The MASM Forum
General => The Soap Box => Topic started by: hutch-- on November 17, 2022, 12:49:19 AM
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:biggrin:
After the kneejerk media response to missiles landing in Poland, it seems that the missiles were launched by Ukraine, not Russia.
Now this raises an unusual situation, while NATO has been backing Ukraine, if a NATO member country is attacked by a non Nato country, they are supposed to act collectively to defend the member country. That means that with Poland being attacked, NATO are supposed to act to protect Poland.
I would not hold your breath waining for this to happen but could you imagine, Ukraine being attacked by NATO from the west while Russia continues its attack from the east ? Perhaps they could meet in the middle. :joking: :rofl:
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If an old russian made S-300 system fails to defend a russian cruise missile, all bad might happen.
EDIT:
From what direction a those russian cruise missiles came, from Belarus air space ?
Just follow those trajectories.
I am very stupid, but i just think, that what Belarus hide ?
Just let wiser persons to explain that for me.
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:biggrin:
The rumour mills around various parts of the world suggest that Zelensky was trying to get NATO to fight his war for him by shooting a missile into Poland. Then blame the missile strike on the Russians and start WW3.
As Zelensky sucks Europe and the US dry in terms of taxpayers money and military equipment, is it any wonder that both the US and Europe are getting cold feet when it comes to pumping more money and equipment into Ukraine when all it does is give the Russians more junk to destroy.
The only winners I can see are the American military/industrial complex who are getting massive orders for military hardware and even if the Russians splatter it, they still get paid. Europe is going bust due to sanctions agains Russia AND draining much of their own military equipment into Ukraine, I wonder when this nonsense will stop ?
Can anyone imagine what a serious war would be like between NATO and Russia ? Decimate and depopulate the Baltic countries, flatten the bulk of Europe apart from isolated enclaves, major cities and ports in the US and that is apart from any damage done across Russia.
Someone in the west needs to come to their senses and pull the plug before a serious war starts. On the bright side (if you are a bug) is the bugs will inherit the world.
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Isn't full scale war already showed in 1983 "war games" movie?
And nowadays military cyber training equipment might let you train that kind of scenario?
Seen on TV the participants they trained in cyberspace anti terrorist squad training
Are you sure it's the bugs?
Imagine automated factories on both sides continue to deliver new battle drones + fully automated battle drones keep on fighting the war after humans is extinct,including leaders that have the authority to press battle drones remote off switch?
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I don't see anything new that would make me change my original idea that the EU should have put all the effort into stopping the war as soon as it started. Instead, all parties seem very interested in continuing with it. The bottom line is that the friends of foreign goods, who dominate the West, also want to dominate the East, and do not seem willing to give it up so easily.
Lately, though, I've heard that Biden is starting to push Zelensky to discuss a ceasefire with Russia.
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:biggrin:
I wonder when this nonsense will stop ?
Perhaps when kremlins just walk out from Ukraine ?
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:biggrin:
It would not be wise to hold your breath waiting, the Russians will never accept nazi genocide of their own people.
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:biggrin:
It would not be wise to hold your breath waiting, the Russians will never accept nazi genocide of their own people.
And why they are at there, is russia overpopulated or descendants of former occupiers ?
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I don't see anything new that would make me change my original idea that the EU should have put all the effort into stopping the war as soon as it started. Instead, all parties seem very interested in continuing with it. The bottom line is that the friends of foreign goods, who dominate the West, also want to dominate the East, and do not seem willing to give it up so easily.
In ww2 documentary, one historian pointed out industrial production capacity was cause of which side won the war,German production was inferior to allies
First German vs Soviet,almost endless T34 production out of range, because factories moved to siberia
Japan empire inferior vs USA carrier and fighter plane production, also german production inferior to USA tanks,bombers, fighter planes
And through beginning to end of war,Japanese and German production constantly shrinked because of allies had their factories in closer and closer range to easily bomb them
This Ukrainian war is different with impossible to stop by bomb factories that make war materials that is sent to Ukrainian war, unless it scales up to NATO vs Russian war
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:biggrin:
> And why they are at there, is russia overpopulated or descendants of former occupiers ?
Pssst, this is a secret, it used to be Russia until Joe Stalin gave it away. They are there because they were born there and spoke Russian. It was Poroshenko and later Zelensky that tried to strip them of their language and homes and land and jobs.
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Funny.
Many of in this site knowns real world and understand all of that russian BS.
As Steve just live in his fantasy world and he might don't have any relatives, who have fight for freedom ?
So my view is always totally different.
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:biggrin:
I could point you at some very ugly sites on Telegram that shows the joys of 8 years of attacks by Poroshenko and later Zelensky on the Russian speaking Russians that live in the Donbass but of course evidence does not matter when you can live with neo-nazi ethnic cleansing attempts by the powers that be in Ukraine.
I am well aware of how and why Baltic states do not like Russia but I am not sure that supporting attempts at genocide to get the land in the Donbass, its resources and its industry serve their purpose, especially as it has backfired badly on countries that have been bled dry supporting Zelensky. Years of ignoring Russia's requests in relation to the attacks on folks in the Donbass fell on deaf ears and now that the heavy hand of Russia has fallen on Ukraine, all we hear is bleating by dying nazis.
Do you remember the Minsk agreement that was only ever used to buy time to build up the Ukrainian attack force to use against Russia ?
Be prepared for Russia to annex everything east of the river while Poland, Romania and anyone else carves up the corpse of what remains of Ukraine. Hunter Biden may no longer be able to make a buck$ out of Ukraine.
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Funny.
Many of in this site knowns real world and undestant all of that russian BS.
As Steve just live in his fantasy world and he might don't have any relatives, who have fight for freedom ?
So my view is always totally diffrent.
I am from Ukraine. Can give you any proofs!
And I know real world!
We have electricity for 2 hours a day!!! TWO HOURS! in winter, when the heating and everything else works from electricity. And the Nazi Zelensky forbids me to leave the country. Is this normal? And he is supported by your leaders, they give weapons to this bastard, because of whom I am sitting in a cold hut!
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what happened to regular electric stations?
as well as nuclear power ones
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Hi,morgot
We're glad to see you're okay. Hope to take care of yourself in next times.
there are much short videos on internet. some ukrainians grab water with the plastic bottle from river or lake.
Zelensky’s wife claims Ukrainians ready to suffer. I can't see her in a bit pain shape. you are really suffering.
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what happened to regular electric stations?
as well as nuclear power ones
The Russians bombed some of them, turned off the rest, it is unknown.Hi,morgot
We're glad to see you're okay. Hope to take care of yourself in next times.
there are much short videos on internet. some ukrainians grab water with the plastic bottle from river or lake.
Zelensky’s wife claims Ukrainians ready to suffer. I can't see her in a bit pain shape. you are really suffering.
Hello
Zelensky's wife is sitting in a warm house with light!! Of course, I can also talk if I was sitting in the warmth. And we suffer, yes. And we can't leave. I don't want to go to war. I don't want to collect water from a puddle. I want to live normally!
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My mother sometimes told me a few things about the civil war that she lived through, my father never spoke to me about that subject. On one occasion it seems that one side decided to bomb the village church because the other side had the idea of hiding the powder magazine there. Her father took them all from there in a journey that lasted months. Nothing good.
Perhaps this war would never have happened if the Minsk agreements had been respected, if those who really govern the USA had not been infatuated with seizing Russia, which is the true objective. If they had tried to stop the war once it had started. If the EU were governed by competent people and not by servants of Soros. Many conditions. What seems clear is that Russia cannot lose this war, because otherwise it would mean that the filth of the West would enter inside and they would stop having their own sovereignty, and they know that. With this in mind, the longer the war lasts, the worse for all parties. Ukraine could become an unstable space, as the Middle East was for a long time.
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@caballero
Actually a Minsk agreements had a very little role for the war.
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It would seem that the best chance of ending this war will happen shortly as the ground freezes and the Russians launch their expected counter offensive. For all of the propaganda, Russian economic retaliation has brought Europe to its knees, the continued support for Zelensky has drained both Europe and the US of massive amounts of money and military equipment and both are running out of money and military hardware.
There is a phenomenon at play here, the combined NATO countries are guilty of believing their own bullsh*t. Russia will go broke in a short time, the economic sanction will bring them to their knees, NATO will overpower them and intimidate Russia, it all sounds like something from Alice In Wonderland.
The Minsk agreement was never going to be honoured, it was used to buy time so that the NATO countries could pump Ukraine full of military hardware to invade Russia. It has to be an act of stupidity from European politicians to think that the Russians were just going to sit back as the neo nazis ethnically cleansed the Donbass of Russian speaking Ukrainians, after 8 years of constant attacks on civilians, they ran out of patience and responded.
The real action is the Goebbels Elite (whoops, I mean the GLOBAL elite) want access and control of Russia's energy and mineral resources like they almost succeeded in getting under Yeltsin and they are more than willing to sacrifice as many Ukrainians as necessary to get that control.
Europe is expendable, people can live and die in the freezing cold with no power or food, as long as they can get what they want.
Look at the contrast, Russian supermarkets have full shelves, they can turn on the lights at home any time they like, can buy fuel for their cars, have viable heating in the winter and it all can be blamed on Vladimir Putin who has acted to protect his own people. One can only wonder why European leaders see their own population as expendable.
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TimoVJL You can say a lot for politics. Tell me one thing - why can 't I leave the country ? I don't want to fight, I'm in poor health. I don't want to get cold. I want to leave
Why does Europe, which pays great attention to discrimination against gays and so on, not pay attention to the fact that men in Ukraine have been turned into slaves???
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My guessing is maybe you leave Ukraine now is against Ukraine law. (I don't know any Ukraine law)
Lesson learn: run to us, eu or uk before the war.
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Hi,morgot
We're glad to see you're okay. Hope to take care of yourself in next times.
I agree
I hope you one day can flee from this war :hug: :hug: :hug:
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If I will be alive, then of course I will leave here. Like millions of my countrymen. don't believe the propaganda - no one wants to live here! Except for the bandits and the cops. Seriously, all 100% of my friends dream of going to Europe or somewhere else.
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Oskar Lafontaine: "Europe is paying the price for the cowardice of its own leaders"
In this article:
- Why Lafontaine is calling for the US military to withdraw from Germany
- How Europe could emancipate itself from the US
- What act amounts to a declaration of war on our country?
https://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/701200/Oskar-Lafontaine-Europa-zahlt-den-Preis-fuer-die-Feigheit-der-eigenen-Staatenlenker
PS. I have not read the article because it is not free, but I have heard a summary, interesting.
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From same person
https://nationworldnews.com/oscar-lafontaine-germany-is-acting-as-an-american-vassal-in-the-ukraine-war/
https://m.vk.com/wall506253138_9127
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/22/lafo-m22.html
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I confess I am horrified at what European politicians doing. What looks like deliberately destroying the economic and industrial capacity of Europe when it has had excellent technology, industrial manufacturing capacity and plenty of people with industrial experience.
With a touch of tongue in cheek humour, one could produce a conspiracy theory that European politicians are a bunch of closet Kommie Pinkoes taking their orders directly from the Kremlin to reduce Europe to a pre-industrial backwater. The fallout has already started, Italy has gone for Meloni, Hungary and Poland are no longer kissing EU arse, the UK bailed out of the EU and no-one trussed poor Liz.
The US attack on Europe has been coming for a long time and these political morons are helping them strip Europe of its industry and human resources.
It is really unfortunate as Europe has had some great development of the years and used to have the industrial capacity to build their own defence industry, high end car manufacturing and many other high end items.
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> I confess I am horrified at what European politicians doing.
The Roundtable #36: About The Western Leadership Class, with Alexander Mercouris. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsHNAbT4pik)
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War is not just
fighting
destruction
countless deaths
unimaginable pain and suffering
...
War also is
change
get rid of old things
welcome new stuff
I don't like fighting anyone. But I love all soldiers and fighters
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I find that totally weird.
You could say the same thing about famine or pandemics or other pestilent cutters-down of the hue-mon race. What's to love about that?
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no. you are wrong. that's just about war.
about famine or pandemics or other things, I have my own different thoughts
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You can tell when European leaders are sprouking bullsh*t, when they directly put their own populations at both economic and military risk, you know they are kissing the arse of the US military / industrial complex. The thing that is theoretically up for grabs is the massive resources that the Russians have that they nearly had control of under Yeltsin.
Along came Vladimir and phuked them all off by taking back control of all of their resources and the hatred has been festering every since. Every excuse to attack Russia economically while accusing them of every imaginable war crime and it is all for nought, they just don't care any longer.
The west represents about 10% of the world's economic and military power and by constantly flaunting whatever leverage they have, the influence just keeps dropping as Russia can trade with Asia, the middle east, Africa and anywhere else. The main weapon of the combined west, sanctions, have dropped dead as Russia has just bypassed them but the sanctions have come at a price, if the Russians want to turn off the tap, they can knacker Europe and even the US by refusing to sell them things that they depend on.
Europe is getting the world level blowback with its energy miseries where no-one will help them, nothing like having the legacy of colonialism and exploitation that Europe has had for hundreds of years. The humourous part is that the easiest way to get on with the Russians is treat them like human beings. They want to trade with Europe in both directions, both buying and selling and being part of Europe.
It needs to be remembered that the old Soviet is long gone and modern Russia is very different from the old walking dead leadership they had under Leonard Breznev and similar.
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@Hutch
Totally agree with that. I would add that the problem of the war in Ukraine is just the icing on the cake. Politicians and European society are taking charge at forced marches of destroying the productive fabric, regardless of the conflict in Ukraine. They are putting all kinds of obstacles to production, prohibiting certain fertilizers due to contaminants, when we later import products without any type of control in their production, cheaper. Production costs rise and the result is less productivity and more expensive, that is, greater scarcity, which implies an increase in inflation. Inflation occurs not only due to increased demand, but also due to decreased supply. In Europe both things have come together, with an excessive printing of money, especially since 2008. However, only the demand side is being attacked by raising interest rates, nothing is being done to try to lighten production costs. I know farmers who have not been able to subsist for a long time without state subsidies, firstly because these subsidies have not been used to make their farm competitive and secondly because their production costs have increased significantly. With the rhetoric of climate change, Europe has loaded its automobile sector, everything has been oriented towards renewable energies, relying on natural gas, which is not available in Europe. Demand increases with an unleashed increase in immigration, which is tied electorally by subsidies.
Europe is governed by theorists of how things are done, all of them coming from wealthy families or becoming nouveau riche, at least in Spain, they have never had to struggle in the free market, working to earn a living, fighting to raise a business. That's why it costs them so little to close deals. In the Netherlands, more than 3,000 productive farms are going to close to comply with climate protocols. Many industries are leaving Europe in the face of the dramatic increase in energy costs.
In Europe it is dying from the stupidity of conceited rich class in command.
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Now, when we have electricity for 3-6 hours a day, it is very funny to look at the owners of electric cars. They are forced to charge cars from gasoline and diesel generators. And in general, all shops and institutions run on gasoline and diesel generators! That's the whole point of "green energy". This is a fiction, a myth. There is no solar and wind energy. Nothing can replace oil. Alas.
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Hi Morgot,
I just hope you can keep yourself out of this stupid war. I pick up from various military web sites that the Russians are waiting for the ground to freeze and for more of their backup troops to arrive and once its all in place, the bloodbath will start. I am naive enough to hope that enough people in high places get off their arse and do something about it so that thousands of conscripts don't get fed into the meat grinder.
I don't know where you are in Ukraine or what your language background is but if you can keep out of harm's way, it will sooner or later come to an end. Just make sure your survive !
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caballero,
Your analysis is sound, a political class that does not know what an empty stomach and poverty is about. Political power that is concentrated in groups of people who are effectively rich who have not got a clue about the living standards of ordinary people in their societies, make bad choices for the wrong reasons and leave many people in dire straights.
The French had the right idea, get rid of the bastards. I am neither a royalist nor a fascist, but a lasseiz faire capitalist (butchers, bakers and candle stick makers) and I have nothing against folks who have made a lot of money by working hard and producing good ideas, what I am not in favour of is money shufflers and exploitation and sad to say, they tend to dominate these days.
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hello, hutch
I hope... Let's see what will happen. So far, everything is very bad, electricity for few hours a day at a negative temperature, this is bad. It's better to die.
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Hi Morgot,
We have an expression here in OZ, "Don't let the bastards grind you down". We all go through a chyte time and I know that you guys are doing it tough at the moment but nothing lasts forever. Be there when its all over. :thumbsup:
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Hi morgot
I agree with hutch :thumbsup:
I hope one day you can come to peaceful place like here