Author Topic: Take your pick  (Read 7842 times)

anunitu

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Re: Take your pick
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2016, 07:06:25 PM »
@nidud, you seem to be pointing out the problems with Trump's idea to "send them all back home" (11 million illegals). No question, it's not going to happen, for both practical and humanitarian reasons. A vote for Trump is NOT a vote for a plan: rather, it's a vote for an attitude, which can be summed up as "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore".

@Zen, people like me, hutch, anunitu and many others have a very simple plan to handle the disasters you envision: die of old age before they come. What's your plan?

I have been planning my escape for Decades,almost 7 decades at last count. I think I am finely close to making it work!!!!

nidud

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Re: Take your pick
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2016, 09:03:25 PM »
@nidud, you seem to be pointing out the problems with Trump's idea to "send them all back home" (11 million illegals). No question, it's not going to happen, for both practical and humanitarian reasons. A vote for Trump is NOT a vote for a plan: rather, it's a vote for an attitude, which can be summed up as "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore".

A bit late now but the people who get shafted still exist, still mad as hell. The problem with this, at least for now, is they still have the right to vote.


rrr314159

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Re: Take your pick
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2016, 01:57:41 AM »
caballero wrote: Russia should be a natural ally in Europe. It would even be good that at some point enter the European Union. The idea of finding a good lord doesn't comfort me, in fact one of the ideas of European integration is to be autonomous / free in the world.

The problem is that EU isn't working out so well. If it did a good job, and its member countries were happy, and it dumped NATO and stopped that sort of aggression I can envision Russia joining in a few decades. Europe could take its natural place as one of the big powers. But as things are going, forget it. Europe must get away from reliance on US and have its own military, equal to others, if it wants peace in the long term.

@Yuri,

In modern world the big guys fight only puppets, avoiding direct confrontation. The case I referred to is typical. NATO / US is installing anti-missile missile system in Poland. As I understand it, the excuse is to defend against Iranian missiles? But seems clear it's actually about Russia; that's what Putin thinks. Once the installation is there it can easily be converted to offensive missiles which could attack Russian cities in 5 minutes. That's the basic picture anyway, I might be off on some detail.

It's a replay of the Cuban missile crisis. Soviet Union installed missiles in Cuba, capable of threatening USA mainland. Kennedy didn't attack USSR, but Cuba. Similarly in this case Poland will be in the cross-hairs if this situation goes critical, in 2018 as I understand it. Of course this sort of thing has been going on a long time. Vietnam, Angola, Taiwan, many places have been the "puppets" where the big countries face off. I see no reason it won't happen again. The Cold War is coming back; Ukraine is the first round. Russia and China need "safe" countries on their borders, especially in this age of nukes. China can't allow Taiwan, and other small nearby countries like Vietnam, to be loyal to the West, and Russia can't allow NATO / EU right on its borders either. Would the US allow Venezuela or nearby countries to accept Chinese missiles? No way.

So in the near future, 40 years say, Russia must deal with Europe, not US. Now Europe is actually too big to be just a "puppet" of the US although it seems to behave that way sometimes. Russia can't overwhelm them casually, as though they were Vietnam, Cuba, Angola. Nor do I think Putin wants Europe: who needs such headaches? What he wants is a friendly Europe, especially the part on his borders, the former Soviet Union countries.

The divide between Russia and Europe - or, if you will, the "rest of" Europe, counting Russia as part of Europe - goes back more than 1000 years. The first contact I've read about is when Charlemagne traded with "Russ" about 800 AD. They got along fine but each definitely thought the other "foreign". And it's been roughly like that since then, except for a few wars here and there. Peter the Great made the effort to "Europeanize" Russia, never understood why they didn't really accept him. From my perspective the two peoples are similar, they live close to each other, they should be friends. And they would be friends except for NATO. If NATO continues its aggression Russia will have to flex its muscles.

Will Russia ever "conquer" Europe? Hard to imagine. But it's even harder to imagine them putting up with unfriendly "puppets" on their borders.

Will war happen between Russia and US, in maybe 60 years or so? It's possible. Russia will have China on its side, though perhaps not as an active participant. By the way, it will start in the Middle East and spread from there. But it's easier to imagine a new Cold War. If - when - that develops, Europe will have to choose sides. I recommend they choose the Russian side. I can't see the US deciding to "live and let live": our owners just aren't made that way. Don't kid yourself - they want the whole world. When they smile at you and say how much they love you, that's when you should trust them least.

None of this affects me, I won't have to "learn Russian", although I'd love to do so.
I am NaN ;)

Yuri

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Re: Take your pick
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2016, 02:05:03 PM »
rrr314159
I agree with your reasoning, of course, my post was a joke in reply to yours about Putin conquering Europe.