Author Topic: 10000 refugees  (Read 11894 times)

caballero

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2015, 11:15:26 PM »
> Siekmanski
I didn't say that the US was blameless. I say that we all have a part of it, even it is more comfortable toss it to another. The problem comes from many decades ago with extreme relaxation with what came and what we could see that we already had. They have been necessary several killings on European soil to move something (not the first)

> Hutch
The problem Aznar has more than that. When one is tiny and has a problem, if someone offers help to you, then you have to pay. The tiny island of Perejil may be small but there were great turbulence regarding that in those days. USA offered aid to Spain and then requested his counterpart, that's the point. By the way, on that occasion France was positioned against Spain.
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dedndave

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2015, 11:42:29 PM »
the problem that Hutch brought up is really at the core of most of our problems
the governments don't represent the people, as they should - or as they were intended

this applies to both sides of the muslim issue

another problem is that the masses are brainwashed
again - this applies to every country i can think of

here in the US, we are raised to believe the US is a great country
they even tell us outright lies about the beginnings of the country
the rebels are portrayed as heros, rather than "traitors of England" - lol
we are taught that it's heroic to fight for the country,
honorable to die for the country, and so on
what they don't tell you is that, as a soldier, you are really just a pawn for some rich fuck to become richer
the masses fight the wars for those in power, not always for the freedom or safety of their country

the same is true of muslims
their leaders hoard the wealth while the masses live in mud huts
then, they tell the masses that the US is to blame, and give them guns and bombs
no wonder they are pissed off

point being, i try not to blame the masses (although, it is hard sometimes)
the guy with a bomb strapped to his ass is being manipulated, just like nearly everyone else
he would probably much rather stay at home with his family and raise his kids

these wars shouldn't be about muslim vs christian
or about arab vs white (or black or oriental or whatever)
these wars should be about the power hungry assholes vs the masses

Siekmanski

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2015, 11:48:55 PM »
Hi Dave,

Totally agree with you.

Just follow this and wait and see if the power hungry assholes get this done in Europe.
And see if our votes count.....

Across Europe, the resistance against the TTIP treaty:

"The right to profit for companies in this Convention held over the democratic rights of European citizens. It would be bizarre if energy companies later on be able to fight in court the democratic laws and regulations that protect the environment and health. "

TTIP stands for Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. The purpose of the convention is to take away as much as possible trade restrictions. There are three dangers:

1.The removal of trade restrictions is tantamount to the elimination of standards that are meant to protect civilians. All sorts of standards are under pressure, for example in the areas of employment, sustainability and safety. A race to the bottom.......

2.The treaty contains a chapter on investment (ISDS). This allows companies to sue countries via a special court if they feel that they are being impeded by national policies. High claims are expected. The rule of law is passed, democracy is being eroded.

3.De realization of the treaty has been very shadowy and undemocratic. The House of Representatives can hardly control the process. It is questionable whether national parliaments at all should give approval.

4.We do not want American conditions, stop an economic NATO.

dedndave

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2015, 11:52:45 PM »
same thing here - i haven't met anyone that wants this treaty to go through
but - it's being passed without our consent, without a chance to vote on it

i wish that people wouldn't be so down on american citizens, too
the vast majority of us do not want these wars
we don't want innocent people to be harmed
it is our government that does all this crap - and we have no control over our government

Siekmanski

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2015, 12:04:16 AM »
I have nothing against the citizens of our countries.  :t
We are not that different at all, also we have no control over our government.

I'm against the financially motivated so called "non violent" crimes committed by business and government professionals.

sinsi

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2015, 12:21:14 AM »
it is our government that does all this crap - and we have no control over our government
That is one of the most chilling things I have read. Not "sad but true" but "horrifying but true".
We seem to be on the same path over here.

2.The treaty contains a chapter on investment (ISDS). This allows companies to sue countries via a special court if they feel that they are being impeded by national policies. High claims are expected. The rule of law is passed, democracy is being eroded.
Search Techdirt.com for ISDS as well as TPP and TTIP.

We brought in plain packaging for cigarettes and the tobacco companies sued the government. Lost, lost their appeal, lost in the High Court. Nowhere to go.
So they sued us from Hong Kong, because we has a treaty with them with an ISDS clause. Even got Ukraine to join, and out import/export ratio with them is 0:0  ::)
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anunitu

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2015, 02:57:03 AM »
In reply to Hutch,about voters. I remember an interview with Dick Chany,he was asked about the percentage against the war(Iraq) and he replied so what,we make the decisions(Kind of dismissing the American people)

dedndave

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2015, 04:41:35 AM »
exactly - the best we are given is the illusion of control
in our elections, we are given a choice
but - none of the choices are good
no matter who gets elected, we get the same shit in the end

jj2007

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2015, 05:13:07 AM »
Even got Ukraine to join, and out import/export ratio with them is 0:0  ::)
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Tobacco

I start liking John Oliver :t

Re TTIP, one aspect is the erosion of the tiny rest of democracy and national sovereignty via "private" courts, but what upsets me equally is the pile of lies that they use to justify that crap. Does anybody, in Mexico for example, remember what they promised when they pushed NAFTA down your throats?

hutch--

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2015, 06:29:45 AM »
We suffer a similar version, the TPP and sad to say our conservative government just rolled over and was shafted like all the rest as it gives foreign corporations control over governments with populations having no control of what has been done.
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jj2007

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2015, 07:06:16 AM »
My other network pushed me to see these videos:

The European Refugee Crisis and Syria Explained
Iraq Explained -- ISIS, Syria and War In a Nutshell

Exceptionally well done, but others should judge how correct the information is. For example, the figure of 800,000 refugees quoted there is already much higher according to more recent estimates; and the role of the Sunni countries (mainly Saudi Arabia and Qatar) in the Syrian "civil" war is imho vastly underrated.

hutch--

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2015, 10:16:54 AM »
Dave,

> i wish that people wouldn't be so down on american citizens

Its a reasonably simple distinction, there are 2 Americas, MAIN street and WALL street, the MAIN street are the vast majority of ordinary Americans while WALL street are a bunch of ruthless greed bastards assett stripping MAIN street, destroying their jobs, driving them out of their houses, shutting down businesses and so on but happy enough to keep sending young Americans off to some sh*thole in the middle east or Africa to get killed just to keep some sh*tty war going to make a buck. To add insult to injury, their profits go overseas to places like Dubai and as the US government gets further into debt, the nation's infrastructure is decaying with bridges falling down and back when New Orleans was flooded, it was foreigners who shelled out a lot of money to try and help the poor to at least have somewhere to live.

The great con that WALL street is selling is that ordinary Americans are responsible for the sh*t that they do when in fact ordinary folks have no voice at all in US foreign policy, WALL street and all that it entails (military/industrial complex) long ago bought and paid for Congress, the Pentagon, CIA and a few others and if ordinary people disagree, they risk brutal police violence or a bullet. For the little that is worth you are not alone, in the UK its worse, Canada may improve after getting rid of Harper and we are at risk here in OZ because our government kisses the same arse as yours.
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K_F

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2015, 04:38:12 PM »
Quote
i wish that people wouldn't be so down on american citizens..
Don't let it get you down.. I get harrased coz I'm white... and blamed for things I didn't 'invent' or control.
You stand up to them with solid reason, and show that you take no 'cr.p' from anyone.. works wonders.
 ;)
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caballero

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2015, 08:26:21 PM »
i wish that people wouldn't be so down on american citizens
Personally, I like americans. If I can say, in particular, you are a very nice person, in my opinion, the alma mater of this forum :t
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hutch--

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Re: 10000 refugees
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2015, 03:35:07 AM »
Van,

> I get harrased coz I'm white..

These are the normal joys of being a white anglo saxon, male, protestant, heterosexual, car owner and smoker. You are responsible for the thousands of years of atrocities, discrimination and the like and worse still, you are used to it. What's new ?  :biggrin:
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