Author Topic: The CERN crash from July 2008  (Read 30427 times)

Gunther

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2013, 09:33:39 PM »
Hi Alex,

Gunther, why it will be so? (sorry for incompitent question)

no need for excuses. Here is one reason. The industrial production of helium goes hand in hand with the natural gas production. If the natural gas production will be finished in a few decades, we have no longer enough helium.

Gunther
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FORTRANS

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2013, 11:39:33 PM »
Hi,

   And not many outside the US recover helium.  And from
the descriptions of the "natural gas boom" here in the US,
not many of the new wells are recovering it either.  A waste.

Regards,

Steve N.

Gunther

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2013, 12:04:39 AM »
Steve,

Hi,

   And not many outside the US recover helium.  And from
the descriptions of the "natural gas boom" here in the US,
not many of the new wells are recovering it either.  A waste.

Regards,

Steve N.

yes, that's right. The tricky point is: hydrogen and helium are so lightweighted that they are the only gases which can leave the gravitational field of the earth. We've enough hydrogen, but not enough helium.

Gunther
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hutch--

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2013, 12:16:14 AM »
That is a problem for inert gas welding, helium gives better results, a much more aggressive arc but it is rare and expensive. The industry standard here in OZ is argon which works fine but requires more power for a given performance. After welding with older fluxes, argon leaves the weld much cleaner and without the higher cleanup costs of flux based systems. The main win with flux core welding is that it can be used in the open as in building sites as it is not effected by wind.

Welding up to half inch plate is possible with the small Lincoln welder I bought some years ago and the wire feed is not restricted to positional welding like the older stick welding.
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Antariy

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2013, 02:30:19 PM »
Thank you all for your explanations :biggrin:

Gunther

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2013, 07:54:20 PM »
Alex,

you're welcome.  :t

Gunther
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FORTRANS

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2013, 11:00:34 PM »
The tricky point is: hydrogen and helium are so lightweighted that they are the only gases which can leave the gravitational field of the earth. We've enough hydrogen, but not enough helium.

Hi Gunther,

   A nit.  An atmosphere loses gases due to (mainly) a sputtering
process where atoms in the upper atmosphere are hit by fast
atoms from the solar wind.  The lighter atoms react more to this
process.  So lighter gases are depleted preferentially over heavier
ones.  But, the heavier gases are leaving as well, but at a much
lower rate.  This becomes apparent in a more extreme case than
Earth's.  Mars, for instance, has lost most of its heaver gases
as well.

   But point taken; Venus is dry due to hydrogen (and HO and
H2O) losses.  And it has no lack of heavier gases.  And
astronomers use the hydrogen to deuterium ratio there to
calculate the rate of loss.  If that weight difference shows up,
heavier atoms will not be lost very fast.  So it is not even a
particularly useful nit to bring up.  Just a slow day here.

Cheers,

Steve N.

Gunther

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2013, 11:04:06 PM »
Steve,

thank you for your good explanation.  :t

Gunther
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daydreamer

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2013, 03:32:07 AM »
when I went to welding school, due to be unemployed, I had to choose one education or lose my money, so I choosed the most interesting, thinking repairing my car with welding skills, would be great skill, the most skilled welder had to show he could make a weld without airpockets that could break it , to become a licenced welder
I think the problem was, there was no licenced person making the part that broke at CERN, so thats why it broke
you also have the problem with metals getting more fragile at colder temperature, a thing they discovered at WWII, suddenly at nights cold temperature the fastproduced ships, broke and sunk at lower temperatures

I do not know about so low temperatures as 0 K, but I read that alumium compared to steel, gets stronger when colder

also about helium, might we not have helium produced by fusion hydrogen in the future possible when the gas resources is empty?
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dedndave

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2013, 03:49:10 AM »
there must be a lot of helium in the upper atmosphere, i would think
so, when they figure out the Higgs Boson....

they can make the helium atoms in the upper atmosphere slightly heavier
the helium will gently float back to earth's surface, where it can be easily collected
they can restore the mass to the original value and use the helium for more research   :biggrin:

Patent #q345346741234123

the end justifies the end ???   :lol:

daydreamer

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2013, 03:56:44 AM »
there must be a lot of helium in the upper atmosphere, i would think
so, when they figure out the Higgs Boson....

they can make the helium atoms in the upper atmosphere slightly heavier
the helium will gently float back to earth's surface, where it can be easily collected
they can restore the mass to the original value and use the helium for more research   :biggrin:

Patent #q345346741234123

the end justifies the end ???   :lol:
:lol: like a scientific neverendingstory  :greenclp:
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Nick  :  When you give up your dream, you die.
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Gunther

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2013, 04:34:59 AM »
:lol: like a scientific neverendingstory  :greenclp:

yes, it looks so.  :icon_cool:

Gunther
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FORTRANS

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2013, 05:07:10 AM »
Hi,

   Helium and the Congress.  Laughing gas?  unfortunately no.

helium-reserve

Regards,

Steve N.

Gunther

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Re: The CERN crash from July 2008
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2013, 07:08:27 AM »
Hi Steve,

Hi,

   Helium and the Congress.  Laughing gas?  unfortunately no.

helium-reserve

Regards,

Steve N.

thank you for the link to the noteworthy article.

Gunther
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.