Author Topic: Economic Tendencies  (Read 6466 times)

jj2007

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2018, 05:40:10 PM »

@aw: "to build the new man and woman" clearly means re-education in this context (and Cuba is a very successful example for the role of education in a poor country). But Che Guevara didn't invent that concept; "re-education" was a buzz-word after WWII, see e.g. Exorcising Hitler: The Occupation and Denazification of Germany

AW

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2018, 06:18:04 PM »

@aw: "to build the new man and woman" clearly means re-education in this context (and Cuba is a very successful example for the role of education in a poor country). But Che Guevara didn't invent that concept; "re-education" was a buzz-word after WWII, see e.g. Exorcising Hitler: The Occupation and Denazification of Germany
I know about reeducation camps. It is a common practice under communist regimes.
Sure they are also common under fascist regimes, which use similar strategies, as you probably heard about because it was born in your country.

I am not talking about formal education, but reeducation programs. I know Cuba is known for exporting low-cost doctors all over the 3rd World. But is still a crappy communist country with an average salary under $50.00. From time to time I receive requests from cubans asking me to simply a free software license (it costs much more than 1 month salary for them). The reason is not the embargo which is fictitious and used as an excuse - the reason is the regime.

jj2007

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2018, 09:47:50 PM »
I know about reeducation camps. It is a common practice under communist regimes.
Sure they are also common under fascist regimes, ...

In the particular case of the German population, it was the U.S. regime.

AW

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2018, 10:51:52 PM »
Former East German territory is still very nazi these days. At the time, communists knew no reeducation was needed. A good nazi always makes a good communist out of the box.  :t

hutch--

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2018, 11:02:15 PM »
I have always had this chuckle about neo nazis. The rise and fall of the third Reich was based on circumstances that occurred in history and would be near impossible to emulate. Neo nazis are a bunch of dumb phuk skinheads jerking off about their delusional power when under the third Reich they would have been terminated as degenerates.
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felipe

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2018, 11:29:09 PM »
I see you have your "own" dictionary to a lot of words. But i will give you a point on that, actually who wants to discuss this kind of things through posting in a forum.  :icon_exclaim:

What is natural anyway? Maybe you can think about that a little bit... :eusa_snooty:
Felipe.

hutch--

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2018, 12:02:03 AM »
Was this from my comment ?
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felipe

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2018, 12:13:24 AM »
 :biggrin: No, sorry i didn't wanted to quote to aw, but i guess it brought confusion. I didn't because just quoting around (at least always) sometimes produce just nonsense and no arguments.

@jj: Do you mean because of Treaty of Versailles? Or to the enrichment process of the U.S after WWI? Or similar or none of this one? Please explain a little bit more your last reply. Thanks.
Felipe.

jj2007

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2018, 12:32:10 AM »
@jj: Do you mean ...

I meant to tease José a little bit, that's all. But googling for re-education world war II can be an interesting exercise indeed ;-)

AW

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2018, 01:16:12 AM »
Natural, anti-natural and contranatura words usually cause reaction when used in connection with sex.  :icon_rolleyes:

But in connection with communism, after Che's declaration and my stressing of the words rebuilding and reeducation why are you still so confused? May be you want to read the whole article:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/guevara/1965/03/man-socialism.htm and say something more than AHAHA and use of emoticons - this is not Instagram!

@JJ just moves around like a headless chicken.

hutch--

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2018, 02:10:42 AM »
Change over time in terms of circumstances accounts for many political flavours of their time. Think of the Bolshevik revolution in Russia where the bulk of the population were in the state of serfdom and you will understand how and why the early Soviet developed. One event that was truly impressive in its time was the road from Burma to north western China after the Japanese cut off any supply routes from the coast. A massive number of people worked to build the "impossible road" in an impossibly short time.

Dire circumstances produce unusual systems, look at German after WW1 with reparation, hyperinflation, the great depression where money was pulled out of Germany and left the population in starvation. In such dire circumstances Hitler arose as the saviour of Germany and while we all know how that ended up, he did drag Germany out of economic depression by 1936.

Duplicating the past in any meaningful way is generally not possible as the circumstances that generated the past simply do not exist. The examples were for a reason, communism as a viable system never existed but a number of experiments were tried by different countries, almost all of which failed as the system was vulnerable to exploitation by a ruling class and failure at an economic level. Romania bumped off Nicolae Ceausescu and his wife for exploiting the population among many other indiscretions which was typical of the so called communist countries.

Many of the convenient handles for political systems are subject to abuse, once democracy meant government by and for the people, now its a dirty word as it is the vehicle for an elite ruling class smashing countries around the world.
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felipe

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2018, 02:29:27 AM »
I agree with you hutch  :icon14:. The point is aw, that we have nature: trees, the sun, etc, etc. But as humans, if you state that we are different than nature, you mainly have 2 roads: 1) Than we are some kind of spiritual entity or a similar religious approach or 2) Than we are some artificial entity, wich brings the issue that in some point we had a creator ("in our evoltion history").

So, antinatural, in this context, is like cheap propaganda (and actually with some religious flavor).
Felipe.

jj2007

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2018, 02:37:36 AM »
Duplicating the past in any meaningful way is generally not possible as the circumstances that generated the past simply do not exist.

Hey, you are challenging the "we must learn from history" mantra! There are instances where that works, but I agree that the mantra is seriously flawed especially in times where globalisation and technological change (smartphones, AI, ...) change the basics of society. And thus their basic mechanisms.

AW

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2018, 04:41:50 AM »
that we have nature: trees, the sun, etc, etc. But as humans, if you state that we are different than nature, you mainly have 2 roads: 1) Than we are some kind of spiritual entity or a similar religious approach or 2) Than we are some artificial entity, wich brings the issue that in some point we had a creator ("in our evoltion history").

So, antinatural, in this context, is like cheap propaganda (and actually with some religious flavor).
Nothing to do with that.

We can train a cat to become friend of a mouse but this is not their real nature.

Humans are competitive by nature but they can be trained/reeducated to follow Marx slogan "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.".

This is opposed to the humans nature or anti-natural. It will ever work unless they start building humans like Dolly sheeps or make a brain implant.

felipe

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #74 on: September 09, 2018, 07:27:03 AM »
We can train a cat to become friend of a mouse but this is not their real nature.

This is where i think you are wrong. Is like all being blasted by an asteroid, you may have your perfect life in a moment, but this disaster it will be a natural thing. Even if we say hello to aliens some day, that will be a natural thing...

The thing is that nature is not inherently good or bad...It's just nature! We can talk about that some humans actions are wrong and that's ok, we need laws, etc. But that doesn't mean that we are above nature or similar...

But in the religious way, this concept...you should already know...just google for galileo... :eusa_snooty:
Felipe.