Author Topic: Instruction Set Detection  (Read 467 times)

Gunther

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2022, 05:40:03 PM »
Andreas,

... that's why I prefer an 11-year-old AMD 3-core, the motherboard bought on Ebay for 3€. ...

3€? That's a good catch.

Progress is an illusion.  :biggrin:

Yes, the times are like this. What had long belonged to the past and seemed to have been overcome is now celebrating a happy new day.
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.

HSE

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2022, 02:46:14 AM »
Hi Gunther!

Code: [Select]
Detection Results
=================

CPU Strings
-----------

Processor Vendor String: GenuineIntel
Processor Brand String:  Intel(R)Core(TM)i3-10100CPU@3.60GHz

Supported Instruction Sets
--------------------------

MMX  SSE  SSE2  SSE3  SSSE3  SSE4.1  SSE4.2


Please, press any key to end the application ...

This is a VirtualBox FreeDos machine with a different trick. I created a floppy image and copy or paste files with DiskExplorer

As contrast, QEMU apparently fail to know about hardware machine:
Code: [Select]
Detection Results
=================

CPU Strings
-----------

Processor Vendor String: AuthenticAMD
Processor Brand String:  QEMUVirtualCPUversion2.5+

Supported Instruction Sets
--------------------------

MMX  SSE  SSE2  SSE3


Please, press any key to end the application ...

Regards, HSE.
Equations in Assembly: SmplMath

Gunther

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2022, 03:41:11 AM »
HSE,

This is a VirtualBox FreeDos machine with a different trick. ...
Yes. The output is as expected.

... I created a floppy image and copy or paste files with DiskExplorer
Fine. This is another way of data exchange between host and guest. :thumbsup: But a floppy image is limited to 1.44 MB, isn't it?

The following option works as well. Make an USB stick bootable. Install a DOS on it normally - by the way, FreeDOS is a good choice. A good BIOS can boot from a USB stick
meanwhile. Voilà a native DOS is running. This is a clean solution without much effort.

As contrast, QEMU apparently fail to know about hardware machine:
Yes, it's a pain with these emulations.
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.

HSE

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2022, 09:17:19 PM »
Gunther,

The following option works as well. Make an USB stick bootable. Install a DOS on it normally - by the way, FreeDOS is a good choice. A good BIOS can boot from a USB stick
meanwhile. Voilà a native DOS is running. This is a clean solution without much effort.

 :eusa_naughty: That solution don't work in new machines. FreeDos depend on Legacy BIOS, but new Intel machines only have UEFI.

You have to emulate a Legacy BIOS machine if want to run FreeDos   :eusa_boohoo:

Any way, non-bootable USB stick is a better solution for VirtualBox, but yesterday I don't found the stick  :biggrin: 
Equations in Assembly: SmplMath

Gunther

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2022, 10:25:17 PM »
HSE,

:eusa_naughty: That solution don't work in new machines. FreeDos depend on Legacy BIOS, but new Intel machines only have UEFI.

I've a new Intel machine with UEFI and it works. I can boot from USB stick without any problems. Check your BIOS settings.
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.

HSE

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2022, 10:38:32 PM »
Gunter,

I've a new Intel machine with UEFI and it works. I can boot from USB stick without any problems. Check your BIOS settings.

If FreeDos run native, you machine have a Dual BIOS  :thumbsup: (like AMD machines, yet).


Equations in Assembly: SmplMath

Gunther

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2022, 12:57:08 AM »
HSE,

If FreeDos run native, you machine have a Dual BIOS  :thumbsup: (like AMD machines, yet).

that can be. I picked out all the components of the computer from a company that built everything together. The motherboard was their suggestion.

But if the new Intel machines can't boot from other media, it's another step to patronize users. How to install another operating system? Is Grub4Dos
a possibility in this case?
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.

HSE

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2022, 01:36:19 AM »
Gunther,

You can install any recent OS from any media, because they boot from UEFI. Old OSs that need Legacy BIOS not longer run natively.

I think there was some discussion or question in FreeDos forum, but Hall have no interest into update FreeDos to use UEFI.
Equations in Assembly: SmplMath

Gunther

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2022, 01:58:17 AM »
HSE,

I think there was some discussion or question in FreeDos forum, but Hall have no interest into update FreeDos to use UEFI.

yes, I have read the thread, but that is not the whole truth. Here is what I found from various sources: A typical bootable stick with DOS contains a FAT partition. Dozens of tutorials exist on
how to do this. If you now store an efi program, e.g. an EFI shell under "EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI" on this file system, then most UEFI systems can boot from it without further workarounds,
either in legacy mode (DOS) or in EFI mode (the EFI shell). More finicky systems may require that the efi program resides on an EFI system partition, i.e. a FAT formatted partition of type ef00.
You could also install DOS on this partition or alternatively create a separate partition for DOS and install grub as boot manager if necessary. Alternatively you can boot DOS with grub from an
image without any problems, at least then it doesn't matter anymore if the image is on an EFI system partition or on another one. More details can be found here.


Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.

HSE

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2022, 02:14:24 AM »
Gunther,

It's not a booting problem. DOS binaries are calling BIOS interruptions but, I understand, interruptions no longer exist in UEFI systems.

You pointed to a 2012 discussion, there was no only-UEFI systems at that time. I think first only UEFI x64 machines are from last part of 2020.
Equations in Assembly: SmplMath

Gunther

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2022, 02:47:24 AM »
HSE,

It's not a booting problem.

First of all, it is a boat problem, but it can be solved.

DOS binaries are calling BIOS interruptions but, I understand, interruptions no longer exist in UEFI systems.

My program doesn't use BIOS interrupts. It may be that the PowerBASIC RTL does this. Mostly UEFI still contains a BIOS compatibility mode, with which the old BIOS functions
and interrupts are made available after all and redirected internally to modern UEFI routines. But, of course, this has to be checked. First of all, it's about booting DOS; that still
works.
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.

HSE

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2022, 03:54:52 AM »
First of all, it's about booting DOS; that still works.
If You are sure, must be that way.  :thumbsup:

Just this machine came from a parallel universe where things don't work like expected  :biggrin: (may be the future?)
Equations in Assembly: SmplMath

Gunther

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2022, 05:18:40 AM »
HSE,

If You are sure, must be that way.  :thumbsup:

what does safe mean here? Assume nothing, check it, measure it. That's the motto.

Just this machine came from a parallel universe where things don't work like expected  :biggrin: (may be the future?)

Who knows?
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.

HSE

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2022, 05:51:23 AM »
Gunther,

If You are sure, must be that way.  :thumbsup:

what does safe mean here? Assume nothing, check it, measure it. That's the motto.

That is the point. I can't refute nothing without better references.  :biggrin:
Equations in Assembly: SmplMath

Gunther

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Re: Instruction Set Detection
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2022, 05:50:37 PM »
HSE,

That is the point. ...

And i'ts the way to go.
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.