Author Topic: Apple's most famous source code  (Read 8759 times)

Gunther

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Re: Apple's most famous source code
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2014, 09:02:13 PM »
Hi Mark,

Edsger Dykstra notwithstanding, I believe there is a place for gotos. I worked in the Windows division at Microsoft for five years, and I seem to recall seeing a few gotos in the Windows source code.

good point. You're right. See also my link in reply #6.

Gunther
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.

jj2007

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Re: Apple's most famous source code
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2014, 04:59:15 AM »
Edsger Dykstra notwithstanding, I believe there is a place for gotos.

Dykstra (1975): It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.

He wrote that at a time when C/C++ were not yet invented :badgrin:

Quote
FORTRAN —"the infantile disorder"—, by now nearly 20 years old, is hopelessly inadequate*) for whatever computer application you have in mind today: it is now too clumsy, too risky, and too expensive to use.

PL/I —"the fatal disease"— belongs more to the problem set than to the solution set.

The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.

APL is a mistake, carried through to perfection. It is the language of the future for the programming techniques of the past: it creates a new generation of coding bums.

No word about Assembler & Pascal, though. By the way, some 18 years ago I had a single Goto in 15,000+ lines of BASIC code. It served to jump over a memory area reserved for the injection of 7kBytes of 68000 assembler code ;-)

Nowadays I use GOTO quite often. Try
GOTO equ <jmp>
 ;)

*) 39 years later, I know quite a number of top scientists who are working with FORTRAN. Not myself, though, although I liked Fortran IV when I worked with a PDP-11 in 1980.

TWell

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Re: Apple's most famous source code
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2014, 05:44:56 AM »
Was FORTRAN first standard high level programming language ?

dedndave

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Re: Apple's most famous source code
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2014, 06:00:47 AM »
algol maybe ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL

i guess fortran is the oldest
that makes me feel old, because that's what was required in the engineering core when i went to school   :(

Mark44

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Re: Apple's most famous source code
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2014, 06:17:24 AM »
Edsger Dykstra notwithstanding, I believe there is a place for gotos.

Dykstra (1975): It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.

He wrote that at a time when C/C++ were not yet invented :badgrin:

Quote
FORTRAN —"the infantile disorder"—, by now nearly 20 years old, is hopelessly inadequate*) for whatever computer application you have in mind today: it is now too clumsy, too risky, and too expensive to use.
Tell that to the engineers and physicists. In its defense, Fortran has improved mightily since the Fortran IV or Fortran 77 days. A strength of Fortran in comparison to other (i.e., C or C++) languages is its relative ease in being parallel-ized, which is harder to do when there are multiple ways (via pointers) to get at a block of memory. As I recall, though, in Fortran 95 they introduced pointer-type variables. Some of you who have used this language more recently than I have can set straight any misconceptions I might have.
Another strength of Fortran is the prevalence of computation libraries such as BLAS, LINPACK, and many others.

One of the things that irks me the most about Fortran coders, is that many of them have learned their "craft" from someone with little knowledge of computer science. The compiler has no problem reading their code and producing an executable, but God help any humans who have to read their code. Things that make their code "write-only" are using gibberish variable names of one or two letters, writing very long arithmetic expressions without any white space, no or random indentation of control structure bodies, using archaic Fortran IV or Fortran 77 constructs such as DO 100 I=1,10, and so on.
Quote from: jj2007
PL/I —"the fatal disease"— belongs more to the problem set than to the solution set.
Don't know much about PL/I, but my first programming class (1972) was taught using PL/C, a subset of PL/I. (I believe the "C" in the name stood for "compact.") I did OK in the class, but overall it wasn't a pleasant experience - write the code on punch cards (including job control language cards at both ends of the PL/C card deck), and wait a minimum of 24 hours for the output (printed on 18" wide fanfold paper). Many times I had a syntax error, so the output was a core dump of several pages of gobbledy-gook.
Quote from: jj2007

Quote
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.
How else can we get English majors to write code?  :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: jj2007
Quote
APL is a mistake, carried through to perfection. It is the language of the future for the programming techniques of the past: it creates a new generation of coding bums.
Not to mention you need a special keyboard (see the IBM 2741 keyboard shown here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language))
Quote from: jj2007

No word about Assembler & Pascal, though. By the way, some 18 years ago I had a single Goto in 15,000+ lines of BASIC code. It served to jump over a memory area reserved for the injection of 7kBytes of 68000 assembler code ;-)

Nowadays I use GOTO quite often. Try
GOTO equ <jmp>
 ;)

*) 39 years later, I know quite a number of top scientists who are working with FORTRAN. Not myself, though, although I liked Fortran IV when I worked with a PDP-11 in 1980.

Gunther

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Re: Apple's most famous source code
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2014, 07:16:43 AM »
Hi TWell

Was FORTRAN first standard high level programming language ?

yes it is and widespread.

Gunther
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them.