Author Topic: Seeking friendly collaborator  (Read 29540 times)

mikorians

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Seeking friendly collaborator
« on: October 19, 2012, 03:29:02 AM »
Maybe I've been closed in my hospital room too much and just do not understand the way normal people think.

I've been trying to get someone to spend a little spare time (not every living moment) helping me to upgrade my
application in siome way so that I can finish off an item that has been on my bucket list for 30 years now.
I offer people a little friendly incentive money and everyone grows quiet.  I just want to be fair and pay people what their time is worth...
I'm not asking for a major commitment because I know how little $200/month means to people in professional fields-- it's like--- nothing.
I have no connections, and no friends, no facebook, no twitter - I never bought into any of those because I thought they were kinda silly.

I cannot grasp why in these troubling times nobody feels that the money I'm offering is not worth a couple of hours a week helping finish a project
that is 3D ---  fun, fulfilling, interesting, beneficial to both of us as well as the rest of the whole world --- this isn't a commercial venture - it's open source.
They'd be doing what they're already seemingly willing to do for free-- helping people on these boards...
I just have no connection and no hope.

Why?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 04:31:36 AM by mikorians »

caballero

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator - why do people go silent?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2012, 03:54:25 AM »
Your message sounds a bit negative, isn't it? Maybe you should explain a bit what your project is about and maybe people will start to feel interested. As far as I'm concerned, I have no time for another project, sorry. But I must say that anyone who has posted something on the Internet feels anything like as if he had thrown it into the void...
The logic of the error is hidden among the most unexpected lines of the program

mikorians

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator - why do people go silent?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2012, 04:11:17 AM »
You're absolutely right.  It does sound negative, doesn't it.  Desperation does this to people.
I'm sorry.  I don't mean to come off as all negative.

Positive swing now---
It really is a great old engine and it is actually finished and potentially quite educational.
It has test levels, and inventory and icon system, and it plays okay.  It has many features which I have found enjoyable.
If a programmer enjoys his own program, then it must be at least somewhat fun to play, yes?
It has a carnival with sky umbrellas, a merry-go-round, tube slides, some pretty good soothing music.
It is designed to be a therapeutic and relaxingly entertaining program.

All it needs is a little tender-loving-care to make it run a bit faster - perhaps not much at all.
It really needs someone familiar with Visual Basic 6 to just browse over it and become familiar with the reasons why it was made the way it was,
and then we could focus on ways to make it run faster and work better within those parameters.
The x-files themselves are probably are where some of the greatest improvements could be made since I've learned a lot from a friendly Russian fellow lately.
So you can see that I already have a few good ideas for optimization already.
How hard could it be, yes?  It would at least be interesting conversation.  Isn't that worth a little money?  I mean, I know you can't just buy friendship, but it helps, hmmm?

dedndave

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator - why do people go silent?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 04:12:16 AM »
i would probably help if i were a bit more qualified   :t
others have different reasons, of course
but we aren't all "3D graphics gurus", either   :P

mikorians

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator - why do people go silent?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 04:24:04 AM »
Who says you're not qualified dave?

I wasn't qualified when I started either.  Remember this took 30 years.
My price was time instead of money.
These games are expensive to make commercially...   As you know.
Do you know VB6 or VB7?  Even if you don't but can interface with it, then there's a possibility.
Do you have the time?  I would like to get 2 hours a week in on this so I'd know progress was being made.  I think that's fair enough.
You also have some familiarity with MASM32 or you wouldn't be here?
I want to post this thing, but I am embarrassed to do so in its present state.  So private communication.
I need a 1-on-1 thing going because you can't post over 512K here, so it would have to be email.

dedndave

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 04:41:00 AM »
i don't use VB or C at all, really
i can generally read those languages well enough to learn what i want

i can't see charging you money for learning how to do stuff - lol
i have a little intrest in 3D graphics - but it's not high on my priority list, at the moment

Farabi seems to write some pretty fast stuff
maybe you could get a little direction from him

mikorians

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 04:48:35 AM »
Folks pay tuition, and what I learn will be the right way to do all of this.
I'm an old fart, and youngsters pick up stuff so fast I can't believe it.

Now see-- You're right.  3D isn't high on your priority list, but maybe some of the things you'd be able to do with the extra money are.
You simply have to gauge which is more important to yourself.

Now this Farabi... isn't here.  You are.
What would be the proper protocol for me to contact him/her?

I need a sounding board and a friend.  Only the work is 2 hours a week.
Tell me about some of the most complex things you've written.  I'll bet you'd wow me.
My focus is very narrow, so I'm good at just this one thing.

dedndave

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 04:59:54 AM »
Onan Farabi is one of our forum members that enjoys 3D graphics and game development
you can send him a PM - or just wait a day or so and he'll probably post in this thread

as for me...
i am also an old fart - lol
i wrote a lot of assembler code back in the 16-bit days
and - i have written assembler for a number of different processors and microcontrollers

as for win32 code, i am still a bit of a newbie
i spent a couple years just playing with console-mode programs to learn the "behind the scenes" stuff
and in the last year or so, i have started to play with windows GUI apps
i am just learning to properly apply GDI code at the moment
once i have a handle on that, i want to spend some time learning the SSE instruction sets
i also want to spend more time with COM development and macros - both of which i am weak on

i think Farabi uses OpenGL, in preference to DirectX
when i get to the point where i want to do some 3D code, i will probably follow that same path

mikorians

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2012, 05:09:18 AM »
Nice to meet ya!
I have played both Blood and DukeNuke'm 3D and been jealous of the graphics they got away with back then.
My engine isn't as fast.
I have proffered DirectX over OpenGL because, believe it or not, I found it unpredictable or unsuitable for my purposes.  'nuf said.
I'm waffling between Directx6,8, and 9 because of various things I've heard and done.
I'm dreading a re-write - but that's what 6 or 9 means.
I wrote in 8, and the Russian guy has provided me with some eye-opening stuff with is DX_VB.DLL for DX9 that allows Visual Basic 6 to access DirectX9.
My performance increase in a test application went from 7FPS to 50FPS.
On the other hand, the wise old ones on this site have spoken, and they said I might want to go back to versions of DirectX that are less cluttered than 8 and 9.
I must benchtest these versions now as well, but the docs and API's for them would be very hard to find...

Tedd

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 02:42:48 AM »
Stop offering money as an incentive - it makes most people feel uncomfortable, as it would appear they're only replying to take your money. Members provide their assistance and expertise on this forum for free, out of interest and through choice. If you start waving money around, all you will attract is people who want your money for the minimum effort; while what you want is someone to work on a project with you because they also have an interest in that project - which is the same reason you are working on it.

I would recommend looking at SDL (www.libsdl.org) as an option, instead of worrying about DirectX v OpenGL, and version hell - you will still get access via these libraries anyway, but with a simpler interface and some nice additions.

Also, I know you won't like this idea, but you will benefit from re-writing in a complied language. It may seem like a lot of extra work when you already have working code - and it is - but consider how much extra time you're going to be spending trying to squeeze out more speed. I expect a large amount of it will end up being straightforward rewriting (a little boring, but not difficult) into the target language. It will also give you the opportunity to re-examine the structure and find more efficient methods you hadn't previously considered.
Potato2

MichaelW

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2012, 03:15:24 AM »
mikorians.

Have you considered switching from VB to FreeBASIC. By default the FreeBASIC compiler outputs Intel-syntax GAS assembly, and supports the same syntax in inline assembly. And it supports “naked” procedures with no prologue or epilog code, so you can create assembly-code procedures with a minimal call overhead directly in your source. And while the GAS macro system is very different from the MASM macro system, and much less powerful, the Intel syntax was developed from the published MASM 6.0 grammar, so the assembly syntax is close to that of MASM.


Well Microsoft, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into.

mikorians

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2012, 03:34:45 AM »
I've been running around in a spin trying to pick a direction to go in...  I've gotta be careful.

Tedd, thank you very much for the tips, and I will keep them all in mind from now on.
SDL sounds pretty major, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.  I don't know it I have the skill to implement that though since I'm completely unfamilliar with C.  I will examine it, however, to see if I can reach it at all with VB... [update]  No.  I don't want OpenGL.

MichaelW, FreeBASIC sounds more up my alley.  But I've also seen really great results from BlitzBasic, but it lacks API access and is too proprietary.
But how does FreeBASIC fare with DirectX access?  Is there a code library available?  I will investigate. [update] Q:I would LOVE to go back to QBasic.  Any DirectX examples?

So... Question: How does my GPU's vertex fill rate compare to real-world polygons/second?
I have now benchtested DirectX7 vs. DirectX8 and 9 as Hutch suggested.
There didn't seem to be much of a difference.  It's hard to calculate because it seems that actual triangle size matters a great deal...
My formula was to reduce the fill rate 67.5M verts/sec down to 450K faces/50th sec.
My current program pulls 140K faces/50th sec.

MichaelW

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2012, 03:56:09 AM »
Quote
But how does FreeBASIC fare with DirectX access?

The FreeBASIC GfxLib uses DirectX by default, but this is for QuickBASIC-style graphics. I’m not into 3D so I don’t pay much attention to what people are doing with it. I do know that there are several 3D projects going, but I don’t know if they are using DirectX or OpenGL, or some library like SDL.


Well Microsoft, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into.

ToutEnMasm

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2012, 06:20:22 AM »

Quote
Any DirectX examples ?
I have done some in masm.I can help you going this way for free.
Fa is a musical note to play with CL

mikorians

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Re: Seeking friendly collaborator
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2012, 07:42:05 AM »
 :dazzled:  Wow, that would be great if we could collaborate.
How are you at understanding the dll type link to Visual Basic 6?  Doesn't matter too much if you're thinking of a rewite.
I've learned that I've got to be flexible here.  Do you know FreeBasic?  I just got it and it looks interesting also - has tighter links to Asm.
We need to make this old engine scream!
Anybody know how I can tell if I've maxed out my GPU's performance?