Author Topic: A question for our friends from DE, what is all the hassle about the Nord stream  (Read 540 times)

hutch--

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For someone who lives on the other side of the world, the interactions between Europe, Russia and the US are truly confusing. If I understand the bare basics, Germany is an industrial power house and Russia is a resource rich country that will happily export its natural gas to whoever wants to buy it. They are already supplying gas to China.

Now the simple logic to a capitalist is the rules of supply and demand, Germany needs the gas to fuel its industry and Russia can supply that gas at a far better price than the competition, and further, they have funded a gas pipeline from Russia to Germany to keep the costs down for their gas.

Now its common knowledge that the US want to restrict Russia economically and ship their own far more expensive gas to Europe but of course, this means that European consumers will have to pay a higher price for their energy, especially in the winter.

Can anyone make economic sense of this mess ?
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jj2007

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You have already given the correct analysis: Russia wants to sell gas, and it's a bit cheaper than the U.S. gas. So the U.S. want to distort the competition. Another element is that until now, much of the Russian gas passed through a pipeline that crossed Ukraine. The latter don't want to lose the profit from the pipeline, and therefore asked the American friends to intervene.

There is also rumour that Ukraine stole gas destined for the rest of Europe. Google pipeline "ukraine" "gas" "Hunter Biden" to find more  :biggrin:

Greenhorn

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> Can anyone make economic sense of this mess ?

No, because it's pure (geo-strategic) politics.  :winking:

> Now its common knowledge that the US want to restrict Russia economically and ship their own far more expensive gas to Europe but of course, this means that European consumers will have to pay a higher price for their energy, especially in the winter.

That's (not) the one and only reason for all that hassle.
Germany gets it's gas since decades from Russia, even during CW I the Russians were always a reliable trading partner, especially for energy.

Even the "green" party "Die Grünen" who claims to be an environment protecting movement is now attacking North Stream 2.
Ministerette Baerbock is Young Global Leader and controlled by the US, as most of the nowdays politicians, not only in DE.
The US does not only want to isolate Russia from Europe, it also wants to isolate Europe from Russia. This would weaken the EU and make it more dependend from US.
It's not only about selling their fracking gas, this is just a side-effect (Win-Win-Win situation). Before CW II the North Stream 2 project was welcome by the EU politicians, especially by the Germans. (Otherwise it would never has been realized)
Kole Feut un Nordenwind gift en krusen Büdel un en lütten Pint.

Greenhorn

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The Crisis in Ukraine Is Not About Ukraine. It's About Germany

Quote
The Ukrainian crisis has nothing to do with Ukraine. It’s about Germany and, in particular, a pipeline that connects Germany to Russia called Nord Stream 2. Washington sees the pipeline as a threat to its primacy in Europe and has tried to sabotage the project at every turn. Even so, Nord Stream has pushed ahead and is now fully-operational and ready-to-go. Once German regulators provide the final certification, the gas deliveries will begin. German homeowners and businesses will have a reliable source of clean and inexpensive energy while Russia will see a significant boost to their gas revenues. It’s a win-win situation for both parties.
Kole Feut un Nordenwind gift en krusen Büdel un en lütten Pint.

caballero

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The only one who wins in this is the USA. It prevents profits for European countries and Russia, it prevents the economic growth of Europe and Russia, it keeps them weak and at its dictation. Imagine an EU+Russia union, how a competitor for the USA.

I imagine that the future of Ukraine will be decided at a table by the USA and Russia in an agreement that pleases both: Ukraine will stay out of NATO and Russia will stay out of the EU.
The logic of the error is hidden among the most unexpected lines of the program

Siekmanski

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It is about the intentional intensification of the energy crisis, to be used as another fire accelerator after the health crisis, to finally subject us all to the digital-financial complex.
Creative coders use backward thinking techniques as a strategy.

jj2007

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Greenhorn & Caballero, it's strange and unusual but I fully agree with you :badgrin:

hutch--

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The real victims are the folks in the Ukraine, after the coup against Yanukovych which overthrew an elected government, a period of anarchy followed by a civil war in the east while the economy is tanking and many people are cold, hungry and at risk of getting killed. It may suit some US interests to keep looking for ways to p*ss off the Russians but ordinary people in Ukraine are paying the price.

The Chocolate baron now has the option to seek amnesty in Russia via Putin while the new guy in Ukraine may have realised that no-one is going to come barging in to save him if NATO does something stupid. The general nod is that the Russians are not interested in invading Ukraine, they just don't want NATO on their doorstep.

Does anyone remember the Cuban missile crisis ?
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daydreamer

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Does anyone remember the Cuban missile crisis ?
I am too young,but I remember ussr had very old leaders that ruled until died of old age,Biden reminds me of that

Sweden had to reinforce Gotland here and it reminded me of scary scenario from very good book "operation Garbo" where Russians invade Sweden
Hind massacre swedish forces
Recent tv showed Hinds have upgraded armour in front of air intakes,which was earlier weakness to exploit

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if you wanna see an asm missile ,there is already a builtin:
AAM also means "Air to Air Missile" :D

hutch--

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In the early 1960s, the US started stacking ICBMs in some of the border countries around Russia so Russia started stacking ICBMs in Cuba. After a standoff that looked like the start of WW3, the US removed the close missiles from near Russia and Russia removed the missiles from Cuba.

Sad to say there are no good guys in international politics, they are all bad guys. Historically the old Soviet have been very clumsy and heavy handed in the Baltic countries and don't have all that many friends there. Equally the US has made itself many enemies in countries that they have smashed to feed their military / industrial complex.

I would like to see some sense between all parties, China is trashing the US economy, the US are trying to trash the Russian economy and a collection of countries are hostile to China and are trying to damage their economy. All three have loonies that want to rule the world and this leads to much of the trouble between them. Europe while the EU barely hangs together would like to exert more power but don't have the military grunt to do it.

This circus is nothing new, it has been like this forever, just with different players.
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daydreamer

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In the early 1960s, the US started stacking ICBMs in some of the border countries around Russia so Russia started stacking ICBMs in Cuba. After a standoff that looked like the start of WW3, the US removed the close missiles from near Russia and Russia removed the missiles from Cuba.
This circus is nothing new, it has been like this forever, just with different players.
well we all prefer some sane leader have the power to fire missiles than insane leader makes you worry
SIMD fan and macro fan
I am an Invoker
"An Invoker is a mage who specializes in the manipulation of raw and elemental energies."
if you wanna see an asm missile ,there is already a builtin:
AAM also means "Air to Air Missile" :D

caballero

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It is about the intentional intensification of the energy crisis, to be used as another fire accelerator after the health crisis, to finally subject us all to the digital-financial complex.
Maybe it's just that

Formerly I thought that the barbarities they did was due to ignorance. I have been convinced for a long time that they do it on purpose, to reign over misery.
The logic of the error is hidden among the most unexpected lines of the program

Siekmanski

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The Ukrainians and the Russians are not waiting for a war.
Only the USA and the elite-controlled MSM would have us believe this.
Like any other war started by the USA was based on lies.
This time the enemy is to strong for them, nothing will happen.
It's all a distraction for something else....
Creative coders use backward thinking techniques as a strategy.