Author Topic: €2,420 million fine  (Read 1469 times)

mineiro

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2017, 10:24:56 PM »
I can choose to be socialist, capitalist, neither, I can even create my own ideology.
If any of the chosen ideologies are not fair, I prefer to speak if there is corruption, so I believe it will fail.
People today know their rights but not their duties.
For example, create a global law in which the price of any and all food is reduced to half of its weight at the same time around the world.
In my view this will make poverty decline, the rich will not buy all food just because they can, while the poor will buy what they do not own.
The world does not have to be everyone's being poor, I like to see everyone being rich and free not to be.
In short, if we all learn to lose for the common good the end result will be all gaining, without suffering, without poverty.

For me, speaking with all the sincerity that I possess and praying to my God not to commit any injustice the root of the problem is in the human nature.
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

nidud

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2017, 10:27:55 PM »
There is no pattern, you are confusing correlation with causality.

So crushing the unions and licking the boots of oligarchs is still the right view.

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And Greeks don't "work" the longest hours, I have been in Greece many times - they did not reach the bottom of the valley for their "hard working" hours. :badgrin:

That will be the far-right view of it I guess.

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Statistics are not Greece's strongest point.

https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS

Average annual hours actually worked per worker in Germany: 1371, Greece: 2042.

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In short, I don't buy the assertion that working less produces more. Sometimes I work 80 hours per week (well, some people believe I spend my days doing nothing  ;)) and I know that I can't really reach my goals with less hours.

Well, there's at least a logical conclusion in that statement.

caballero

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2017, 11:45:52 PM »
> And if instead burn all money we triplicate all money?
In fact it happened and happens many times (and will happen). This image illustrate the consequence (well know history). A woman burning money en Germany at 1920s to get warming

In order to face the payments imposed to Germany after losing the First World War, his government issued huge sums of money. As a consequence, prices did not stop rising, translating into queues to buy basic necessities, there came a time when the value of the paper on which the bills were printed was higher than the nominal

> they work less and less but still manage to produce more and more
If this is the effective trend, let's all stop working and we will achieve infinite productivity.

I imagine that this has a lot to do with bringing the great work effort to Asia or others. In some countries of greater "ancestry" four nonsense are designed and then the hard work is done in others. Maybe productivity can be found there.

I have heard many times that in Europe it is considered incompetent to those who have to stay beyond 5 o'clock in the afternoon to finish their work. I can only say that I have returned home from work many times at 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning, hence I'm an incompetent.
En un lugar de la Mancha de cuyo nombre no quiero acordarme

aw27

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2017, 11:50:55 PM »
So crushing the unions and licking the boots of oligarchs is still the right view.
I will add a little bit to this famous Margaret Tatcher's:
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" or run out of oil (in Norway's case)

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https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS
Average annual hours actually worked per worker in Germany: 1371, Greece: 2042.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/nov/16/greece-eu-eurostat-statistics-fudge
How come? When I go to Germany there is nobody in the streets at night from Sunday to Thursday. Why are they so tired if they work so few hours?
Go to Greece, and everybody appears to do weekend's fun all over the week.


hutch--

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2017, 01:08:12 AM »
The problem we see here in OZ with conservative governments is that tax cuts for foreign corporations that take the money out of the country also involve spending less on the country's infrastructure, cuts to welfare, cuts to health, cuts to the military budget, cuts to foreign aid and the trickle down notions of giving more tax cuts to corporations has not generated more jobs, better incomes or better pricing, just the normal predatory corporate practices that go with conservative governments kissing the arse of foreign corporations.
hutch at movsd dot com
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jj2007

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2017, 01:18:30 AM »
Average annual hours actually worked per worker in Germany: 1371, Greece: 2042.

It is true that Germans don't work many hours, but that does not imply that Greek statistics have any correlation to reality.

nidud

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2017, 03:39:20 AM »
So crushing the unions and licking the boots of oligarchs is still the right view.
I will add a little bit to this famous Margaret Tatcher's:
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"

So crushing the unions and licking the boots of oligarchs is still the right view.

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or run out of oil (in Norway's case)

You mean or when capitalism run out of oil. After all the Norwegian government is a coalition of evangelicals, the Tea Party, liberals and conservatives; one of the most anti-socialist government in Europe. Neither Norway, Sweden, or Germany are socialistic countries but they still have strong unions.

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https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS
Average annual hours actually worked per worker in Germany: 1371, Greece: 2042.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/nov/16/greece-eu-eurostat-statistics-fudge

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) is not Greek statistics.

The link explain how the ruling elite colluded with banks to hide dept in order to become a member of the European Union. All this was done behind closed doors. The Greek economy finally imploded as a result of accumulating dept.

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How come? When I go to Germany there is nobody in the streets at night from Sunday to Thursday. Why are they so tired if they work so few hours? Go to Greece, and everybody appears to do weekend's fun all over the week.

Most likely a conspiracy where a bunch of communist colluding with Goldman Sachs and German banks to prove that capitalism doesn't work.

HSE

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2017, 04:48:04 AM »
When I go to Germany there is nobody in the streets at night ...

Are they C++ programming?   :biggrin:

There is a law: no matter the time you have,  activities fill it. And a lot of "recreational" activities are very often more demanding than true work.




mineiro

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2017, 05:11:58 AM »
Hello caballero
Something similar happened here, a nationalist president doubled the salary of the worker, the entrepreneurs then doubled the price of the products.
The president seemed to be benefactor while the businessmen as evildoers.
I am in favor of buying power rather than increasing the amount of paper.
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

jj2007

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2017, 05:23:15 AM »
The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) is not Greek statistics.

OECD != Greek statistics, that is certainly true. But the OECD do not collect data in Greece.

From your own Guardian link:
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Eurostat, the EU's independent statistical service, is alarmingly toothless. Its iterated mission is to "to provide the EU with a high-quality statistical information service". How can it achieve this most crucial task if it has only the data national governments give to work with? It is neither equipped nor allowed to collect crude data from member states.

nidud

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2017, 06:32:58 AM »
From your own Guardian link:

I didn't provide and Guardian link so please stop lying.

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Eurostat, the EU's independent statistical service, is alarmingly toothless. Its iterated mission is to "to provide the EU with a high-quality statistical information service". How can it achieve this most crucial task if it has only the data national governments give to work with? It is neither equipped nor allowed to collect crude data from member states.

So this proves that all Italians are untrustworthy and lazy?

jj2007

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2017, 06:38:10 AM »
I didn't provide and Guardian link so please stop lying.

You are right - I mistook your quote of the link with your own posting. My apologies.

mineiro

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2017, 01:27:41 PM »
Usa and Europe media (latim means medium, half) is controled by one(s) organization(s). What they think is what you think.
A lie tell 100 times means truth.  Imaginarium is gaining from reality, same threater, anothers actors. Dreamland instead of reality.
Today I have see 3 lies on tv stations of my country or just what I do not agree that they can't prove. :t
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

aw27

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2017, 03:09:22 PM »
So crushing the unions and licking the boots of oligarchs is still the right view.

I never said I am against the Unions, Unions are part of the system. What I said was that there are Unions that are street armed forces of political parties set to destroy the system. Are you seeing the difference?

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The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) is not Greek statistics.

Of course, they are! They use the raw data supplied by the Greeks - they have no other source but the Greeks themselves.  :badgrin:

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Most likely a conspiracy where a bunch of communist colluding with Goldman Sachs and German banks to prove that capitalism doesn't work.
Or some movement to improve Anders Breivik cell conditions. :badgrin:

nidud

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Re: €2,420 million fine
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2017, 11:13:38 PM »
I never said I am against the Unions, Unions are part of the system.

So there is such thing as society after all then. Well, I guess that's an improvement.

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What I said was that there are Unions that are street armed forces of political parties set to destroy the system.

Think you find it's the other way around. It is the unions who hold the power (the money) and they support political parties who promote policies that enhance working conditions and wages for their members.

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Are you seeing the difference?

Not really, no.

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Of course, they are! They use the raw data supplied by the Greeks - they have no other source but the Greeks themselves.  :badgrin:

As for crack-pot conspiracy theories (which I have to admit I find amusing) this one is rather interesting. So you went to Germany and all the streets where empty, there where no workers in the bars drinking; they where all at the factories working, late during the weekend.

So who do you think is behind all of this then? Is it the lizard-people, or maybe the Nazis has returned to created a master working-class and keep them locked up in the factories, or maybe it's just the aliens?

If you think about it, from the research you've done in Greece, they being out drinking all night, maybe they're the ones keeping the Germans locked up in the factories and stealing their money?

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Or some movement to improve Anders Breivik cell conditions. :badgrin:

I'm sorry to say I fail to see any connections there.