Author Topic: How programming works.....  (Read 7233 times)

caballero

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2018, 02:38:01 AM »
Curiously, the symbol of burying the dead with a coin is shared in Greek mythology. Charon was the ferryman of Hades who carried the deceased along the river Acheron. Custom later imported by Rome.
The logic of the error is hidden among the most unexpected lines of the program

caballero

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2018, 03:31:02 AM »
As I can see in this video. From what I understood from the video, everything is based on highlighting the atrocities of Christianity to validate atheism. I guess Christianity is not the only religion that commits / has committed atrocities. I have understood in the video that atheism has not committed crimes of religion. Which is not true. In Spain, for example, there were murders for the simple fact of attending mass or being a priest.

In no way do I say that theism or atheism is bad, they are simple ways of life. I do not know if God exists, so I can not try to convince anyone to change his mind. Most likely, I am wrong in what I do on a daily basis.

I just wanted to say that, in my opinion, atheism is also a religion because it is based on faith. But surely I'm wrong.

I am convinced that there are people who are absolutely convinced of their religion, theist or atheist, and they are absolutelly wonderful people. There are nuns, for example, who take care of the terminally ill, I suppose by vocation, which other people would not do even for money. I'm thinking about leprosy, for example. I repeat that, I understand, it is simply a way of life.

Just before writing this, I was thinking about the Greco-Roman world. Before Christianity, Democracy already existed, it was drawn, sculptures were made, wonderful buildings. When in the rest of Europe, for example, animals were still being hunted, for example. Of course they were civilizations, the most advanced known to date. Probably their life was also wonderful ... until someone came to annoy it, surely.

Probably many beautiful and advanced civilizations have been lost throughout history by wars. Irreplaceable wisdom. My brother, who is fond of natural medicine, often says the wisdom that may have been lost in natural medicine for having confused it with witchcraft or superstition. What else does religion give, if they had it, or their lack of it?

More than people who profess any kind of religion, my theory is that there are certain types of people who do not profess anything and take advantage of the dominant superiority, whatever it may be. Those are the really dangerous ones.

Hey, I do not know if I gave another impression, but I assure you that for me everything is correct: theist or atheist. :t
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Siekmanski

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2018, 05:58:11 PM »
 :t
To be a good person has nothing to do with religion.
That's the freedom of choice we have, no one can control our minds if we don't want to.
Bad and good is everywhere.
Creative coders use backward thinking techniques as a strategy.

hutch--

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2018, 10:18:37 AM »
Something I have found that is funny is that in the post Christian era (in western countries) there has been a shift from the old to all sorts of weird stuff (by western standards). Instead of renouncing religion and following the path of pseudo science, many have shifted to eastern religions, Islam, Vedic period literature and I have even heard of some folks going the route of post Christian "gnostic" teachings, almost all of which have the most tenuous attachment to any form of evidence.
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Siekmanski

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2018, 03:18:30 PM »
I find it funny why religion is based on the fact where on earth you are born and in what era.
Western world -> Christianity
Arabic world -> Islam
India -> Hinduism
etc.

I wonder why nobody believes in Thor anymore, or has science dealt with that?
Maybe there is hope for humankind and religions will fade away in the future.

But then again I think religion will never fade away because many can not grasp reality.
As an example the latest religion, the "Flat Earth Movement", those people can not grasp simple scientific evidence.
Creative coders use backward thinking techniques as a strategy.

mineiro

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2018, 10:32:11 PM »
Religion exists because science can not explain all the facts that happen. It was not for lack of attempts, on the contrary, until multiverse created, but in the end always arrive at the beginning, something happened before us. It's like gravity, we can feel it, we know it exists but we can not explain until today, just measure. And this inexplicable for religion is God.

The Catholic bible tells the story of the origin of life on the planet, science does not tell us where we came from, just the Big Bang. The Bible tells us about ethics and moral precepts, science does not impose limits to this.

A simple computer example, information theory, Claude Shannon. We get certain text file written in a certain language and we compress. The resulting file, in theory, can not be compressed again; on the contrary, it will only increase if we try to compress it again, just as the expansion of the universe. We know how to measure what has been said, the probability of the next dice is innocuous in a chaotic way in all possible probabilities. We perceive, measure, understand, but we can not explain the reason for this, I say, the reason there is no universal compression for entropic, random, compressed or encrypted data. Should I create a new religion to worship randomness? Does this created religion explain everything or just parts of the whole?
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

Siekmanski

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2018, 01:18:33 AM »
So if science can't explain facts, it is god's work, until proven by science?
This sounds weird don't you think.
Does it mean that god will be less and less significant everytime science comes with more proof how the universe works?

Does god provide us with knowledge?
Instead of speaking to a few unlettered desert people, why not showing him/her/it to a lot of people at once, and tell us who or what he/she/it is, now in the present time?

Do you really believe the origin of life story in the bible?
Science at least tries to find out where we come from and in the meantime gave us radio, television, mobilephones, computers etc.
God teaches us nothing, people do.

The bible learns us about ethics and morals?
Have you read the horrible things done to people that are written in the bible and are justified?
Intelligence has a bigger influence on morals and ethics than any holy book.

Religion is invented by humans and is used as a tool by powerful people and/or governments thru history.
The purpose is to get power and wealth by controlling others.
What to do to get control over people:
Create an imaginary god power that has to be believed in and rob the people from their freedom.
Now you can control the people, enslave them, create fear so you can let them do exactly what god wants or else hell is waiting for them.
Because religions are not strong enough as a tool anymore ( people become smarter by learning and wiser by scientific proofs ), we now have other systems too to control the people, with a political or ideological base.

Should I create a new religion to worship randomness?
I would rather use science to proof randomness with facts instead of believing how randomness works.

Are people really free to believe what they want?
Creative coders use backward thinking techniques as a strategy.

hutch--

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2018, 01:47:30 AM »
Trouble is that religion and the lack of religion both have lousy track records, Stalin's purges were no less horrific than the Spanish inquisition and the examples across history are just as ugly. People have been finding excuses to kill each other from the dawn of civilisation, mongol invasions running from east to west over a vast territory massacred their way through a massive number of people and Tamir the lame (Tamerlane) massacred millions and is seen in his historical area as a hero.

There is no doubt that religion has been used in various locations over time as a controlling method of the population (Ferdinand and Isabella) and many others of different flavours but so has the sword, famine, money and ideology, there is little that is new in the world.
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mineiro

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2018, 10:12:22 AM »
Excuse me, gentlemen, I have an opinion formed like you;


That is if science can prove controversially what has been taught, and it is not the case, just the opposite, is the answer. The more science walks, the closer it gets to what I can not explain but I can feel it, just like you do.

We were told by my old man, but he was not taught us. Teaching does not mean just talking, but rather acquiring.

Of course, do you have something that says otherwise? Tell me the origin of the story of life, I would like to hear your arguments. Aliens we've never seen? It's easier to believe someone who walked the planet than someone I've never heard of.

Not all Catholics know how to interpret the Bible. Who has ever looked with an eye on the wife of the next? I already, my sin, but between thinking and acting there is a curve.

Science was invented by humans. Those who try to acquire the monopoly of the lives of others are non-Catholics, they are politicians.
I understand the slander caused by the church in times of old, and I speak ill of it, I am not fervent. When politics mingle with religion something bad happens, there are current, non-Catholic examples about it. How many Catholics do you listen to on the radio, television, ... saying you killed another just for religion? The answer is zero. We're talking about meanness, maleficence, another story.

Currently some.

You have your opinion formed, and I have mine. We will only find out who is right after we die. Do not mind, perhaps you go to paradise and I do not, for I fear you, he is just. But while that does not happen, I'd rather believe in religion than in aliens.
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

Siekmanski

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2018, 11:39:08 AM »
Hi mineiro,

It's normal to have different opinions, nothing wrong with that, nobody knows for sure, maybe both are wrong.

I prefer logic above belief.
Science can absolutely demonstrate that evolution is a fact.

Do you really believe the universe, flora and fauna on earth are created in 6 days 6000 years ago?
Christians believe in a book compiled and edited in the 17th century, from 16th century translations of 8000 contradictory copies of 4th century scrolls,
that claim to be copies of lost letters written in the 1st century.
Logic tells me, not reliable at all.

Instead I have read books from Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss and Noam Chomsky etc.
I have learned a lot of this world and universe thanks to them.

Killings in the name of religion? People do the killings and often use religion as a tool.

Luckily for us, programming is only about logic.  :t
Creative coders use backward thinking techniques as a strategy.

hutch--

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2018, 07:03:51 PM »
Philology is in fact an interesting field and some truly great minds have done a lot of work there. I am incredibly rusty in this area but I do know my way around ancient documents and here both the historical Jewish writings and the Christian era documents are well understood and this goes down to the actual documents.

For the Jewish literature you not only have the Dead Sea scrolls that date from around the century or so before the Christian era up to about AD 70 when Jerusalem was trashed by the Romans. There is a later collection from a synagogue in Cairo (about 1000 years old) that yielded a massive collection of ancient Jewish scrolls.

The Christian literature comes from a different tradition, mixed between Alexandria and Rome there are a few variant versions of what is now known of the New Testament.

I only remember a few but they are important ones, Codex Vaticanus is 4th century CE and is in the Vatican museum. Codex Siniaticus is in the museum in England and it is slightly later, about 5th century. A few other names come to mind, the Chester Beatty collection goes back to the late 2nd century and there are thousands of others of ages from the second century up to the middle ages.

Old documents prove nothing but it well buries the middle to late 19th century assumptions about the combined old and new testament being repeatedly edited at a much later period. Also the era of Greek is very well understood so there is little need to re-translate the old Catholic bibles. Interestingly enough one of the great brains of this field was a Dutch scholar named Erasmus who did serious translations of older documents and while he did not have access at the oldest of documents, in the middle to late 1500s his work was very well received.

He was in fact a moderate Catholic scholar at an unhappy time around the start of the European reformation where wars were waged for religious reasons.
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mineiro

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2018, 09:55:26 AM »
hello sir Siekmanski, I'm sorry for the delay in answering, today was a busy day.

I also like logic, particularly George Boole or Boolean algebra. In the past it was one of the subjects taught by the liberal arts, trivium and quadrivium, in counterpoint with the mechanical arts. Trivium, grammar, logic (dialectic) and rhetoric, while Quadrivium taught arithmetic, geometry, music and astronomy.

There is good discussion of creationists and evolutionists.

Yes, I have already spoken in those names, Dawkins is atheist, Darwinist, I like to inform myself, I attended lectures and debates on youtube. I suggest William Lane Craig.
An example of logic, if I speak well of a God who does not exist how can this God be enslaving?

hugs

Interesting your post sir hutch.
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

Siekmanski

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2018, 10:14:20 AM »

Yes, I have already spoken in those names, Dawkins is atheist, Darwinist, I like to inform myself, I attended lectures and debates on youtube. I suggest William Lane Craig.
An example of logic, if I speak well of a God who does not exist how can this God be enslaving?

The "logic" behind this is that believers think it is OK and normal to have slaves as farm tools because its written in the bible.

Have you seen this video between Lawrence Krauss vs William Lane Graig?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBGWFB2W1O8

I like to know what you think of the views of these two people.
Creative coders use backward thinking techniques as a strategy.

mineiro

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2018, 10:37:38 AM »
Hello sir Siekmanski;

Well, slaves as told in the bible do not have the same meaning as we understand today. If we look at the past, the Ottoman, Persian, Roman, Greek, Inca, Aztec, Mayan, Brazilian Indian, African, ... empire. All kinds of races have already been enslaved, without exception; white, yellow or black, we have all been enslaved. What the Bible says is about servitude; something like, you saved my life, I'll be your servant until you die or when you abolish me.
Something like the words of Nostradamus; "the black serpent will kill more than any war," being a visionary he wished to say "the roads will kill more than any war." A symbolism just being used.

I have not seen the video yet, I'll see tomorrow.
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

hutch--

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Re: How programming works.....
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2018, 02:17:38 AM »
Back in the 1950s Bertrand Russell debated the same topic with a Jesuit theologian, Father Frederick Copleston and this debate is generally a reference work for undergraduate philosophy students. Russell attacked the old Catholic proofs for the existence of God, Copleston attacked Russell's construction of ethics without a religious base.

I think there was a general consensus that there was no winner and this is probably the normal result for a debate of this type. You cannot develop a superset from a subset so the notion of a formal proof for the existence of God cannot be got off the ground. Likewise the foundation of ethics is not based on fact or some notion of logic, ethics are effectively an arbitrary collection of rules made by men from a wide variety of sources, utilitarian, religious, survival and are imposed generally by force, law of the land etc ....

Interestingly enough the earliest notion of a monotheistic God was from the Pharoah Akenaton who booted out the old Amen Ra and worshipped the single sun god Aton, thus the inflection at the end of his name. His son, Tut Ank Amen (name = Tut, Ank said he was the king and Amen was his god) changed his name back to the Amen inflection after his father died. I might be wrong but I don't think there was another monotheistic god until the Hebrews.
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