Author Topic: heres the lathe you should get steve  (Read 543 times)

mikeburr

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heres the lathe you should get steve
« on: January 26, 2021, 04:24:20 PM »
steve this may go through your garage floor .. Model T Holbrook prob pre ww2
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/haddon/power-tools/lathe-240-volt-holbrook-alfred-herbert/1266775602 gumtree 2000 au dollars and worth every dollar when/if working
regards mike b [ ps weighs in at about a ton and a half

hutch--

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2021, 05:45:11 PM »
 :biggrin:

Might be a bit hard to do in an inner city terrace, no garage and no concrete floors. I do have a favourite from the many I used in my trade, a large Graziano with a left hand table travel handle, a truly magnificent device that was strong enough to turn steel at 55 rockwell C scale if you used the correct carbide tips.

As I only ever turn tiny things these days I own a tiny Chinese lathe that I tightened up and carefully set up and it has decent precision once you know how to use it. I made a collection of HSS tooling as it gives a better finish on non ferrous metals and via Banggood in China, have plenty of different carbide tips and holders if I have to turn steel.

Just wish I had enough room for a vertical mill.
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mikeburr

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2021, 10:50:19 AM »
get a small Warco style drill/mill ... theyre all much of the same ... you can do all the hooby stuff like drilling easily and mill up quite well on them .. i inherited one when a pal of mine died .. it uses R8 collets which are cheap and common [same as the Hartford {Bridgeport} mill i have and which i rarely use because the Warco is in the dinning room !!! and easy to get to ... like using any small machine that isnt designed to do heavy work just take small cuts ..modern tooling is pretty good with throw away carbide tips etc  and or quite cheap .. as for surfacing steel youll need to linish or grind the face to get a decent finish .. taking about 1-2 thou off
the most complex machines i have taken apart are a  Thiel / deckel milling machine [ have a modern Aciera F2 here which is a copy and brilliant but and not as good !!!]  and a 90 year old Thiel bandsaw whichi still own and  is incredible .. id rate DeanSmithGrace in that class
totaly agree vz high speed steel .. get much better results than many i know who are using carbide [some on really decent Cincinnatti CNC machines ] .. the skill is in getting the tool shape [ particularly the cutting angle ] correct for the thing you are working on and the speed [there are charts a plenty on the web but experience is the best guide]  .. i do use carbide to remove rust etc or on some of the harder steels but usually grind those ... if you have to bore a hole through tough steel use a masonry drill .... [ dont go fast .. the old ones were resin bonded and could unglue if hot but newer ones are laser welded tips and good .. you want the Bosch tile ones as you dont have to reprofile the faces .. which need to act as a scraper  ie a sharp flat face ... this profile will drill through weld !!!! ] .. Graziano are very nice but i think youll find this to be better despite its age !!   Dean Smith and Grace are the best lathes ive taken apart in terms of build quality ... as for accuracy the American Hardinge and Hendeys  and German Weiler are pretty superb  [all very different to use ] and the Monarch is supposed to be excellent [ i had a CVA which is an equivalent here in the UK but the bore was a bit small so i got rid of it .. ] use Smart and Brown A and M for small stuff which are sort of upgraded copies of German Leinen
i own a couple of Schaublins, small CVA, Benson etc  but  someone i know has a Swiss Simonet which is a very lovely small modelling lathe and i think if i were to only have 1 small lathe id go for that ...

hutch--

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2021, 01:18:53 PM »
Sounds like you have some nice toys Mike, from when I ran the business in a factory that had 12 inch thick concrete floors and a 400 amp 3 phase power supply you really could do anything but after not having any toys for some years, I converted a room in the house to my machine shop and started buying toys for it.

A couple of 1 hp bench grinders, one with a linisher attachment and one of the others to run buffing mops, an incredibly useful capacity as I ran my business polishing metal work for high end architecture fittings but on the side did lots of aluminium work for the bike guys.

The small Chinese lathe for tiny things, a cheapie pedestal drill and I can do most of what I need, mainly camera bits and accessories, mine are at least strong, well made and do what they need to do properly.
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mikeburr

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2021, 04:34:32 AM »
you prob know you can run 3 phase in your home now .. the VFD's are very cheap .. i run the Warco 3ph 2 horse off an hitachi vfd..[ quite expensive but good ]  .. been thinking about getting a 5hp one for my dads place where i dumped a Boxford mill .. which weve used quite a bit .and runs well off a 3 phase off a transverter
the transverter [1.5HP] works slightly differently from the vfd
VFD
converts to DC then chops the DC to AC 220v ideal for modern motors {star}
Transverter
uses large 440/600V capacitors to get one phase ... the mains for the second phase ... and the winding of the machine motor for the third phase .. ie lead and lag .. extention of start capacitor idea for induction motors
. and also put a C10 Holbrook in there  .. the Holbrook wont run off  a transverter for various reasons eg 440 and 3 windings ..plus control gear ...hence wondering whether to get 5hp vfd but these are pretty expensive [£1500]  especially when i could fit a modern 3 phase 4hp motor and drive for about 3-400 .. but it kind of ruins the idea of vintage lathe as you then tend to just use the VFD [they run surprisingly well at low speed !!] .. especially as you can generate intermediate speeds you cant normally get ...[C10 has 1000rpm and 3000rpm setting where 1000-2k would be ideal .. for finishing with carbide anyways ]
years ago i bought my dad a Myford with my first "computing job" salary ... theyre sort of okish but its amazing what you can make on them if youre carefull .. i put a Dickson toolpost on his machine and it made a huge difference to the quality of cut .. model makers love them but theyre predecessor the Drummond/myford was prob at least its equal and the small Leinen/Boley and friends.. are a league better

mikeburr

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2021, 05:02:28 AM »
being dim its only just occured to me
polishing stuff up seems to be incredibly specialised .. im a bit surprised you got enough work ...although nearly all my mates out there have motorbikes [very decent ones it seems ] so maybe theres a good market for their stuff ..
i live near London but i bet i couldnt survive doing that here

mikeburr

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2021, 05:05:14 AM »
ps   how did you get on with your amp build ??? you got some tooroids for the PS as i recall quite high ampage so assumed you were going to make a control system with drives etc  prob using rotary converters ???

hutch--

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2021, 09:38:30 AM »
Mike,

I ran a business finishing high end metalwork for 10 years until a few injuries made me too slow to keep it up and with a decent concrete floor, you could bolt down big polishing machines. 5 HP were common and I had a couple of very good ones but I also had a 10 HP monster that was a fearsome thing to use. Used 16 inch machine mops on it and only even did specialised production work with it but if you tangled anything, it could throw it the full length of a 300 foot long factory.

I keep a couple of 1HP machines so I can make small things that need decent finishing and can get very good results but its nothing like using the big machines.

Years ago when I rewired the house past the 1910 original wiring, I had the option of 415 volt 3 phase but I could not see a use for it, I just have to suffer a 240 volt 20 amp power point so I could run my Lincoln wire feed welder.

What I have seen on the market for tiny vertical mills are only toys and to get a small one that actually works correctly, they are just too heavy for the floor in my work room.
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mikeburr

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2021, 07:58:08 PM »
steve
is there no way of redoing the floor .. ie putting steel joists in ..
[loved the stuff about the polishing machines !!!  brilliant   send some photos if youve got any] ..
did wonder about installing 3 phase here and although the phases run one to each house in 3 [ie all three are available ] they wanted about 20 grand just to make the connections to the garage nearest the mains !!!  have also started wondering whether i could install 3 phase solar panelling on the shed roof [ its about 5 sq meteres but im pretty sure it wouldnt deliver enough ]
starting to think of moving out into the country where i can get a load of land and decent barn for my money .. could prob try all those things then [planning is full of ars...s trying to justify their existence over here making things awkward and wasting everyones time in challenging any decisions which they effectively frequently loose (costing tax payers a hidden fortune )]   
the govt over here is paying a lot of lip service to green energy but not really doing much about it .. the grants are pretty meagre in truth
politics is full of wanna be sound bites   daresay its universal
regards mike

hutch--

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2021, 11:24:22 PM »
Mike,

If you have a sniff of how much these old inner city terraces are worth, you don't wreck them. I like where I live, great neighbors, close to everything but the price is not much room. I only make small things these days so the lack of a decent vertical mill is no big deal but if I found a small one that did the job on small things, I could be tempted.

I can't help you with my factory days, did not even have a camera back then, just 12 to 16 hour days 8 days a week for 10 years but I did do a short video for a mate of mine when he was overseas of the current toys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uam05i9ZG5g
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K_F

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2021, 07:49:10 AM »
Got work to buy me one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCxOmLLXFb4
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hutch--

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2021, 10:16:25 AM »
Looks OK Van, should be great for tiny stuff. I don't know what you turn with it but I would be inclined to get some more tooling. You should be able to but that size of high speed steel and grind up your own but it may be worth getting some carbide tip holders of you can find them that size.
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hutch--

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2021, 11:23:58 AM »
Mike,

I will have to see if I can do a photo for you with a treasure that I scored at a local flea market a few yours ago, a boxed set of Moore and Wright bearing scrapers that were in new condition. Moore and Wright were extensively used with companies I worked for in my youth for high end precision measurements.

My own measuring equipment which toolmakers normally owned was a Swiss made Etalon 1 inch micrometer which I still own in perfect condition and just recently a mate of mine donated a very large pair of Etalon vernier calipers to suppliment the two Japanese 8 inch pairs I own.
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K_F

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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2021, 05:56:04 AM »
Looks OK Van, should be great for tiny stuff. I don't know what you turn with it but I would be inclined to get some more tooling. You should be able to but that size of high speed steel and grind up your own but it may be worth getting some carbide tip holders of you can find them that size.
I have the carbide tooling and holders, plus more.
This is for churning out lab equipment replacements, economically.
Just to replace a valve kit would cost us 800 euros plus, i can make it (and more) for about 50 Euros.
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Re: heres the lathe you should get steve
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2021, 08:20:47 AM »
That makes sense, the cost of specialised spares would knock most people over. If its not a silly question, what are the valves made from ?
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