Never a True-er word spoken about ZA than this clip

[dedndave]

considering what Jochen does for a living, i have to respect his views on this subject
but, as i said before, the guy is trying to motivate black people

[K_F]

And don't tell me now that slavery, as practised and preached by the "Afrikaners", is a better solution. ZA is sitting on a pile of shit because over many decades the white slaveholder clique brutally suppressed the development of democracy in ZA. Yes the current government is no good, but the whites should at least say "thank you, ladies and sirs" to the black people of ZA who did not confiscate all their stolen property, and who did not hang them on the nearest tree for the sake of justice.

I'll let you on a little secret that most of the world does not know about ZA..
At the time of the '94 takeover ZA was in a very explosive situation... It was not mandela who forgave. It was neither him nor the cANCer, but the goodwill of the people themselves.
In fact the cANCer (mandela being the symbolic leader) have never forgiven anything as the majority of whites here stay to remind them of their continuous balls-ups.. and they hate it.
Had it exploded the cANCer and mandela would not be alive today (maybe it should have gone this way).. not murdered by the white or the afrikaner..Oh No.. but by their own people, the black african.
They were shit scared at the time.. and only by a miracle (minus those stupid AWB characters) it did not go that way, but in the end the people voted for what they believed to be their 'liberators'..
The same happened in Zimbabwe... maybe uncle Bob's your good friend.. make sure you have armour plating on your back. We know where Zimbabwe is today

I'm afraid you are very naive on african affairs.. and have no idea!
 ;)

I suggest you watch the Rodriguez DVD.. 'Seaching for Sugarman'.. and you might learn something about white South Africans during that time.
Your idea that white south africans were enslavers is like telling us the world is flat.. it's cracked   :P :P

[K_F]

Some realities if you care to read.. from the horse mouth   ;)

In defence of pale males
white August 16, 2013 - by TAU Bulletin

The state of the nation is no more ludicrously evident than Gauteng premier Nomvula Mokonyane’s recent “warning” that “pale males” would return to government in Gauteng if SA’s opposition Democratic Alliance party wins next year’s provincial election.

“It can’t happen, it will not happen” she declared. “Reversals in transformation are unacceptable, and the Gauteng public must be spared the “white gevaar” (danger).

Where in the world are efficiency, skills, creativity and diligence seen as a danger? Only in South Africa, where so-called liberation credentials, party membership and loyalty trump the need to maintain the first world country and its infrastructure which was handed to the ANC on a plate after the 1994 election.
Ms. Mokonyane’s racial invective and resentment has been received with a muted tolerance. Despite the non-racial assurances in the Founding Provisions of South Africa’s constitution, the governing party’s racial diatribes against, mostly, whites continue apace. Indeed, they seem to have increased. The State President’s YouTube clip where he urges his supporters to “kill the boers” and that his cabinet would “kill with a machine gun” is still running, without any apparent move by YouTube to take it out of circulation. (Yet a YouTube clip made by two white South Africans saying they refuse to apologize for being who they are was taken off within a few days of its appearance on the internet.)
South Africa has two parallel universes – the ANC’s self-delusion and the reality. The fact that the country has dramatically slipped down the world’s various achievement indexes over the past nineteen years has either escaped Ms. Mokonyane’s notice, or she is disingenuous in the extreme. Does the rather corpulent Ms. Mokonyane not realize that 90% of the food she and her countrymen consume is produced by pale males? That virtually everything she takes for granted in this country was created by pale males?
>From where did the railways, roads, commercial farms, schools, hospitals, potable water and electricity transmission emanate? The very language she uses in a legislature which is not part of her cultural heritage is a language of the pale male. The news print that distributes her humbug is not of her culture either. But she is selective in her vitriol. When this lady shops, she hurries to the pale males’ luxury shopping centers: she was recently seen at up market Hyde Park “posing proudly with her R10 000 LK Bennet shoes and matching handbag”. (Tony Leon, Business Day 30.7.13). Pale males are excoriated but they are good enough to produce and supply the luxuries which she and her fellow anti-friends cannot live without.
There is no empirical evidence to show that without the intervention of others in Africa (including pale males), Ms. Mokonyane’s culture would have evolved any further than that of those “lost” tribes one finds in the Amazon and Papua New Guinea. She should be grateful that that particular ship sailed around the Cape of Good Hope many years ago and that it decided to stop for victuals. Non-pale male groups who could have manned that ship may not have been so conciliatory to the locals, then and now.
Who created the Sasols, the Iscors, the Eskoms and the country’s nuclear capacity? Who rid the country of the tste tste fly and malaria? Who developed Africa’s premier agricultural and veterinary service, used by the whole continent? Who produces maize and other grain surpluses year after year on the continent that cannot feed itself?
And, conversely, who is busy destroying what used to be the African continent’s pin-up country?
Certainly not pale males. Ms. Mokonyane and her compatriots should look in the mirror. But if one’s modus vivendi is self delusion, then blame is the name of the game. The world has taken note of the Africa of today. It is not a pretty picture. Zimbabwe went from the continent’s bread basket to a basket case. Few if any of the continent’s governments can feed their people. Corruption, nepotism, inefficiency and venality are the order of the day. South Africa is no exception. Who is to blame for Liberia’s status as an African cesspool, or for Ethiopia’s failed state ranking? Colonialism? Apartheid? Pale males? Neither of these countries was subjected to colonialism or apartheid. They are travesties because the people who live there are who they are.

South Africa today could certainly do with some pale males to put things right. But this is not the ANC’s priority: a deep racial inferiority complex trumps practicality.
The facts
Pale males around the world are denounced by the non-achievers with relentless regularity. Whites in the United States complain about this as well. We quote Fred Reed from the US’s Nationalist Times:

“I am weary of the endless denunciation of ‘white privilege’; the calls to abolish all tests in which whites excel, and the need to make universities and police forces and advanced placement classes ‘look like American demographics’. It might be well to note the utter dependence of the US on white men who have contributed virtually everything that keeps the affirmative action classes from living in mud huts.”

Reed continues with examples of this contribution: “Euclidean geometry, parabolic geometry, hyperbolic geometry and projective geometry. Physical chemistry, organic chemistry, biochemistry. Classical mechanics. The indeterminacy principle. The wave equation. The Parthenon. Air conditioning. Number theory. Romanesque architecture. Gothic architecture. Information theory. Entropy. Enthalpy. Almost every symphony ever written. Pierre August Renoir. The diatonic scale. The mathematics behind the twelfth root of two and all that. The Bohr-Sommerfeld atom. The purine pyrimidine structure of the DNA ladder. Single sideband radio. All other radio. Dentistry. The internal combustion engine. Turbojets, turbofans, Doppler beam-sharpening. Penicillin. Airplanes. Surgery. The mammogram. The Pill. The condom. Polio vaccine. The integrated circuit.
“The computer, computational fluid dynamics. Euripides, Sophocles, Aristophanes, Homer. Glass. Rubber. Nylon. Roads. Buildings. Acetyl-cholinesterase inhibitors. Silicone. The automobile. Bug spray. Public cryptography.”
“Like it or not white men can do these things, have done them, and continue to do them. The evidence shows that all groups receiving affirmative action have not done them, and cannot do them, which is why they need affirmative action.
“The pattern of white men doing difficult things continues. Consider the founders of companies in information technologies. Not quite all white, but all men. Anyone who watched the landing of Curiosity on Mars will have noticed that Mission Control consisted overwhelmingly of white men. If I were rude, I would say to those who criticize: invent your own things.”
Reed cites South Africa as an example of a tragedy in the making. “A constantly dwindling number of whites are at the mercy of a predatory welfare class and it’s possible they can’t and won’t carry the rest of the population. If things get worse for them, they will simply flee the country.”
Whether this scenario plays itself out in South Africa is up to the whites. But Ms. Mokonyane mustn’t take too much for granted. Her dislike of pale males borders on the obsessive, to the point where common sense and practical considerations for the benefit of all South Africans are cast aside in an all-consuming and embittered realization that her ANC cannot feed its people, cannot govern, and are no better than what the world has seen emanate from the rest of the continent over the past fifty years. She knows this, the ANC knows this, and the world knows it. Keeping out the pale males won’t improve the ANC. This racial animosity is inimical not only to whites but, eventually, to the future of all South Africans.
The pale male acrimony is however selective. Ex president Nelson Mandela was not interned in an ANC-run hospital. The new ANC elite have quietly bought houses in so-called white areas. They send their children to white schools. They want the pale male’s education system. (Every university in South Africa is a white creation). What is the yardstick against which anything of worth in South Africa is judged if not against a pale male-created yardstick? Are the elite’s suits bought from Nigeria or Italy? Is there such a thing as a Ghanian IPod? Do they fly Air Kenya or British Airways? Do they go to Mali for their holidays or to Paris?
A South African business journalist refers to “the African No” – “a jumbled melee of endless meetings, unreturned phone calls and ignored e-mails”. Compare this approach with the white world. The United States for example accounts for 4,5% of the world’s population but 25% of the world’s GDP. When people flee their terrible countries they try for Europe, Australia and other pale male bastions. They don’t want to emigrate to Zambia or the Sudan.
A cursory trawl through South Africa’s productive sector sees pale males as police divers, as rescue helicopter pilots, as paramedics, as the donors to charities, as the bedrock of the taxpayer base, as the underpinners of the medical profession, the service industry, the banking and the mining sector. The country is divided into the producers and the consumers, and we know on which side of the divide the pale male sits.
Virtually all of the productive farms that were handed over to ANC supporters under the government’s land redistribution policy failed: a pithy example of pale male producers and ANC-created destruction.
It is a pity that more media space is not given to a frank analysis of who are the drivers of the South African economy, instead of to those who talk about nationalization, about transformation, about white racism and so-called privilege. South Africans might get a clearer picture of who is really important in the grand scheme of things, as opposed to those who can talk the leg off an iron pot, hold press conferences, fly all over the world first class, endlessly discuss turnaround strategies and blame everyone but themselves for their shortcomings. Within ten years, South Africa’s social spending (including huge government employee wage bills) will exceed government revenue. Employee compensation as a share of government income went from 31,7% in 2008 to 44,3% in 2012. South Africa’s pale males are a finite group – even they cannot hope to foot the bill for this parasite profligacy forever.
Maybe then South Africa will value its pale males, but it may be too late.

Yup that BLACK 'racist asshole bigot' has most of it all right, it's you that has it all wrong.
 

[jj2007]

There is no empirical evidence to show that without the intervention of others in Africa (including pale males), Ms. Mokonyane’s culture would have evolved any further than that of those “lost” tribes one finds in the Amazon and Papua New Guinea.

Congrats for your attitude, K_F.

[K_F]

The truth is hard I know..
When we grew up under apartheid to find that the Gov had been lying to us.. it was hard to accept what the world was saying..
but in the end we all (Whites approx 63%) voted to end apartheid... take note, NOT the cANCer or mandela.. yes! the white vote ended apartheid.
It could have gone on to the bitter end.. but it didn't coz we voted.

That is the attitude here.. and we certainly not going to take any more crap, lies and BS like that from anyone.. no matter where it comes from.
Freedom costs
 ;)

[K_F]

Another added note..

Africa, of any continent ,has the most potential any place in the world, but in order for it to be beneficial for it's inhabitants, the inhabitants have to put 'structures' in place and maintain these structures. Priorities on education to the highest standards. social development.. etc ect.. just as in any other 1st world country, maybe modified slightly to fit the african cultures.

There currently are probably a few shining spots around the continent, and a lot of decent and educated people, but almost of it is in 'total darkness' ???

This doesn't happen over millenia by chance, and I could expound umpteen reasons.. but then you'd accuse me of vitriol racism, and ignore the 'facts', and africa will continue on the same path for some more millenia, and ultimate proving it's detractors correct. And in the meantime outside companies will come extract it's wealth by supporting puppet states that will continue to murder their own populace.

And you say you're helping from the outside keeping racist bigot enslaving white 'colonialists' who have stolen 'their land', at bay or to be hung on 'trees of justice' - the very same people who live there and know and understand its people more than you'd do in 10 lifetimes. Nope I'm afraid people like yourself (and all other justified outsiders) are the biggest problem for any developing nation.

Nice to have such a justified attitude.

[jj2007]

In short: Apartheid was so much better, and we should convince the Dutch to conquer the rest of Africa, for the sake of the black people, of course :t

[japheth]

that's not a religious point, but a political question.

No. I wasn't talking about politics. I was talking about the beliefs and interpretations of a forum member.

I understand that the term "religion" is a bit unfortunate, because some people will always imply a metaphysical being with this term. From this point of view, the term "religion" could be replaced by the more neutral term "ideology including a promise of salvation", but this sounds awful in English ( on the contrary, the German term "Ideologie mit Heilsversprechen" sounds quite nicely ). Also, I'm in doubt whether the forum member that I was talking to will prefer this replacement - since he obviously believes that his thinking is based on "facts" and "hard science".

[K_F]

In short: Apartheid was so much better, and we should convince the Dutch to conquer the rest of Africa, for the sake of the black people, of course :t

You either forget of don't know, that apartheid was bad for the whites as well.. or anybody that spoke up against the state, and there were many... and I'm sure the 'liberation movements' forgot to tell you this, as it's not in their interest !!

You could compare this to the old Russia, or what developed in America under bush (or barrack) where you start talking out against the gov policies. You get an unfriendly visit very quickly - not patriotic you know  ;)

Having blinkers only makes matter worse.

Beside the Dutch, we could also ask the French, German, British, Spanish, Portuguese, Italy... might as well make it a big Old Boys party..
 :icon_mrgreen:

[hutch--]

I have long been a fan of a small bit of German metaphysics ALA Emmanuel Kant with his description "antinomies". Literally it said with any range of divergent views on a given subject, at best only one can be right but all of them can be wrong.  :P

[Gunther]

Andreas,

I understand that the term "religion" is a bit unfortunate, because some people will always imply a metaphysical being with this term. From this point of view, the term "religion" could be replaced by the more neutral term "ideology including a promise of salvation", but this sounds awful in English ( on the contrary, the German term "Ideologie mit Heilsversprechen" sounds quite nicely ). Also, I'm in doubt whether the forum member that I was talking to will prefer this replacement - since he obviously believes that his thinking is based on "facts" and "hard science".

you're right: some parts of the discussion are ideologically blinded.

K_F,

what makes your point of view so harsh and implacable? Do you really think that the old Apartheid system was the right way? What about the criminal activities in that time, for example against Steve Biko, to name only this case?

Gunther

[K_F]

K_F,
..what makes your point of view so harsh and implacable? Do you really think that the old Apartheid system was the right way? What about the criminal activities in that time, for example against Steve Biko, to name only this case?

In that video, and myself, nowhere has it been said that apartheid was the right way..
Exposing the 'un-exposable' or 'what the world doesn't want to hear', shouldn't be construed as support for the old way.

With regard to ZA (the original topic), the point is that mandela and his cronies have stuffed up bad, and continues to do so.
We come from apartheid.. we know how bad it is and it's now worse than apartheid.

What the previous regime did, is already mild in comparison to what the cANCer are doing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marikana_miners%27_strike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O56d-xd8AuM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botEmqHMHu4

.. and this is but a few examples in a 'civilised' part of africa, run by your world hero, nelson mandela and/or his cronies..  what a verybad joke.

No I'm afraid the world must get over apartheid.. there's a big new problem, well actually not new one.. it's always been there and that pastor Manning is just exposing for the blind eyes (He is a crackpot..and 'entertaining', but he's 'on target' with the ZA problem). So in the end something can be done about it, to make things better - but then a lot of people don't want that ?

Many times I mention to my family that Steve Biko would turn in his grave if he knew this is what he died for?
Hopefully in the next election, 2014, we'll see the cANCer losing significant support to the DA, eventually losing altogether, and then maybe we can institute a civil 'war' crimes tribunal on the ex state 'dickheads'.
 ;)

[nidud]

deleted

[K_F]

This could be applied by military intervention, sanctions and alienation from global communities, or disarmament of local criminals.

Nah.. I'm afraid none of that will work..
Foreign military intervention always falters in africa - The USA will tell you that.
Sanctions... they never worked during apartheid.. I know  ;), and it only hurts the people that it intended to help, and will play into the hands of the intended targets.

I think what it required is more awareness to the ZA cANCer problem, maybe pointing it out to those overseas who support the cANCer.
You don't have to target nelson (he's past it), but less support for such things in his name, as it's just a BS thing from the cANCer to bolster support $$$ for their 'rotten lying functions'.
The new party, the DA is the best bet (I'm not political at all) as it a mix of all peoples (maybe the true rainbow nation), with higher education standards than the current regime - They'll will make the difference.

As soon as a clear world message is sent the better.

I thank you for your time
 :t

[japheth]

There are two levels of racisms. One is the local idiot ...

Nidud, your rants are awful ... you sound like a Sunday School teacher ... I'm confused because I thought this job has got extinct in "modern" Norway... 

IMO it may very well be possible that racism is useful - to facilitate separation of mankind in different populations so it's ensured that there is some competition - thus increasing genetic variability of the human genom and make the species more "healthy".

I understand that this "biologistic" view is fiercly rejected by those folks who work very hard to become "beautiful souls" and to make the world a "better place for all people" - I guess that you can't help thinking this way if you believe in this weird delusion called "social progress".