Author Topic: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous  (Read 900 times)

hutch--

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2022, 08:08:00 AM »
I tried the link but it was blocking me unless I accepted their cookies so I left.

Ireland is an interesting case, they got stuck into boosting their economy some years ago and have done well. I am sorry to hear that Spain is lagging behind, most probably governments selling their arse as well as their population. I see the EU as an agency impoverishing populations with the excuse of greening the planet while using it as a measure of population control.

Spain had viable coal mines that would protect it from energy shortages but the morons have shut it down. Its a bit hard to connect that a viable pathway to genuine pollution reduction delivers long term results while shutting things down impoverishes a population.

With this pandemic bullsh*t, I will probably never get to see Spain which is unfortunate as there is much to see there. I have to suffice with good quality video on Youtube these days.
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jj2007

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2022, 09:38:31 AM »
I see the EU as an agency impoverishing populations with the excuse of greening the planet while using it as a measure of population control.

That was funny, thanks :badgrin:

hutch--

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2022, 10:12:53 AM »
 :biggrin:

The only real problem I see for the global elite undertaking population reduction to get a clean green world, is how to keep enough plebs around to do the dirty work. Can you imagine how difficult it would be for one of the elite to have to clean out sewerage systems or even put the garbage out and that is before processing it in a circular economy ?  :tongue:
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José Roca

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2022, 10:13:22 AM »
Steve,

Please read informed sources instead of giving credit to misleading stadistics posted by caballero.

It is an economic letter by the Central Bank of Ireland titled "Is Ireland really the most prosperous country in Europe?"

https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/economic-letters/vol-2021-no-1-is-ireland-really-the-most-prosperous-country-in-europe.pdf

This link has not cookies, so you have no excuse.

Quote
Conclusion
Ireland is a prosperous country, but not as prosperous as is often thought
because of the inappropriate use of misleading, albeit conventional statistics.
There is less consumption per capita than in the United Kingdom, and on this
metric we are closer to New Zealand, Israel and Italy, than to the United
States, Switzerland or Norway (which is where the GDP comparison would
put Ireland). The same conclusion is drawn if GDP is replaced with the
Ireland-specific GNI* indicator. Using GDP as a measure can mislead analysis
of such matters as debt, carbon-intensity and inequality.


hutch--

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2022, 10:22:26 AM »
Hi Jose,

The situation in Ireland is very well known, compare the living standards in Ireland in the past and the level of improvement is substantial. No economy has a magic bullet and they all have their problems but large scale improvements in the living standard of a population is one of the indicators of successful government policy.

Much the same can be said about China, for whatever problems its economy may have, Xi Jinping has done great things in poverty allevation for the poorest people in China who have often been extracted from severe levels of poverty and subsistence farming to a more urban lifestyle where they have viable incomes.

Much the reason why China has become more powerful is they have been willing to get off their arse and improve many things in the country.
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jj2007

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2022, 10:39:29 AM »
The situation in Ireland is very well known, compare the living standards in Ireland in the past and the level of improvement is substantial.

Successful government policy? It's the EU that made this happen, and it's not an entirely positive thing, because Ireland chose to become a tax haven, like other small EU States (mainly Lux+NL). Small EU States have a tendency to abuse their smallness, by granting favourable conditions to Apple, Amazon & friends, thus reducing the tax revenue of bigger countries who cannot afford tax dumping.

Malta and Cyprus used to sell their national passports to Russian oligarchs, thus making them EU citizens - a truely parassitarian behaviour.

Luxemburg sits between F, D and Belgium. They sell fuel at slightly lower prices, so that French, German and Belgian car owners drive hundreds of kilometres to save a few bucks, at the expense of a) the environment and b) the bigger states who get less tax return.

(If somebody now jumps in to say "lower taxes are good", thus demonstrating that he can't count to 3 and doesn't know what taxes are good for, no problem, be my guest :cool:)

Quote
The double Irish with a Dutch sandwich is a tax avoidance technique employed by certain large corporations. The scheme involves sending profits first through one Irish company, then to a Dutch company and finally to a second Irish company headquartered in a tax haven.

See also Gibraltar is no longer a Tax Heaven and
Quote
Is Malta a tax haven country?
With a market share of just 0.66 percent but a secrecy score of 62, Malta has long been considered a traditional tax haven due to some of the lowest tax on profits of any country in the EU. While local businesses pay a 35 percent tax on profits, foreign corporations pay as little as 5 percent.

caballero

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2022, 05:46:04 PM »
> giving credit to misleading stadistics posted by caballero

The economic newspaper Expansión is one of the main newspapers in Spain. The case of Ireland is a widely recognized example of success. I have put it here only to compare it with Spain, since it hooks very well having had such a similar per capita income for so long. I brought this example up to indicate that although the EU were an invention to reduce the value of the currency of the richest countries and thus make them better exporters, the truth is that a lot of wealth has been distributed and Ireland has taken advantage of it. Therefore, other countries could/should also do the same.

I have already seen on other occasions cases of good work criticized by the left, to enter, parasitize it, and destroy it in the name of the people, resilience, climate change, etc.


Lithuania and Cyprus overtake Spain in GDP per capita
https://www.eleconomista.es/economia/noticias/11283506/06/21/El-consumo-y-la-riqueza-per-capita-en-Espana-ampliaron-su-brecha-con-la-eurozona-en-2020.html


I would say that the main reason why we stagnate in per capita income is that many people have been taught to live off the state, which raises prices and taxes indiscriminately. This makes it very difficult to innovate and compete.

Mr Roca used to say the mantra that they usually repeat like parrots: "what has to be done is that the brains that have left return to Spain". So that? to steal from them too? Do you think that someone who has made an effort to have a life outside of here is going to want to come back? to pay you for your luxuries?


> If somebody now jumps in to say "lower taxes are good", thus demonstrating that he can't count to 3 and doesn't know what taxes are good for

Yeah, my fault  :thumbsup:
The logic of the error is hidden among the most unexpected lines of the program

Gunther

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2022, 06:53:24 PM »
(If somebody now jumps in to say "lower taxes are good", thus demonstrating that he can't count to 3 and doesn't know what taxes are good for, no problem, be my guest :cool:)

Well, for that you counted to infinity and that two times in a row. Who can claim that?
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.

José Roca

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2022, 02:43:02 AM »
> The economic newspaper Expansión is one of the main newspapers in Spain. The case of Ireland is a widely recognized example of success.

What I'm saying is that the data posted is misleading because the Irish GDP is distorted by including profits made elsewhere. For example, a multinational makes 10 billions of profit for services provided in Spain, but they declare it in Ireland to avoid taxes. These profits should increase the Spanish GDP, but instead they increase the Irish GDP (on paper only, of course).

Please, read the article of the Central Bank of Ireland that I have posted.

NoCforMe

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2022, 11:47:26 AM »
Please, read the article of the Central Bank of Ireland that I have posted.
I'm reading it now, and I have to say I'm impressed. For one thing, the author(s) of that article aren't doing the expected thing by trying to make their country look good at all costs; in fact, it's quite anti-booster, which is a good thing.

Important take-away from that article:
Quote
[...] it is extremely common for a single indicator to be used in international league tables, and when it is, either Gross Domestic Product (GDP) or Gross National Income (GNI) is usually the measure used, despite well-known deficiencies in these as measures of wellbeing.

hutch--

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2022, 11:58:20 AM »
While I understand what Jose has addressed, sad to say for many governments around the world, tax havens are sucking the tax revenue out of many of them. OZ is a resource rich country but massive multinationals pull huge amounts of money out of the OZ tax base by shifting the profits to low tax havens.

It would take international co-operation to address the problem and many conservative governments around the world would not be willing to shut such tax loopholes as they have too many vested interests in keeping them. The patsies are of course, ordinary taxpayers who don't have a trick to pay far less or no tax at all.

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caballero

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Re: Conspiracy theories can be dangerous
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2022, 06:01:00 PM »
I'm not going to waste my time reading that document. Let's say that the per capita income is not as high as the official figures indicate, even so I bet that they are still much higher than those of Spain.

What you propose is to make the Irish way of life ugly in order to raise taxes, which is a good thing, and to do away with what has made it more prosperous. Don't count on me.

If someone does not like tax havens, destroy the tax hells first and it will not be necessary to go there. It is quite simple, but the objective is to raise taxes to manage the money and keep it for myself.

Probably all countries lie with their official figures and Spain is not a model to look at, where there is no way of knowing what its gdp is or its debt or the number of unemployed.
The logic of the error is hidden among the most unexpected lines of the program