Author Topic: Windows 8 dead on arrival.  (Read 85323 times)

Bill Cravener

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2012, 08:21:22 PM »
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"I think Windows 8 will make Vista look like a champ," Santa Monica tech pro Luis Levy told me.

Windows 8 in the Enterprise: Why IT pros say no

Gunther

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2012, 11:41:31 AM »
Windows 8 in the Enterprise: Why IT pros say no

Interesting article Bill. It seems to me a bit speculative, but what the heck, we'll see.

Gunther
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Antariy

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2012, 01:04:04 PM »
What about if entire Win8 epopee was developed mostly to force the people buy and upgrade up to Win7? :greensml:

Bill Cravener

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2012, 07:48:07 PM »
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Gartner has two things to say about Microsoft's upcoming operating system. Windows 8 on tablets: "I like this thing." Windows 8 on desktops: "In a word: Bad."
Gartner: Windows 8 for desktop users is, in a word, "bad"

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On the other side of the coin when you run Windows 8 as a dedicated desktop things fall apart. The MetroUI is not a good fit for larger screens where the tiles simply waste desktop space. Menus that are easy to bring up with the swipe of a finger require a hovering your mouse in an exact spot to bring up on a workstation.
Windows 8 Is Great For Touch, But Bad On The Desktop

Greenhorn

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2012, 04:07:42 AM »
I would say that Win8 for desktop users is skipware.  :biggrin:


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Bill Cravener

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2012, 08:58:18 PM »
My opinion is the consumer preview sucks even more than the developer preview. I’ll admit Windows 8's inner guts are perhaps the best MS effort to date but it just doesn’t matter how good it is unless MS gets their act together and releases a professional version suitable for desktops. Microsoft’s Sinofsky/Ballmer and all the Windows 8 defenders on the web are in serious denial if they believe this OS will be successful. MS has entered the tablet market way to late to even matter and competition is too great for MS to think they can ever be profitable in the tablet market. The reality is as my original title of this thread states, “Windows 8 dead on arrival”.


Gunther

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2012, 09:58:18 PM »
Bill,

The reality is as my original title of this thread states, “Windows 8 dead on arrival”.

that's the truth and nothing else.

Gunther
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fearless

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2012, 08:30:27 AM »
http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/

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The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People don’t realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior.

We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.
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mywan

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2012, 06:26:53 PM »
http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/

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The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People don’t realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior.

We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.
Although games play a huge role in holding Linux back it is certainly not the primary cause. If Linux wasn't held back for other reasons it would have a market penetration that would have made the games issue go away long ago. However, Microsoft has been incrementally imposing the same mistakes Linux makes with each new release, in a different way. With Win 8 it's reasonably likely crosses that threshold for many were the mistakes Linux makes no longer matter, because MS is worse (maybe). One thing is certain, Win 8 will increase the market penetration of Linux. Add to that entire nations going strictly Linux and windows has some rough days ahead, along with some hardware vendors that have locked themselves in a copyright hole.

The most destructive assumption GUI developers make is to divide people into 2 groups. The idiot group who needs a help file to click the IE icon to get on the internet, and the advanced group who needs no GUI. The reality is that the public is fractally distributed across this entire spectrum, and all want their differing preferences catered to. I've complete replaced the entirety of windows file associations with a single app, and written a shell script, called 'q', for Linux as a backend for doing the same thing there. This would seem to put me in a reasonably advanced group. So why does Linux suck so freaking much for me? The specific reasons would take an entire book, but here are the basics and why Linux desktops will still have trouble competing with windows 8.

Linux Start Menu:
Why does Linux force a start menu configuration stuck on what the developer of the particular desktop being used decided should be shoved down my throat? Yeah, I can google and figure out where this configuration is, and spend hours making a single modification. But we are talking modifications that should have been two freaking click away for any idiot. That's how idiots progress to advanced users, disallowed in Linux because your either one or the other. Some versions of Linux has a far superior implementation of a start menu on the desktop right click. Only what Exec commands can be placed there have been filtered in weird ways.

Linux Quick Launch:
Just try to add a simple Exec to and icon on the Quick Launch. Yeah, a widget is provided for that, in a limited sort of way. Yet these widgets are themselves resource pigs that eat up your resources whether you ever click the icon or not, and have specialized APIs specific to the particular desktop you have installed. What's wrong with a basic icon with a basic Exec command associated with it? And why must I spend hours hand crafting each and every one!!? TreePad makes a better desktop GUI system than any Linux desktop does! And why must a taskbar be required to wrap onto the quick launch?

Linux File Managers:
At first glance it appears the file manager is a saving grace, a way to get GUI functionality that has been stymied on the desktop, except for a mess of shortcuts (security breaking scripts) on the desktop. You can associate different command line with different Linux file types. But nooo!! As soon as these file managers see command line switches they strip them. Apparently, as is a common claim, GUIs are not supposed to understand command line switches. So the file manager strips these switches and leaves a slew of identical commands lines without switches to reward your effort! Anybody who repeats the myth that GUIs can't understand a command line cannot count themselves outside of the idiot group. There is NO need to understand these switches, merely send them to the app/script/interpreter they are associated with. The mailman doesn't have to be able to read my mail in order to deliver it! The CLI obviously has its share of advantages, but the mailman shouldn't throw my mail away just because they can't read it!

Linux apps (mouse functions):
Take something simple like a basic picture viewer. You can map keyboard shortcuts every which way from Sunday. Yet not only only does it lack basic mouse controls, what it does have is hard coded. So just flipping through a folder of pics to show someone you have to fish that keyboard out from behind the computer. After countless downloads from the app center, I ended up running a windows picture viewer under Wine just to have a basic usable viewer.

One command verses eight clicks.
http://www.flossmanuals.net/command-line/
The above link explains the superiority of one command line to eight mouse clicks. The prototype command was:
"convert -resize 300 profile.jpg profile_small.jpg"
Leaving aside the obvious question of why the GUI developer was thoughtless enough to require 8 clicks, in effect what is being claimed here is that 49 keyboard clicks is superior to 8 mouse clicks. This is not even counting the shift key. Now try and add this same command to a custom right click (or default) of the file manager, two (or one) click away. You end up with the entire command string consisting of "convert". Try again and you get two choices, "convert" and "convert". Makes you wonder who the idiot was that they were trying to make the desktop GUI idiot proof against?

Bottom line is that even windows 8 is probably not this absurd and antagonistic toward a reasonably functional GUI and mouse. The CLI must remain, and will always offer a range of options beyond what any single GUI can ever provide. However, to demand, on the grounds that the CLI has certain advantages, that GUIs not be allowed access, or admit to users that it actually does have access, to the CLI is absurd beyond belief. Oh, but the final admission, in the above article, that it does have access was just provided as another reason to click the keyboard 49 times instead of a mouse eight times, or even twice if they admitted the eight was an issue created by the developer, not the GUI.

It doesn't take an idiot to prefer click, click, done, to several hours of hand crafting config files, no matter how proficient you are at it.

Bill Cravener

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2012, 04:27:05 AM »
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And what should worry Redmond a great deal more than some journo like me remarking upon this is the way that at least one fund manager has sold his stock in the company as a result of his confusion over their plans.
Is Windows 8 Going To Kill Microsoft?

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When the Windows 8 OS does hit our desktops, the bet here is that it will be received with a whisper and not a bang. . .Ultimately it looks like Windows 8 is going to fail because it is trying to be everything to everyone.
Windows 8 has too many devices not enough depth

hutch--

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2012, 11:00:31 AM »
There is a reasonably simple approach to applications that have to be used by people of different skill levels, make the app a dual interface. In part its reasonably easy to do with both menus and toolbars as you can turn on and off any parts you like. Now this allows you to cater for two classes of end user, the SAVVY user and the NORMAL user.

Give the savvy user all of the bells and whistles needed to use to use the app to its full extent then have a simplified version for users who don't need or don't understand the more complex issues in using the app.

One of the serious mistakes that many vendors use is to reduce the use of an application down to the lowest common denominator, it pisses off the experienced user and often the ordinary user gets no benefit from the reductionism involved. Windows interface design over time has gone this way over time and at their expense as more and more people look for alternatives to a buggy and insecure PC at home, this among other things has led top the rise of gadgets like iPhones, Tablets and the like.
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mywan

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2012, 01:03:09 PM »
Even in the event you have an ordinary user who knows nothing whatsoever about the features there is still long process of cool discoveries that is taken away from them when you assume ignorance is permanent, and only providing the lowest common denominator tends to enforce that permanence. I perfectly well intend to stay ignorant about a lot of things, but if a situation should come up to change my mind I certainly don't want to be treated like I'm too dumb to learn, or forced into learning more than my needs require. Life is too short for that. Nor am I giving up the tool bar with a 1 click save button just because my keyboard has ctrl-s.

My brother programs PLCs all day, but if his home computer wants him to fish out his keyboard to zoom in on a picture he's not interested. I'm the same way. The mantra "learn the CLI, learn the CLI" is bs. I know the CLI and your still not going to make me fish out my keyboard just because some GUI developer thought they were too elite to include reasonable mouse functions.

Ryan

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #72 on: July 30, 2012, 01:48:11 AM »
Windows 8 upgrade offer down to $14.99.

https://windowsupgradeoffer.com/en-US/Home/ProgramInfo

Bill Cravener

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Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
« Reply #73 on: August 01, 2012, 06:02:12 AM »
And yet another reason Windows 8 will fail. :icon13:

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The new Windows 8 Wedge mouse and keyboard seem innovative and well engineered, but the real news is that they will be necessary add-ons for some Windows 8 tablets, especially when the tablets are used for traditional business applications.
Touch-centric Windows 8 without mouse and keyboard leaves a lot behind