Never a True-er word spoken about ZA than this clip

[Farabi]

It seems the video is a self critique for the black people. White people has been dominating from a milenia not only because of their strength, but also wisdowm and knowledge. I know about dark age, and I think each race has it own problem within this area. Only wisdom, knowledge, that can bring back sovereignity for a person.

But I personally believe that there is one God, creating us all to serve Him alone, and He told us to compete on good deeds, not hurting each others. I think we get used to this proverb, "How you want to be treated, and you treat it to another self, that is good deeds". Racism has no place in Indonesia, we once fell into racism too on the late of 1990, but people has understand that it was has no value and it was not our root culture. In my daily life, I had lots of friends with different of skin colors, I like to have friend with white man in here, because I used to had friend with white skin since I was still a kids, they very nice to me. Even I though I was had a white skin, and alway love a girls with white skin, even my wife had a white skin while Im brown.

[K_F]

 
White skin is not that bad  ;)

We have a saying here.. Once you go black, you're not going back.

Another little 'dark' secret if you will.
During the height of apartheid, it was well known that the arch-supporters of the regime were having affairs across the colour line - at thing they termed as immoral = The Immorality Act.
We had fun with the Afrikaner about this saying that they had 'black blood' in them - we'd call them 7 percenters. This used to freak them out - anything to get at them.
There were cross colour line relationships going on all the time here, as we were not as separated, as is made out in the old newsreels and papers.

And if you think the Afrikaner was/is bad.. don't.. the core of the anti-apartheid movement in the country came out of deep Afrikanerdom = this is equivalent to saying some of the klu-klux clan rejected their own ideas of racism - makes you think.

 

[nidud]

deleted

[jj2007]

IMO it may very well be possible that racism is useful - to facilitate separation of mankind in different populations so it's ensured that there is some competition - thus increasing genetic variability of the human genom and make the species more "healthy".

From a purely technocratic point of view, the argument may help to understand why there is genetic variety. However, it has been used by Hitler's "scientists" to justify the slaughtering of Jews, Roma and various other groups. Since then, not even your friend Hayek would have used this argument any more.

Evolutionary and social progress comes from co-operation, not from competition. Being intelligent and strong means nothing if you don't have the capacity to collaborate.

Not so sure about the evolutionary part (it's controversial), but certainly a Wild West mentality does no longer fit into a modern society. There is a reason why big companies want teamworkers, not lonely fighters. Which does not exclude a certain, healthy dose of competition, but that has nothing to do with the dumb racism that shines through in, for example, that black priest's ramblings. If God had a more credible representation on Earth, he would have been excommunicated immediately ;-)

[japheth]

However, it has been used by Hitler's "scientists" to justify the slaughtering of Jews, Roma and various other groups. Since then, not even your friend Hayek would have used this argument any more.

Godwin's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)  has stroken once again.  :icon_mrgreen:

[hutch--]

Ok, so have I got it right, "Only a NAZI would say something like that."

[Gunther]

Andreas,

Godwin's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)  has stroken once again.  :icon_mrgreen:

it's not a question of Godwin's law. You've written:

IMO it may very well be possible that racism is useful - to facilitate separation of mankind in different populations so it's ensured that there is some competition - thus increasing genetic variability of the human genom and make the species more "healthy".

Your "useful racism" reminds me fatal to the arguments of Paul Broca in the 19th Century. This extremely poor methods has well described Steven Jay Gould in his book The Mismeasure of Man. Another example is the affair of Sir Cyril Burt, who falsified data to substantiate its position. That list can be continued without any problems. This then results in a considerable number of biologistic scammers and counterfeiters. From these murky sources (Broca, Agassiz, Morton etc), the  ideology of the Nazis fed. This is well known and has nothing to do with manslaughter arguments.

And for Jochen: There was nothing new or original to the ideology of the Nazis. All their arguments they have stolen from various sites and mixed in eclectic ways. Even their symbol, the swastika, they stole from the Sanskrit.

Gunther

[japheth]

Your "useful racism" reminds me fatal ...

Gunther, I'm afraid you are a little confused. I agree that "racism" and "racial ideology" ( in German = Rassenkunde? ) share a common linguistic root - and that too much "consumption" of the latter may lead to the first. But besides this analogy these terms are very different beasts. I'd like to go into details and start to teach the differences between "racism may be useful..." and "racial ideology may be useful...", but...

... the verb "to teach" brings me to my second criticism:  you share the very same little flaw with my friend Nidud: you sound like a teacher ( Ok, I admit that I know - from your own words - that you actually are one ). Teacher is a nice and good job, no question about that, but  just don't forget that you are not talking to little kids in this forum. 

This is well known and has nothing to do with manslaughter arguments.

Sorry, but in what context did I use the term "manslaughter"?

[hutch--]

There is an interesting inverse of Godwin's law. What happens if the situation described actually mirrors behaviour characterised in the Nazi era ? Godwin's law acts as a sanitising method against such comparisons.

In much the same way as "conspiracy theory" was delegated to the nonsense arena where disagreement with conventional wisdom was passed off in this manner, performing acts (by governments of whatever persuasion) that are of the same nature as the Nazi regime gets passed off as an example of Godwin's law.

[Gunther]

Andreas,

Sorry, but in what context did I use the term "manslaughter"?

I would have written better thought-terminating cliché, which is a phrase intended to kill any further discussion or a plain and simple  "Totschlagsargument" that kills every discussion. I hope that's clear.

... the verb "to teach" brings me to my second criticism:  you share the very same little flaw with my friend Nidud: you sound like a teacher ( Ok, I admit that I know - from your own words - that you actually are one ). Teacher is a nice and good job, no question about that, but  just don't forget that you are not talking to little kids in this forum. 

I don't forget that I'm not talking to little kids. Furthermore, I know that no one is a pillar of wisdom. But your term racism is useful sounds suspiciously. To put that in a nutshell has nothing to do with school mastery. It's very simple: If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck then it is a duck. In that sense is racism only racism (with a cultural background, of course). But your distinction between racism and racial ideology sounds like splitting hairs. I think these are two sides of the same coin. And again: The "scientific" and "intellectual" background of the "Theory" are lies and deception.

Gunther

[japheth]

But your term racism is useful sounds suspiciously.

Sorry, but I assume a lot of so-called destructive or "evil" things useful: hate, greed, fear, mistrust, envy, death, pain ... and also xenophobia or chauvinism. If any of those emotions or attitudes wouldn't be useful, it simply would never had a chance to evolve.

Of course is is allowed to ask if all of those things are still useful in a "modern" society. But in such a case you most likely will also have to ask (yourself?) if it is in man's power to "eliminate" them. I'm not a believer in humanism, so I don't think that you can create a "new" and "better" man by education ( or manipulation ).

I never made a secret of my convictions - the citation in my signature does actually reveal a lot - if you have a certain level of education in philosophy.

[jj2007]

I never made a secret of my convictions - the citation in my signature does actually reveal a lot

It does, it does... but remember Nietzsche is dead, while you are still alive. It would be a loss for society (well, at least for the assembly community) if a talented person like you got darwinised by somebody with a genetically superior muscle dotation - there are still some bugs to be fixed in JWasm, right?

[Gunther]

Andreas,

I never made a secret of my convictions - the citation in my signature does actually reveal a lot - if you have a certain level of education in philosophy.

you can be sure that Thus Spoke Zarathustra (Also sprach Zarathustra) is in my bookshelf, side by side with Aristoteles, Sokrates, Schopenhauer, Kant, Hegel and a lot of others. By the way, Philosophy is a good catchword:

I'm not a believer in humanism, so I don't think that you can create a "new" and "better" man by education ( or manipulation ).

It's not a question of creation a "new" and "better" man; all these attempts are failed. In my point of view is that the right approach:

If man is shaped by environment, his environment must be made human. (Wenn der Mensch von den Umständen gebildet wird, so muß man die Umstände menschlich bilden.) MECW, p. 263

By the way, it was Nietzsche, who wrote of the Übermensch (German for Overman, Overhuman, Above-Human, Superman, Super-human). Do you recognize the contradiction or is that your kind of the transvaluation of values (Umwertung aller Werte)?

Gunther

[Gunther]

Jochen,

It does, it does... but remember Nietzsche is dead, while you are still alive. It would be a loss for society (well, at least for the assembly community) if a talented person like you got darwinised by somebody with a genetically superior muscle dotation - there are still some bugs to be fixed in JWasm, right?

it's not a good argument that Nietzsche is dead. Nietzsche is still worth reading, which widens the mental horizon. For detailed studies, I recommend his religion critical texts, for example Menschliches, Allzumenschliches. Ein Buch für freie Geister. Moreover, we're inside the Colosseum. That Andreas deals with Philosophy, also shows that he isn't a professional idiot. He is interested in these issues. Your reference to jWasm is inappropriate at this point, because Andreas makes a good job by maintaining the assembler and other useful tools in his spare time.

Gunther 

[jj2007]

Your reference to jWasm is inappropriate at this point, because Andreas makes a good job by maintaining the assembler and other useful tools in his spare time.

Gunther

OMG, I forgot the irony tags again ::)

So I will explain it: One problem with evolution is that it is blind for beauty, intelligence and similar valuable features. So it might well happen to Andreas that somebody with a better "fit" (e.g. more muscles) pushes him down à la Nietzsche, and thus the World loses JWasm. I would be very sad if that happens. Evolution can be real evil, y'know.