Author Topic: Economic Tendencies  (Read 6637 times)

AW

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #75 on: September 09, 2018, 08:37:31 AM »
Quote
This is where i think you are wrong. Is like all being blasted by an asteroid, you may have your perfect life in a moment, but this disaster it will be a natural thing. Even if we say hello to aliens some day, that will be a natural thing...
I understand your point of view: "The unusual seems unnatural until it settles with the stomach"

If a scientist decides to produce humans with 2 heads, why not? It will become natural shortly after.

You believe that everything must be allowed, no boundaries, the life is only one. But fortunately, in my opinion, most people do not pursue that line of thought.

One consequence is that the "New Communist Man" has never been produced with success so far and is unlikely it will ever be. So humans will continue to follow their human natural instincts as always have done since the beginning of the times, discounting some abnormal cases. Cats will continue to hate mice as well, except in some laboratory experiments.

felipe

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #76 on: September 09, 2018, 10:04:31 AM »
Although i don't want to argue with you for too long, i can see that you have actually some mystic with the word nature. I was saying humans can be good or bad, i can continue saying humans must behave themselves (even using laws),etc, etc. But the mystic view of nature seems to like to put good or bad in nature. Of course there are a contradiction with the neutral concept of nature, because humans (part of the nature) can be good or bad...Indeed is an interesting issue... :idea:
Felipe.

mineiro

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #77 on: September 09, 2018, 10:08:38 AM »
jj, I'm now close, you do not waste time huh! Symbolically I am doing the Italian symbol with my hands :).

AW, my land that I conquered with my sweat, paying more than 30 years to get it, will it be for the government or for my children? If it's okay with my kids, if it's for the government that characterizes what?

Hutch, I understood the reason for major invasions coming to the construction of a great wall. I understand that you are telling me that Marxism ended in the era of Mao Tse Tung. But really? What characterizes a communist system? The leader in power forever means dictatorial, and this represents what? It represents communism in the context that we talk about. This is happening in Russia, 4 times in a row Mr. Vladimir Putin. In China, perpetual power. In Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea.
Mao took iron from the peasants' tools to turn into weapons, hoes, shovels. The consequence is that the peasants who were not able to plant effectively died of starvation. A good book is "The Black Book of Communism." A bloody book, only for those who have stomach.

For me you guys are being deceived, you have no more power of discernment, only of acceptance!. That's why I'm not political correct.

It is from these arguments that I disagree with you sirs, taking away other evidence. You are seeing only capitalist power.

Re-education? Gulags?

Well, I'm agains all of you guys :D.

Philip :) , search for the beginning of philosophy. Earth, fire, water and air. Then came Socrates and said that the answer may be within us.

The new age, a dictatorial capitalism (aka communism).
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

hutch--

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #78 on: September 09, 2018, 01:34:50 PM »
mineiro,

What we differ on is the idea that a single leader by whatever means is communist. Hitler was a single leader, Franco was a single leader as was Mussolini yet they were the anti-thesis of theoretical communism. Ante Pavelic was head of the Ustasha with dictatorial powers but he was rolled by a communist, Tito. Before we point all of the evils of the world at the communists, lets look at the alternative, what is currently being sold as capitalism.

The term derives from another theoretical idea, lasseiz faire, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers (along with many other trades) competing with each other to sell goods at the most competitive price but it never happened in practice. Feudalism, monarchies and the rise of industrialisation that could afford to buy governments all functioned as a distortion of the idea of free market competition.

With many other variations, failed capitalism versus failed communism. Since WW2 the "goody goody gum drop" team exterminated some massive number of people in the Korean war followed up by yet another massacre of people in Vietnam then there was Iraq 1, Somalia, Iraq 2, Libya and most recently Syria so it is fair to say that both sides of the capitalist / communist distinction have blood on their hands and dirty money in their pockets.

There is yet another unhappy comparison, the old Soviet had the gulags in Siberia where prisoners were worked to death, the US has it equivalent in jails that are the same thing, slave labour of people who are black, poor, hispanic or any other group that can be framed for some crappy charges and sent into slavery. Most western countries have a similar version to the US system.

Much of the third world know the effects of phony capitalism after being phuked over by the World bank and IMF putting them into debt bondage, austerity, cutbacks, reductions in pensions and the like so they could rip the guts out of their countries and asset strip their property.
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AW

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #79 on: September 09, 2018, 04:13:55 PM »
@filipe,
I can't see from where you concluded about my mystic view of nature. And where do I consider nature good or bad. And where I look at it in a religious way. I have also looked into my papers and can't find any Power of Attorney endorsing to third-parties the right to decide what I think about this matter.
Do you even read the responses or simply shoot the balls back blindfold?

jj2007

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #80 on: September 09, 2018, 06:24:01 PM »
... capitalism.

The term derives from another theoretical idea, lasseiz faire, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers (along with many other trades) competing with each other to sell goods at the most competitive price but it never happened in practice.

I agree with most of your post. We have Chinese shops all over the place, they sell hi-tech at unbelievable prices. Capitalism works, that's why most people don't notice how distorted it is, and how far from its original ideas. Especially the need to compensate external effects is bread & butter of capitalistic theory but gets ignored in practice. And then came the Internet, and economic theory and practice faced another challenge. M$, Fakebook, Goggle, Ahmyson are de facto monopolists that (so says the theory) must be regulated. They aren't, of course - our democratically elected governments do not have enough power to do that.

Quote
Much of the third world know the effects of phony capitalism after being phuked over by the World bank and IMF

The story is a bit more complex. WB & IMF are the regulated, state-controlled parts of The Financial Economy, and their record is mixed. Point is that you must do lots of things wrong to end up in a situation where you need their help. Africa is suffering from a rotten elite (and their friends in the U.S., Russia, China and the EU) that thrives on "development aid" and does not hesitate to launch a little civil war to rob their competitors. Since you cannot force anybody to invest money in Africa, you end up with investors who are courageous enough to accept the risk of losing all their money, but of course they want 50% interest. This is what makes Africa poor: They pay a high price for THE RISK. Switzerland gives you less than 1% interest, guess why...

caballero

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #81 on: September 09, 2018, 06:33:48 PM »
I wonder what "austerity" means. On one occasion a person that I know well told me that while he was studying at the university and did not have much money, had to remove many things from his usual purchase that he would have liked. On one occasion he gave money to a boy who asked for charity. Then, this boy ran to buy the ice cream that he himself had wanted for so long; it seems that the ice cream was not at the boy's taste and he threw it into the trash bin shortly after starting it. A good lesson.

I would like to be entitled to many things, unfortunately I do not have money for all of them. And not only to me, and not only in this era, but throughout the ages. Suddenly we all have the right to everything. What happens in a society is that, whoever is in charge, is usually prone to arrogate to himself rights for which there is no budget, decisions that drag the rest of society and that ultimately cause greater poverty.

When Syriza arrived at the government of Greece, he declared the Greek debt as infamous, unjust and unwanted. Then he asked for more money from Europe, which I suppose would also be infamous, unfair and unwanted. But both were worn. This money does not fall from the clouds, but from the pocket of the rest of European taxpayers who, I suppose, will want to see their money returned, many people do not have too much money.
The logic of the error is hidden among the most unexpected lines of the program

mineiro

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #82 on: September 09, 2018, 09:01:59 PM »
I would like to apologize for the 2 comments I made on my last post.

"For me you guys are being deceived, you have no more power of discernment, only of acceptance!. That's why I'm not political correct."
"Re-education? Gulags?"

Sincerely sorry.
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

caballero

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #83 on: September 09, 2018, 09:12:39 PM »
It is necessary to be brave to defend ideas contrary to the status quo, so I sincerely appreciate you, mineiro  :t
The logic of the error is hidden among the most unexpected lines of the program

AW

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2018, 09:37:19 PM »
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AW, my land that I conquered with my sweat, paying more than 30 years to get it, will it be for the government or for my children? If it's okay with my kids, if it's for the government that characterizes what?
I did not said that, completely different.
I know your English does not allow you to understand much of what is said and, even worse, you have no conscience of that.

 

hutch--

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2018, 11:48:25 PM »
 :biggrin:

> I wonder what "austerity" means.

That's really simple in most western societies, cutback heading to zero on government spending, increased taxes on those left working, increasing unemployment with no assistance in either providing jobs or feeding them while they are looking and it all goes one place, tax cuts for foreign corporations. Put aside the bullsh*t about how supporting big business creates jobs, usually over 90% of the tax cuts go out as extra profit.

Government funded by the people on behalf of the foreign corporations serve only one purpose and that is to keep the population under control while the foreign corporations get corporate welfare paid for by the people.
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felipe

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #86 on: September 10, 2018, 02:02:10 AM »
@filipe,
I can't see from where you concluded about my mystic view of nature. And where do I consider nature good or bad. And where I look at it in a religious way.

It's very simple:

- communism is so anti-natural   :dazzled:. They can wash your brains saying it is natural, it is not  :icon_eek:!

Then i asked what is natural then...

But there wasn't a concrete answer to that so i gave you my point of view about nature...Then you:

We can train a cat to become friend of a mouse but this is not their real nature.

...Stated here what is real nature for you...Which for me looks like some kind of perpetual concept of nature (pretty much the same as the perpetual concept of some religions...)
So i told you a little more about what i think is nature, that is, nature is not to satisfy yourself necessarily, not to cats or mouses. They essentially doesn't have some fixed nature because nature is bigger than both...

Then you said:

If a scientist decides to produce humans with 2 heads, why not? It will become natural shortly after.

You believe that everything must be allowed, no boundaries, the life is only one. But fortunately, in my opinion, most people do not pursue that line of thought.

One consequence is that the "New Communist Man" has never been produced with success so far and is unlikely it will ever be. So humans will continue to follow their human natural instincts as always have done since the beginning of the times, discounting some abnormal cases. Cats will continue to hate mice as well, except in some laboratory experiments.

Wich to me is a some kind of jump from the fixed nature concept to some kind of mystic concept, because you started to tell me what i consider wrong or not, because the why "new communist..." has never been, is essentially, because is not natural...

So thinking that nature is a fixed thing, that it can be good or bad, and finally that nature is not going likely to change (because hasn't changed) is pretty much the same concept of a bunch of mytics views (thus religious views) of what is nature and what has always been and what's always be...

But of course, as i said there's a contradiction with the neutral concept of nature (as i already mentioned)...You can read it in some reply above...
Felipe.

mineiro

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #87 on: September 10, 2018, 10:48:18 AM »
You mean land and other real estate? Yes, even more right than in the western countries.
They receive a leasehold for 70 years, renewed after that (this is what is expected to happen, probably no 70 year leasehold expired yet).
What happens in western countries? In western countries, they say that you "own" the land but you have to pay every year from 2 to 4 percent of its value in property taxes! So after 70 years you paid more than twice what you initially paid for it! So, you don't really own the land, you have to keep paying for it year after year or the government will confiscate it.  :(

I did not said that, completely different.
I know your English does not allow you to understand much of what is said and, even worse, you have no conscience of that.

I understood "own" word, "possession" with a subjective meaning of "owner". In most or probably all western countries government own lands, we have possession rights. This is not different in China. So, "what happens in western countries"? The same.
Goverment only confiscate when the land (terrain) is illegal or being used in a illegal way or acquired in an illegal way or being used to slavery or to pay some pendencies with workers as an example. I suppose you're talking about expropriation.

My question was:
"Do Chinese people have a right to private property? No"
The law does not give the peasants the right to buy (possession) the land they plant, only the option to renew the lease; the only guarantee is that they will not be expelled without due compensation. If we talk about real estate I agree with you.
I'd rather be this ambulant metamorphosis than to have that old opinion about everything

hutch--

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #88 on: September 10, 2018, 11:41:33 AM »
It took me a while to find it but its a documentary on China in WW2 and the earlier Japanese invasion. At 45 minutes into the movie is some footage on how the Chinese built the Burma road in less than a year where engineers in western allied countries estimated 7 years if China could provide the heavy machinery. Put aside arbitrary definitions of political systems and see the distinction between a vast number of people (communism) and conventional methods (capitalism) for building a critically necessary road to maintain the supply route into China.

The Battle of China (1944)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIkrgOmsbVY
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AW

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Re: Economic Tendencies
« Reply #89 on: September 10, 2018, 02:33:04 PM »
@felipe
Your explanation is so boring, may be you can try a simpler explanation as Einstein did here.

@mineiro
Since you are eluding the central, decisive point, for a moment I thought nobody pays PROPERTY TAX in Brazil. To my surprise there is property tax as well in Brazil and if you don't pay it the Government will sell the property as it does everywhere else. So, the property is yours - you "own" it - if you continue paying for it. So, actually you don't own it, it is rented to you by the government!  :badgrin: