Author Topic: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted  (Read 1399 times)

Siekmanski

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #75 on: March 25, 2020, 08:43:06 AM »
Think we need to take all the corona numbers a bit more in perspective....

More than 99% of Italy's coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions, according to a study by the country's national health authority.

Source: ISS Italy National Health Institute, March 17 sample
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
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caballero

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #76 on: March 25, 2020, 09:00:09 AM »
I just saw a video of a Spanish doctor who launches an idea that suits me best. In other words, I don't think that the death rate is so disparate between Spain and Italy and Germany. Okay, Germany can be very orderly, but once someone catches it, the death rate is what it is. What this doctor says is that the mortality rate may be around 1% (according to the figures of countries where many tests have been done), then what happens is that they are hiding the number of cases from us and that fits me more.

If we assume that Spain has 2,808 deaths, with 1% mortality, which was more or less what there was at the beginning of all this, that gives us a number of infected of 280,800 instead of the 39,885 officials.

And I say that this fits me more because we know that this virus is very contagious and there were many demonstrations (crowd people, don't know the word) in Spain, a breeding ground for rapid spread.

This is more in line with the figures provided by Germany.


Or even that all are lying, including Germany, which may be the higher mortality rate, the numbers of infected people much higher than the figures provided, and the deaths in Germany also higher. Who knows.

What doesn't make much sense to me is that the death rate is so disparate between different countries.
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hutch--

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #77 on: March 25, 2020, 10:43:37 AM »
> What doesn't make much sense to me is that the death rate is so disparate between different countries.

It probably has some to do with social custom, the assumption that extended families are the correct social model works against its members in that there is much more close social contact which in turn increases the transmission of the virus among members. It may not be so bad for younger healthier family members but the frail and elderly are at much greater risk.

From  when Ghengis Khan brought the black death to Europe, separation and isolation has been the main defender of those who survived and little has changed since then, a collection of monks cloistered in their own monastery were at very low risk where people who lived in the towns in close contact with many others died like flies. From memory the black death selectively took out certain blood types where some had much greater resistance. I think it was type O and type A+.

We have yet to see if some people have greater resistance than others.
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caballero

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #78 on: March 25, 2020, 05:38:44 PM »
People in the south are warmer than in the north, more physical contact. When you meet someone, everyone shakes hands with the boy and kisses the girl twice, which is almost something intimate in the north. This results in the hypothesis that there are many more real infected people than in the official figures.

On the other hand, in the south are the oldest people in the world, which is the age range with the highest mortality, which may raise the mortality ratio here compared to the north, but I don't think so much.

Fernando Simón himself, a government epidemiologist, already said that when more tests are done, the mortality rate will probably decrease. When was asked about the disparity in mortality between Germany and Spain, he said he did not know. I think he does. It is clear that there are many more cases of covid than appear in the official figures and they are aware of it. Probably not even the government knows exactly because there simply hasn't been enough testing.

It seems that the key is to do many tests from the beginning to locate infected people to quarantine and not spread the infection. That is what Germany and South Korea did. Therein lies the key to success. Once the spread is massive, mass testing no longer makes sense.
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jj2007

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #79 on: March 25, 2020, 08:55:23 PM »
More than 99% of Italy's coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions

Which is absolutely normal for any European country with high life expectancy.

caballero

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #80 on: March 25, 2020, 10:38:09 PM »
I update an important fact to understand the figures. It seems that for several days, as in Italy, due to the saturation of the hospitals, they do not admit those older than 80 to ICUs, at least in some hospitals. Without respirators they have no choice but to die. This certainly raises the mortality coefficient. That is, the more the number of infected increases to the point of collapse of hospitals, the mortality rate will skyrocket, not from the disease itself, but from lack of medical care.

I think it would be important to know this virus in order to optimize coexistence with it and understanding the data is important for it.
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daydreamer

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #81 on: March 25, 2020, 11:29:32 PM »

It seems that the key is to do many tests from the beginning to locate infected people to quarantine and not spread the infection. That is what Germany and South Korea did. Therein lies the key to success. Once the spread is massive, mass testing no longer makes sense.
if its so dangerous, we should maybe do same as after Atomic,Biological,Chemical warfare has happened:mass burn all clothes and shower off all contanimation and new clean clothes?
But it's probably illegal if not in wartime or a dictator order it

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Greenhorn

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #82 on: March 27, 2020, 05:24:23 AM »
:biggrin:

Greenhorn,

You sound nearly as cynical as I am.

What else remains after 4o years of neoliberal dumbing down of the poeple.


Greenhorn

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #83 on: March 27, 2020, 05:44:19 AM »
Russia has sent lung ventilators to Italy.
Thank you Russia!

mineiro, yes, thank you Brasil.
And yes, in the beginning the chinese responded with opression and propaganda but as it got serious they did actions that seem to help for a slow down of the pandemia.

Iran is hit by the sanctions of the NATO states.

Meanwhile Trump talks to the old poeple: "Go and die for the rich 1%."
Slowly I start to think it is satire ...

The finacial capitalism of the western states has gone so fragile that it wouldn't survive a total lock-down of it's economy for a day. No reserves, all is optimized for profit.

hutch--

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #84 on: March 27, 2020, 06:07:16 AM »
 :biggrin:

Yes you definitely ARE as cynical as I am.  :tongue:
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caballero

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #85 on: March 27, 2020, 06:35:39 AM »
> neoliberalism
Normally I keep quiet, but I will make a short summary. In Spain we have a social-communist government. They have placed their women, friends and anyone from the party as ministers, they have increased the number of ministries to bring them all in. The minister of health is a graduate in philosophy, which is not bad, because perhaps he has studied something. Their objective was the 8m propaganda, therefore they could not prohibit mass events of the same date because then they should have prohibited the 8m march. Hundreds of thousands of people hugging and kissing throughout Spain. The next day the schools close (from one day to the next). All the media ridiculed the severity of the virus and encouraged to go to the demonstration. Today, one of the big (private) mass media is asking the government for money so as not to fail. They drink from the tit of the state. Neoliberal? Understandably, there was no critical voice in any major media. The president announces on Friday the state of alarm for Saturday, giving 24 hours for everyone to escape to all corners of the country and even outside taking the infection with them.

The government accuses the opposition of wanting to destroy public health in favor of private health. Vice President Carmen Calvo tests positive for coronavirus and runs to the Ruber International (private) clinic in a kind of palace to be attended.

On the other hand, the economy. Thanks to the Keynesians we are now beyond 100% debt, which does not give us room for maneuver at all. Before the elections this government was spending a lot of money on propaganda, on raising the salaries of officials, on increasing the number of officials, pensions, etc. And in other things where now I do not enter. Surely now we does not have a penny left and so we are, scarce of respirators, masks, etc. People who work in hospitals or law enforcement agencies do not have. We are already on the record of employment regulation and salary reductions and we are just starting. Being in these, as I have heard in the Valencian Parliament, the politicians' wages have been raised. But it is that Europe has allowed the government of Spain to get into debt without remedy, the ECB was buying Spanish debt in the secondary market. To this day, I do not think that Spain has any other choice but to default on debt. Which will put the ECB in the pillory.

On the other hand, where is the EU. It is conspicuous by its absence. Hundreds of thousands of politicians for nothing.

Are there no scientists in Europe? They are all under political supply and that is why no one spoke or is that science disappeared

Given what was happening in China and Italy, the right-wing opposition requested the closure of borders. The government called them fascists.

We are just starting, this goes for several months, with the economy stopped. And we are still thinking in ideological terms.
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Greenhorn

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Re: Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #86 on: March 27, 2020, 06:59:56 AM »
caballero, full ack.

Greenhorn

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #87 on: March 27, 2020, 07:12:15 AM »
:biggrin:

Yes you definitely ARE as cynical as I am.  :tongue:

Volker Pispers said about our society:
"We're buying things that we don't need, from money that we don't have, to impress people that we don't like."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mRQ0AcoCkI

TimoVJL

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #88 on: March 27, 2020, 08:10:37 AM »
In Finland, young women handle this corona situation.
An old mens like Trump can't do that ? Money before lifes ?
As Trump said, 'We will make USA great again', it means that in corona  USA is a leader, most of corona infected will be in USA, they will take a first position after russian.
This time the they can beat them in records.
USA have a lousy healthcare.

May the source be with you

caballero

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Re: antivirus recommendation wanted
« Reply #89 on: March 27, 2020, 08:48:42 AM »
I think that there should be some plans to be able to work because there is no money to give a salary to everyone who stays at home for much more than one month, in some countries more than others. But the truth is that once the infection curve decreases, the quarantine restrictions cannot be eased because we could run the risk of re-entering an upward curve, so we have several months left. We start from a very delicate economic situation. This method would have to be very rigorous and very well controlled, so I think the army should intervene to administer this methodology. In other words, I think we cannot afford to stop the economy right now.

But what strikes me is not listening to different plans, I just listen to confinement, which can be very good if we were in a situation where we could afford it.

Why is Europe not mass producing masks, gloves, and other necessary items? Why are they still not in the market? Why is nobody organizing or directing all this?
 
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