may happen to be. Some assertions can neither be verified or falsified so they are in fact trivial (ALA Popper) and this changes over time. The assertion that there were canals on Mars was around for a very long time due to the available range of observations that were available but with landings and orbital photography, it was not true.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 14, 2020, 05:05:39 AM
Some Antropologists think paintings were "teaching tools".
I remember the time machine. It was a device for predicting cycles, such as seasons, in order to save "time" on others, to predict planting and to have more supply, however one nation could prevail over another. The concept of the time machine we have today is different.

Brazilian indians did not have a reliable counting system; if they wanted to represent quantity 1, they would emit a sound phonetically, the greater the quantity, the longer the duration of the sound; it's impractical, take a breath.
When nomads wanted to represent 10 animals, they simply drew 10 animals; I am imagining a herd of 1000 heads.
The Egyptians had almost 1000 symbols in their alphabet.
I looked for the answer to this and what I found is imitating. If you want to try to communicate with an alien or an animal the first step will be repetition, imitating, mirroring.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 14, 2020, 05:22:04 AM
I guess you see a hypothetico deductive spiral in a different way to me. For any field of enquiry you may have a range of observations, opinions and other theories. Now while opinions and other theories may be less than reliable, if there is a method of making observations or at least testing some of the assertions, you have something to work with.
Ok  :thumbsup: That it's Science. That spiral is not the same that predictive model development.

What you are starting with is a branch of metaphysics and to convert that to physics you have to do enough work at the inductive level to support the basic assertions. Now where we diverge is in whatever the topic may happen to be. Some assertions can neither be verified or falsified so they are in fact trivial (ALA Popper) and this changes over time. The assertion that there were canals on Mars was around for a very long time due to the available range of observations that were available but with landings and orbital photography, it was not true.
I don't know if I can refute Popper  :biggrin:
Perhaps it's most clear to say that you start with Ignorance. These days Metaphysics imply that you never will can to prove if is true or not. Assertions that you can think a way to prove, but in fact you "still" can do that, it's the subject of Theorethical Science (or PseudoScience). It's the case of Theorethical physics and Climate science (and was Mars channels assertion case).
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Vortex on April 14, 2020, 05:54:19 AM
Hi caballero,
Quote
Well, by definition of chaotic system it is that you cannot predict the future, only approximate with probabilities and data, and there comes a point that something changes and takes all the prediction to the trash.

No any problem here. Nature does not permit you to measure precisely everything at the same time. Sometimes, the equation sets does not include some unknown parameters leading to failure. You will need to discover the missing elements and reconstruct the system. Life and science are advancing with many trials and errors.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 14, 2020, 07:17:32 AM
Quote from: Henri Poincaré
... we can only know the initial situation approximately. If this allowed us to predict the situation that follows in time with the same approximation, it is all that we would need, and we could say that the phenomenon has been predicted, that it is governed by laws. But this is not always the case; It may happen that small differences in the initial conditions produce very different conditions in the final phenomena. If a small error in the initial conditions produces a huge error in the final conditions, the prediction becomes impossible and we have a fortuitous phenomenon.

I am afraid that the data that we can know is not as close to reality as it should be, due to the stress situation itself and because politicians are not interested, making it difficult to build a successful calculation exercise. There are unexpected variables such as the case that today in Spain it has allowed certain sectors not essential to return to work, but without security measures, without favorable data for it.

Once the virus is fully spread throughout society, I think it is impossible to stop, no matter how many tests you already do. I look at it in the data of certain countries that were not bad recently, such as Germany, Switzerland, etc. and they don't stop growing. I would say that we are all going through it, probably most will be asymptomatic or with low impact.

Come to think of it, they really are expected variables, which implies lower expectations of success.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 14, 2020, 01:56:44 PM
Thinking a little, perhaps you are right in the sense that scientific investigations provide reliable data.

That is the point indeed. You even need science to understand and interpret the data (and its limitations and uncertainties). Simple example: give me a purely mechanical answer to the question "is population growth good or bad?"
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 15, 2020, 01:05:06 AM
That is the point indeed. You even need science to understand and interpret the data (and its limitations and uncertainties).
Perhaps usefull, perhaps not, for technological (predictive) model development.

Simple example: give me a purely mechanical answer to the question "is population growth good or bad?"
Totally unrelated to technological model development  :cool:.


 
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 15, 2020, 01:41:10 AM
Just curious: What kind of models are you developing?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 15, 2020, 02:23:55 AM
Just curious: What kind of models are you developing?
Now, a scientific model of growing cattle. You can find some abstracts in ResearchGate.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 15, 2020, 05:17:21 PM
I have heard it said that Italy has reduced the number of members of its congress. Although it is a rather aesthetic measure, it is going in the right direction. It also appears to have commissioned economic reconstruction from the CEO of Vodafone, who appears to be a highly regarded economist. I am curious to see what measures he proposes, but I imagine that the entire Italian debt is unpayable.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 16, 2020, 02:21:27 AM
CNN and MSNBC have been tested negative for journalism.  :skrewy:

Trump puts them in front of the mirror watching their own lies and fake journalism in a video presentation, in front of the whole world.
The video shows the taken Corona actions and media spins in a time-line from january till now.
Totally bypassing the (shadow)banning on multimedia platforms.
Hilarious, they can't hide it for the public.

The left spins it as a Trump campaign video and did not air this video part.
Facing their own lies is considered an attack on their integrity.

I like watching the live Trump press conferences and later check how the media spins it.
The world is watching too.

They're trying to spin the story again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIn4mBBWgyE

TIMELINE REVIEW: Trump DEFENDS reaction to virus OUTBREAK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8skK9_hr7H0

FULL BRIEFING: Monday Coronavirus Task Force Update at the White House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNaCSwezJHo

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TN82i_T0-qw/hqdefault.jpg)

It's dangerous to speak.
It always will be.
It's even more dangerous not speaking.
In the World of Lies, Truth is Treason.
The Truth is never told it's always Learned.

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.
At first they ignore you, then they laugh about you, then they fight you, in the end you will win. (Covfefe)
Who doesn’t get prosecuted or investigated for their crimes?
In a world of Universal deceit, the Truth is a revolutionary act.
What all big corporations and government officials seem to forget, WE the People have the power.

Open your eyes, it's not about left-wing vs right-wing.
It's EVIL vs GOOD.

HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOM!

(https://media.8kun.top/file_store/fb6f51e8be003e2b86dc5f7f8df39494b85a4dc584d8c0ad87726a3c7b7a99d2.png)

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 16, 2020, 02:31:49 AM
@Siekmanski
 :biggrin:  :thumbsup:

> To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.
Yeah, that's it
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 16, 2020, 03:50:10 AM
@Siekmanski
 :biggrin:  :thumbsup:

> To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.
Yeah, that's it

Doesn't sound logical, folks: Trump does not allow anybody to criticise him, but so far he does not rule over NYT, CNN and Washington Post :badgrin:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 16, 2020, 04:41:26 AM
@Siekmanski
 :biggrin:  :thumbsup:

> To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.
Yeah, that's it

Doesn't sound logical, folks: Trump does not allow anybody to criticise him, but so far he does not rule over NYT, CNN and Washington Post :badgrin:

Criticizing and changing facts are 2 different things.  :badgrin:

It's not easy to convince people they have been fooled, it takes a lot of time for them to see it and acknowledge it.
They keep in a state of denial, even if reality is right in front of them all the time.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 16, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
I was looking for information why there's so much resent to Hydroxychloroquine treatments.

Why do doctors ( general practitioners ) get fined when prescribing Hydroxychloroquine to covid-19 patients?
What if it is really an effective cure for the Flu and Corona infections? ( maybe even for more virus infections )
Do we need vaccinations if there is already a cure?

I came across this, very interesting,
https://www.facebook.com/NoLibs2018and2019/posts/3082593298457685
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 16, 2020, 09:34:40 PM
Interview to Bill Gates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe8fIjxicoo
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: TimoVJL on April 16, 2020, 10:26:17 PM
I was looking for information why there's so much resent to Hydroxychloroquine treatments.

Why do doctors ( general practitioners ) get fined when prescribing Hydroxychloroquine to covid-19 patients?
What if it is really an effective cure for the Flu and Corona infections? ( maybe even for more virus infections )
Do we need vaccinations if there is already a cure?

I came across this, very interesting,
https://www.facebook.com/NoLibs2018and2019/posts/3082593298457685
Side effects ?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 16, 2020, 11:08:27 PM
And those are?
Besides occasional stomach ache and diarrhea.
Hydroxychloroquine is a 70 year old drug.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jack on April 18, 2020, 02:30:08 AM
Fundamentalist Vaccine and the mark of the beast https://youtu.be/NUTLvq1eQAw
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 26, 2020, 02:02:43 AM
There are several quite troubling repercussions after going through a strong covid. Basically they derive from the fact of the attack on the lungs and the loss of oxygenation, which cause brain and heart damage, apart from the lung itself. In addition to that, today I have heard another worrying derivative: it seems to be the creation of microthrombi, which are coagulations of the blood, which is externalized as chilblains. A curious news related to this is that two Chinese doctors have awakened from a coma with covid with black pigmented skin. One explanation that I have seen is a side effect of the chloroquine used in them, but another explanation that I have heard today is that of the microthrombi that may have affected the adrenal glands.
(https://e00-marca.uecdn.es/assets/multimedia/imagenes/2020/04/23/15876521835189.jpg)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 26, 2020, 04:18:54 AM
two Chinese doctors have awakened from a coma with covid with black pigmented skin

Hey Marinus, that would be quite a new experience with the 70 year old drug :bgrin:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 26, 2020, 04:41:19 AM
 :biggrin:

If that is the result, I will not take that old medicine.....
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 26, 2020, 07:24:40 AM
One explanation ...

 ... photographer is using sepia filter, or forgot turn on the flash.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 27, 2020, 08:07:43 AM
Sara Cunial, Italian deputy denounces the coronavirus conspiracy and denounces the lethal influence of 5g antennas and vaccines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILDuzD7P6so
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 27, 2020, 08:30:23 AM
Even for the Movimento 5 Stelle Ms Cunial was too mad, so they expelled here :bgrin:

... photographer is using sepia filter, or forgot turn on the flash.  :biggrin:

It's actually quite real, and not at all funny: severe liver damage caused by chloroquine.

https://www.archyde.com/two-chinese-doctors-wake-up-from-coma-with-coronavirus-with-dark-skin/
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 27, 2020, 09:54:51 AM
It's actually quite real,
Nobody can say that from that pictures!
Why it's not posible to document seriously a serius problem?
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: TimoVJL on April 27, 2020, 07:25:11 PM
Side effects:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/chloroquine-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20062834?p=1

Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: HSE on April 27, 2020, 11:26:27 PM
Wow!
Quote
Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur:

Anxiety
attempts at killing oneself
...
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 28, 2020, 02:01:00 AM
Side effects:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/chloroquine-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20062834?p=1

A lot of symptoms. It looks like the series: "Brazilians should be studied by NASA".
An electrician was plugging wires and shower in a bathroom. After the service done to turn on the lamp, it was necessary to turn the water register.

I'm currently looking at pizzagate, pedowood and adenochrome.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jj2007 on April 28, 2020, 02:51:07 AM
Folks, distract yourself with a really extraordinary video taken near by my home (https://www.facebook.com/dirtyseagulls/videos/272356200443808/). I promise nobody is talking there. Maximise the window, it's worth it ;-)
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: hutch-- on April 28, 2020, 02:53:44 AM
He he, good racing drone footage.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 28, 2020, 02:58:22 AM
And where are the Romans, Obelix would say?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 28, 2020, 03:54:43 AM
Folks, distract yourself with a really extraordinary video taken near by my home (https://www.facebook.com/dirtyseagulls/videos/272356200443808/). I promise nobody is talking there. Maximise the window, it's worth it ;-)
beautifull images.
The church next to the statue has two towers. At the colonial era, slaves could not enter churches due to this fact. A colonial master wished to marry a freed slave in Brazil, but this problem existed, the solution was to build a church in which the two towers were at the bottom of the church instead of being at the entrance. It was how they got married.
Generally the other churches are facing the main church, it is a form of location.

In India tourists were caught breaking the quarantine, as a form of punishment they had to write the word  sorry 500 times.
After heart surgery Kim Jong Un had complications, speculation says he may be dead. The question that remains is who will succeed him. If China intervenes it could be his sister, otherwise the military will take over.
Krakatoa volcano has erupted.
Children found in robes (pipes) in New York.
USA sent a naval fleet to the seas near Venezuela with the intention of curbing drug trafficking.
Some reports say that chloroquine is not effective depending on the patient, as in cases of heart problems. Another news says and contradicts about the use of nicotine in relation to covid.
The only country in Europe that did not stop was Belarus, it has a low rate of deaths by covid.
Boing and Embraer have given up on the companies' merger agreement.
George Soros proposed a universal basic income for everyone. Now there is no "added value"(Marx), "invisible hand"(Smith), now it is the law of minimum effort. Make money just for existing. Obvious, the minimum. Social control. Once inside try to get out!. The rhetoric is good, helping the poor. The reality is different, try not to be poor.
Warren Buffett is in favor of taxing the rich. He's kind huh!. I wonder why one of the richest people in the world is in favor of this. The richest will not let the rich catch up with them.

Returning to the subject of covid.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 28, 2020, 05:02:37 AM
Not only George Soros, but also Pope Francis, worth the redundancy. Sounds good, doesn't it? Like green energy.  :greenclp:
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 28, 2020, 06:40:54 AM
Not only George Soros, but also Pope Francis, worth the redundancy. Sounds good, doesn't it? Like green energy.  :greenclp:
Yes, I agree with you. Marx like to explode catolic church, but fail. So, other choice was to implode, they have some success.

The last news that I read was the creation of only one religion. It is based on Abraham, Pentateuch, present in Judaism, Islam and Catholicism. One God, one religion. I prefer one God, several religions. I see it as the tower of Babel.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 28, 2020, 10:47:55 PM
Be careful about going for a walk with the children, because pediatricians seem to be finding a relationship between covid and a serious childhood illness.

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-04-28/pediatras-alertan-de-la-posible-relacion-del-coronavirus-con-casos-de-inflamacion-multiorganica-grave-en-ninos.html
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 29, 2020, 01:06:33 AM
> Children found in robes (pipes) in New York.
I have read about it, could it be true? It seems to be terrible
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: mineiro on April 29, 2020, 01:57:00 AM
I have read about it, could it be true? It seems to be terrible
I didn't see it appear in the mainstream media, I can't say.
Apparently it is linked to the kidnapping of children. In captivity, they are terrified to intimidate them, this causes the body to produce adrenaline (adenochrome) and after they kill the children to remove this substance, supposedly near the pineal gland that some call the third eye (Egypt, eye of Horus, hence the triangle).
This substance is halucinogenic and rejuvenating, hence the interest in Hollywood stars who want to be young forever.
Some reports correlate these acts with Kabbalah and Iluminatti. One person had two dead babies in his fridge as if it were something normal, he is no longer intimidated.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: jack on April 29, 2020, 02:17:34 AM
the news in the media about the corona virus is probably exaggerated.
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: Siekmanski on April 29, 2020, 12:24:40 PM
See The Video Youtube Banned Of California Doctors’ Exposing COVID-19 Hoax

https://banned.video/watch?id=5ea4994ea881fd00808e95ad
Title: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
Post by: caballero on April 30, 2020, 04:32:23 AM
I am hallucinating with the level of censorship that are being applied by media like youtube, etc. Although it seems that it is extended to everwhere. The mass media are already subdued and as they see that people are escaping to alternative means on the internet to find news, it seems that the battle is there now.

Regarding the level of spread of the covid, I suppose that this must depend on the regions, perhaps in California is not as spread as in New York, but it seems that the danger must be there. One of the biggest victims of this, I would say, will be Mr. Trump, as far as I know it seems that he had made the re-election and now, perhaps it is not so clear. So I don't think he was fooled into taking precautionary measures for nothing at the cost of destroying the economy that could lead him to lose the election.

I said it from the beginning, in my opinion we should have continued working, but with precautions. The question is why there are not enough protection measures on the market for everyone: masks, etc. Although they are low-efficiency masks, if they prevent 30% infection, it is better than nothing.