Author Topic: Lute music from a MIDI file  (Read 452 times)

hutch--

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4807
  • Mnemonic Driven API Grinder
    • The MASM32 SDK
Lute music from a MIDI file
« on: April 26, 2017, 04:59:01 AM »
This is a MIDI file from the public domain converted to an MP3 and re-engineered to sound something like music. I am in debt to Alex for both the original idea of hunting up MIDI files and a number of suggestions on re-engineering MIDI files to sound something like lute music.

I forgot to drop the volume so it might be a bit too loud.

hutch at movsd dot com
http://www.masm32.com    :biggrin:  :biggrin:

LordAdef

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 07:43:56 AM »
I love Dowland!

Not bad Hutch!

FORTRANS

  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 944
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 10:07:49 PM »
Hi Steve,

This is a MIDI file from the public domain converted to an MP3 and re-engineered to sound something like music. I am in debt to Alex for both the original idea of hunting up MIDI files and a number of suggestions on re-engineering MIDI files to sound something like lute music.

I forgot to drop the volume so it might be a bit too loud.

   Well, on my old, somewhat challenged setup, it started out a bit
garbled.  Then settled down to a good playback.  I have my speakers
set low so it sounds rather good.  Does sound better than your
average MIDI by a good bit.

Congrats,

Steve N.

LordAdef

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 02:14:33 AM »
Hutch, it will depend on how much you´re willing to perfect this. But a nice trick to humanize these midi files is to go making small variations in the "notes velocity". They go from 0 to 127 and they change the "volume" so to speak. Very often you find the same values for notes but in real world there should be some variations to those.

note 1: vel 100  -> you 90
note 2: vel 100  -> you 101
note 3: vel 100  -> you 96
etc...

You get a nice result by doing such moves.

Cubase (my DAW) has a programmable section where you can do logic moves. I programmed a Humanize Macro that does exactly this, randomize velocities and note positions.


Another one: before you convert it to audio, try and make some small variations in the tempo track (count in BPM). Say the song is in Bpm 100. Make some tempo variations around it. Try to slow down at music cadenzas.


Another thing: If you intend to reproduce a Lute playing, you should narrow your stereo field. In your recording you have the effect of 2 instruments playing separately (which is not a problem obviously). If you narrow the stereo field of the player and apply a wider reverb, you get a different result.

Just some tips from a friend. I hope that helps

hutch--

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4807
  • Mnemonic Driven API Grinder
    • The MASM32 SDK
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 01:51:35 PM »
Thanks Alex,

This stuff is very useful. I have so far only modified the MP3 conversions. The suggestion to narrow the stereo field makes sense as the separation does not fit a single source instrument. The only thing I have not worked out how to do so far is individually edit each stereo track as many of the samples I have to work with voice an extra instrument that is too loud over the emulated string instrument. I can drop the volume on the entire stereo side which works OK in some tracks but its not successful on all tracks.

I understand the velocity change and will have to work out how to do it. Funny enough I well understand "phrasing" old music as I used to play guitar in both classical and flamenco before I had a slight finger injury that put an end to it.
hutch at movsd dot com
http://www.masm32.com    :biggrin:  :biggrin:

LordAdef

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2017, 07:03:36 PM »
Are you using Reaper? Let me know and I find out how to do the velocity editing for you

hutch--

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4807
  • Mnemonic Driven API Grinder
    • The MASM32 SDK
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2017, 07:53:47 PM »
So far Audacity has been working well for me, just finished restoring 12 Ramon Montoya tracks from 1936 which you imagine was a ton of fun. I have not worn it out yet and a wave form editor is something very familiar as I used to build audio equipment long ago and was used to use an oscilloscope.
hutch at movsd dot com
http://www.masm32.com    :biggrin:  :biggrin:

LordAdef

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2017, 08:01:34 PM »
 Nice!

but where are you dealing with midi? Does Audacity handle midi?

hutch--

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4807
  • Mnemonic Driven API Grinder
    • The MASM32 SDK
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 09:11:33 PM »
Not in any useful way. I found a MIDI editor but have not learnt how to use it. So far I have only converted them to MP3 then worked on the MP3 as waveforms. The other problem is I doubt most of the midi tracks I have would not have individual tracks. They are recorded in stereo which you can see from the 2 waveform tracks but I don't think they can be edited back to their original form.
hutch at movsd dot com
http://www.masm32.com    :biggrin:  :biggrin:

guga

  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 826
  • Assembly is a state of art.
    • RosAsm
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 10:22:36 PM »
For audio edition on a more professional way, even if you are dealing with midi, you could use Melodyne Editor (you can adjust all the tones, notes, pitchs etc), IsotopeRX (Which i prefer). Not sure if they opens midi, but converting from mdi to wav or mp3 is easy.

I often  use audacity too, but more like a complement of adjusts of the others tools i use together when editing audio.
Coding in Assembly requires a mix of:
80% of brain, passion, intuition, creativity
10% of programming skills
10% of alcoholic levels in your blood.

My Code Sites:
http://rosasm.freeforums.org
http://winasm.tripod.com

LordAdef

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 12:01:13 AM »
For audio edition on a more professional way, even if you are dealing with midi, you could use Melodyne Editor (you can adjust all the tones, notes, pitchs etc), IsotopeRX (Which i prefer). Not sure if they opens midi, but converting from mdi to wav or mp3 is easy.

I often  use audacity too, but more like a complement of adjusts of the others tools i use together when editing audio.

Hi Guga, these softwares are in fact really good, but none of them are suited for the tasks Hutch needs.

Melodyne is a fantastic tuning app, and RX is more like a "magical" filter. We at Tv Globo use RX a lot in order to remove unwanted noises from field recordings.

What Hutch could do, if already in the audio world (and before applying reverb), is to apply a Stereo Expander (Audacity may have one, otherwise there are some free options available).

Use the Stereo Expander not to widen the stereo field, but towards negative values, towards mono. This will glue things together as a single source around the centre. Then, apply reverb to put the Lute in a stereo room.

I'm not familiar with Audacity. But I'll have a look and check it out.

hutch--

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4807
  • Mnemonic Driven API Grinder
    • The MASM32 SDK
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2017, 01:28:49 AM »
Something that has been useful is being able to change the track length with an option that Audacity has called "sliding time scale/pitch shift" and I have just used it successfully on a number of lute tracks which shifted them from being a bit dreary to brisk and fast. A reasonably large amount of reverb improves the sustain and I have been using a preset equalisation to change the profile to improve the presence. Adding 6db to the treble gives the stringed instrument enough cut to be heard through other instruments and on a few tracks I have dropped the volume on the channel that carried the bulk of the additional accompaniment.

Audacity has the save options of either stereo, joined stereo or mono but I have not found much use of it yet. Most of the track I have worked on so far have distinct stereo separation and with multi-voice tracks it works fine. I do well understand what stringed instruments sound like as I studied flamenco years ago until I had a slight hand injury that ruined it but guitars, lutes and the like are things I know what they should sound like and they are rarely ever soft and muddy sounding like much of the recorded stuff I hear. A lute is not as powerful as a good classical or flamenco guitar but they are very crisp and bright if played properly.

As a trailing comment, many of the MIDI files I have worked on are rather badly put together, you have to fix starts and stops, effectively equalise much of the output, trim junk of both ends but if they were played well enough you can fix most of it.
hutch at movsd dot com
http://www.masm32.com    :biggrin:  :biggrin:

guga

  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 826
  • Assembly is a state of art.
    • RosAsm
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2017, 02:49:53 AM »
Steve, audacity maybe ok for you to use then. It has available several plugins for free. Some tutorials also explain how to setup correctly the equalizer when you are dealing, for example, with human voices. Depending the settings you make you can clean the voices in order to make it sounds a bit more natural and without eventual noises that it may exists.

For instance, my clean vocal equalization, i setup as the image below


There are other configurations you may find usefull, for example, setting them to looks like EMI 78, or also cutting off some high frequencies can work too to avoid metalization of the audio.

I never used the "sliding time scale/pitch shift" in Audacity before to compare. For adjusting the pitch or the time scale i use Isotope or even Sony Vegas can do it, expanding or shrinking part of the audio track in order to make minor adjustments of the audio tone, for example. But, i´ll take a look at this feature :)


Coding in Assembly requires a mix of:
80% of brain, passion, intuition, creativity
10% of programming skills
10% of alcoholic levels in your blood.

My Code Sites:
http://rosasm.freeforums.org
http://winasm.tripod.com

guga

  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 826
  • Assembly is a state of art.
    • RosAsm
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2017, 03:43:46 AM »
LordAdef

Yep, Isotope can do magic :)

I´m surprised you work at Globo. What a coincidence :) I use audio and video restoration tools on a regular daily basis. I´m a collector of old movies, 16mm films etc and recently i changed my former activity (lawyer) and opened a company for video restoration and online old/classic video rental (and eventually audio restoration and in the future, dubbing :) ).  It´s still on the very beginning, but i´m having some increadible ideas to put back our memories on the screen :)

In brazil we have a major problem concerning the dubbing. Nowadays we see more and more extremely low quality on the dubbing. New producers or directors working at dubb studios are simply ruining the old audio of the good old days of dubbing in Brazil. We miss (A lot) voices like the ones from herbert richers, Cinecastro, AiC São Paulo, VtiRio, Alamo etc. Today is a pain to hear any dubbed movie.

This is why i decided to open a firm related to movie restoration and rental, since people is missing the good old days of TV with the original brazilian audio from these studios. I sent some of my movies from my private collection to TV companies like Rede Brasil so they could at, least try to put them in air again. And now, with my new firm, i believe i can be able to improve this idea, restoring the material i have or can acquire from legal distributors or from places like Arquivo Nacional etc.

I´m trying to make some filters related to video edition in order to restore whatever is possible. For example, stabilizing, track objects, removing noises and scratches from video, deinterlacing them, colorizing old P&B films (a hard task to do automatically,  but it is possible to do) and for audio, cleaning old audio from Tv series or old movies, "lost" cartoons or 16 mm films in order to maintain the original aspect intact (referring the original voices of the dubbers) but with a high quality.

All of this restoration is a must because, unfortunately, we are seeing our culture slowing be killed by a wide range of reasons and what people are seeing today on TV (cable or opened) is a true shame in issues like the quality of the program and more specially the terrible new dubbing. Here we are seeing in the past years what we call "redublagem" which is simply destroying the old dub in order to put crap in it´s place. The excuse is because "poor' quality of old films, but it is a lie, because with the actual technology, more then 90% of the old films can have the audio restored.

Few TV companies still have the sensitivity to maintain the old dubbing, such as SBT, Globo (not always, since the joys of sessão da tarde was gone for ever  :greensml: , TCM, Band and some few ones in cable TV, but the vast majority of them are simply ruining our memories with this damn re-dubbing concept

Added to my love for old films, those are the main reasons why i created a firm that will (i hope) restore whatever is possible.

To you have an small idea of my love for old movies/films. Some years ago i´ve got from a australian friend a piece of what could be the only english dubbing track of a old Anime called fantomas. the audio was recorded on a old audio tape back in the 60's and fortunately my friend have this piece and sent to me. I restore this small audio (something around 10 or 15 seconds), cleaned what was possible, restored to the part of the video it was related and send back to him. He was so glad to see and hear those small few seconds, that he contacted a friend of him that worked at Channel 5 in australia to see if they could have more info of what happened to the  english audio. Unfortunately, for what he told me, the audio was sent back to japan in the late 60's and no one can find it again.

Btw..Steve, if you want and remember Phantoma, i can send to you the piece i´ve done to you have a small joy of flashback :)  :bgrin:

"Phantoma, warrior of Justice" remember ? :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 05:21:07 AM by guga »
Coding in Assembly requires a mix of:
80% of brain, passion, intuition, creativity
10% of programming skills
10% of alcoholic levels in your blood.

My Code Sites:
http://rosasm.freeforums.org
http://winasm.tripod.com

LordAdef

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: Lute music from a MIDI file
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 08:55:01 AM »
Quote
As a trailing comment, many of the MIDI files I have worked on are rather badly put together, you have to fix starts and stops, effectively equalise much of the output, trim junk of both ends but if they were played well enough you can fix most of it.

True, you need to dig in order to find good ones. Even those always need some adjustment.

It's nice to know you have this involvement to music playing. I find it fascinating this connection programmers have with music. it's above average.

I see you are ok but let me know if I can help somehow