The MASM Forum

General => The Colosseum => Topic started by: hutch-- on February 02, 2013, 11:59:35 PM

Title: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on February 02, 2013, 11:59:35 PM
Uzi submachine-gun found in Sydney

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/uzi-submachinegun-found-in-sydney-20130202-2drec.html

Now OZ has had restrictive gun laws for years now yet an exotic machine pistol turns up associated with drug dealers. A simple case where the sensible have been stripped of their rights and the criminals have exotic weapons.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: KeepingRealBusy on February 03, 2013, 07:14:36 AM
I have refrained so far from commenting on the gun issue, but the following slogans tell it all:

"When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns."

"When only the military have military style weapons, then the military can pick up all of the remaining weapons and you will be unable to stop them."

Dave
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: K_F on February 03, 2013, 07:52:32 AM
Probably not the case at all.

If you go into a place with a gun..

Scenario 1: Public is disarmed - You're not likely to be attacked so therefore not likely to shoot, you take what you want and leave = few, if any people dead

Scenario 2: Most of the public are known to have guns - the slightest move and you'll start shooting = lots more people dead.

Scenario 3: You're going to a place with intent to kill somebody. Armed public or not, you're going to do it anyway as you have the advantage of timing and place - 1 and 2 also applies here

Leaving out 3,  More guns equals more violence/deaths no matter how you look at it. :)

With regard to the military.. they are people too, and not all militant as you might think.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on February 03, 2013, 08:23:16 AM
Scenario 4

You go to a place with intent to kill.

Person with a RTC license and who is carrying his firearm, bides his time and ascertains if it would be safe to shoot without  hitting somebody else.

Person judges that it is safe, makes a decision, and ends the person's life.

Lives are saved and taxpayers save because no trial, etc.

If person had any money on them, it is used for the funeral expenses.





Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: MichaelW on February 03, 2013, 12:39:39 PM
Probably not the case at all.

If you go into a place with a gun..

Scenario 1: Public is disarmed - You're not likely to be attacked so therefore not likely to shoot, you take what you want and leave = few, if any people dead

Scenario 2: Most of the public are known to have guns - the slightest move and you'll start shooting = lots more people dead.

Scenario 3: You're going to a place with intent to kill somebody. Armed public or not, you're going to do it anyway as you have the advantage of timing and place - 1 and 2 also applies here

Leaving out 3,  More guns equals more violence/deaths no matter how you look at it. :)

With regard to the military.. they are people too, and not all militant as you might think.

So your solution is to work with the criminals, letting them do whatever they want unimpeded? What if what they want is unacceptable? For example, what about a scenario where some criminal decided to kill one of your sons?
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 03, 2013, 07:27:38 PM
Kinda makes you think.....

(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc273/JAKEYDON76/552652_10152465487030494_869848650_n_zps102295ee.jpg)

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: jj2007 on February 03, 2013, 08:03:58 PM
Kinda makes you think....

Yes, indeed.

Of the Kennedys, of Martin Luther King, John Lennon, Lincoln and others, many of whom protected by extremely well trained armed guards.

So you are in favour of putting well trained armed guards in each and every primary school in the U.S., in each and every shopping mall, in each and every bus station, in each and every hospital, ..?

Brilliant idea :t
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 03, 2013, 08:17:37 PM


So you are in favour of putting well trained armed guards in each and every primary school in the U.S., in each and every shopping mall, in each and every bus station, in each and every hospital, ..?

Brilliant idea :t

People are missing the point I think , It is NOT about guns in that respect it is about a stable society that dose not Bully kids and make them bring guns into  schools... Like Colombian ... those 2 were Bullied other wise they would have never shot every body like they did ! So the Fault of the Gun? Or the morons that Bullied and the other idiots that did nothing?
Fine take a way all guns on the planet .... If some one still wants to kill out of revenge , they would simply build pipe bombs which are easy to make and materials available in all home depots and hunting stores ... than we see carnage !!!
I think all people that go on mass shootings were harmed by society at some point! we need stable society !
! even these so call gangsters felt the need to belong to be safe in a gang
Think about it!
No Guns = Communism
Oh and no high yearly murders in Communist countries LOL

what disturbed me the most after watching a broadcast about school shootings here was the same response from the adults "when we were young people just beat each other with fist now they use weapons"

Oh ? So violence is OK as long as no guns ?

So big guy pound smaller guy in front of GF and he gets shot after in retribution .... I blame him

 
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 03, 2013, 08:29:14 PM
Also All theses tough on Gun laws are politician doing something after an incident to look like they are doing some thing ... People are like sheep , just followers , oh Gun laws ....

They will never stop homicides like the war on drugs failed! and the US is admitting that ...

YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH SOCIAL PROBLEMS!!!
You need to fix what makes a person pick up a gun and Kill

________________________________________________________________________________________

Our Attorney General Michael Bryant  Got tough on Gun crime in the 1990's I remember that !!!!

And what did he do one night ? Got drunk and killed a cyclist in rage for touching his convertible.....
But he was the Attorney Genera...so.....
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 03, 2013, 08:32:19 PM

Yes, indeed.

Of the Kennedys, of Martin Luther King, John Lennon, Lincoln and others, many of whom protected by extremely well trained armed guards.


Can you please name the others who did not die due to protection by armed guards....

In fact why not do away with armed guards than ? 
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 03, 2013, 08:34:51 PM
Uzi submachine-gun found in Sydney

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/uzi-submachinegun-found-in-sydney-20130202-2drec.html

Now OZ has had restrictive gun laws for years now yet an exotic machine pistol turns up associated with drug dealers. A simple case where the sensible have been stripped of their rights and the criminals have exotic weapons.

I clicked on the link on that page "The dangers of dancing at home"  http://www.dailylife.com.au/health-and-fitness/dl-fitness/the-dangers-of-dancing-at-home-20130117-2cuwx.html?rand=1358976904588#utm_source=FD&utm_medium=xpromo&utm_homedancing

So much more interesting than looking at an uzi  :lol:
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 03, 2013, 09:21:07 PM

With regard to the military.. they are people too, and not all militant as you might think.

Well ...It feels like we live in a police state already ! we have just as many homicides by trigger happy cops shooting people than by so called gun man ....

So many last year .... guy looked inside the garbage can out side hospital in Quebec , and retarded cops fired stray bullets and killed him http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/06/08/montreal-police-shooting.html

An old woman was shot by police after coming towards them with a gardening tool ( not like the report said at first a knife , she was hard of hearing)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/10/07/toronto-woman-shot.html

and so many more.....no cops are ever imprisoned for theses shootings ... they are always justified some how! So our life's are not as valuable as police life's  ?

And why are cops so brave to pull a gun on an old woman instead of restrain her ? 
Well.... Who will do anything about it ?

I believe in a place where most people are gun owner cops don't shot so freely ....
I mean if some one shot your mother like a dog in a street like that and you owned a gun ...

Cops always whining about their safety and guns on the streets , but I have never heard of a cop getting shot here in the line of duty ... the only cops that died in the line of duty in Toronto where idiots who jumped in front of moving vehicles , I guess the vehicle wins every time


I am more afraid of facing a trigger happy idiot cop ( who goes to the range and shots every day) than a "criminal" who has almost no practice with that gun



Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on February 03, 2013, 11:02:22 PM
criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed
dictators prefer their citizens to be unarmed

so, yah, let's disarm the public and see what's left
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on February 04, 2013, 09:29:14 AM
Australia's 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings.
Chapman S, Alpers P, Agho K, Jones M.
Source

School of Public Health, University of Sydney, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. sc@med.usyd.edu.au
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.
OBJECTIVE:

To determine whether Australia's 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.
DESIGN:

Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre-post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings.
SETTING:

Australia, 1979-2003.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100,000 population.
RESULTS:

In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100,000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws.
CONCLUSIONS:

Australia's 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.

I wonder what their definition of mass shootings is ?

As far as taking legal guns away that someone bought, well burying them in the woods and an active population of green and black mambas in the area....

Reloading averages 1/3 the cost of store ammo.

Outta here,
                    Andy



Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on February 04, 2013, 09:49:35 AM
these kind of studies are almost always biased to highlight a specific point of view
they fail to show you the statistics on citizens that stop crimes
it may well be that more deaths overall occured, due to criminals having guns and no law-abiding citizens to stop them
this would be a very difficult statistic to present

undoubtedly, this was prepared by someone, or some group of individuals, that favor strict gun controls

suicides - i am not sure we want to present that statistic
if someone wants to off themselves, they will find a way
and - it has little bearing on violent crime, except for murder-suicide cases

the numbers for homicides are the important stats

Quote
Australia's 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal
mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides

notice the careful wording
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: jj2007 on February 04, 2013, 10:29:51 AM
what disturbed me the most after watching a broadcast about school shootings here was the same response from the adults "when we were young people just beat each other with fist now they use weapons"

Oh ? So violence is OK as long as no guns ?

Violence is never OK, of course. But "when we were young people just beat each other with fist now they use weapons" is just proof that violence happens, and it's strong in the genes of a certain fraction of the population. The only difference between now and then is that those who got a classmate's fist in the face are still alive.

Same applies for suicides, by the way. Rates of attempted suicides are similar in gun-loving and gun-free countries. Rates of "successful" suicide attempts are much higher in the U.S.

OECD (the roof organisation of wealthy industrialised countries) collects statistics on such stuff. Within the OECD, the U.S. are extreme outliers for
- murder (usually expressed as number per 100,000 population per year)
- prison population (same)
- and, not so extreme but pretty significant, life expectancy.

But why look at statistics if you can dream of playing sheriff in the glorious Wild West? Of armed resurrection against the U.S. army? Honestly, those who play the "it's risky if the military are armed and we are not" card, do they ever reflect a second on what bulls**t they are writing? :dazzled:

The old lady that got shot by police? Doesn't happen in countries where cops live without fear that every single idiot regardless of age can hide a Kalashnikov under the burka. If you want to blame culture, go to your culturally closest neighbours, Canada and UK, and check their records. Don't be shy, UK is an extremely outlier in that nobody is allowed to carry guns, not even cops. And no, their murder statistics are not a typo.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on February 04, 2013, 10:50:06 AM
I know a teacher, he told me of a high student who hung himself.

He could easily have used a gun. So even if someone could not get a gun,...

<Violence is never OK, of course. But "when we were young people just beat each other with fist now they <use weapons" is just proof that violence happens, and it's strong in the genes of a certain fraction of the <population. The only difference between now and then is that those who got a classmate's fist in the face <are still alive.

That's an extremely simplistic arguement.

A big problem is a lack of anger management, most often brought about by lack of parenting and morals.

A  dentist ran over her cheating husband several times with her daughter in the car in a hotel parking lot.

It's legal in Texas for a parent or a grandparent to discipline a child using spanking.
It was including in a handgun law.

When I was in junior high, we got pops from a thick plywood paddle with a black target painted on the end.

Most students learned fairly quick that there are consequences for misbehavior.

The students who started fights behind the gym, many probably met an early passing away.

Andy


Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on February 04, 2013, 01:55:26 PM
The obvious has been missed when citing the report, the Uzzi is an ILLEGAL firearm that has arrived in Australia AFTER the draconian gun laws were introduced that were supposed to remove rapid fire weapons from society.  After such far reaching legal right removal it is reasonable to point out the level of FAILURE of the gun control laws. Criminals, drug dealers, bikie gangs, kids buying illegal hand guns for their own protection and an ever more sophisticated collection of weapons by terrorist groups say the gun laws have failed in their stated intent to make society a safer place by removing guns from it.

The price Australians have paid with draconian gun laws is the country is easier to control at the point of a gun but a more dangerous place because of it with an ever more sophisticated range of illegal weapons in the hands of the bad guys.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 04, 2013, 02:04:18 PM
Violence is never OK, of course. But "when we were young people just beat each other with fist now they use weapons" is just proof that violence happens, and it's strong in the genes of a certain fraction of the population. The only difference between now and then is that those who got a classmate's fist in the face are still alive.

Well.... The whole point I that the problem is society not gun control , that will NEVER stop murders ....
Gun control laws are just smoke and mirror to show the public that you are doing something ( even thought it is useless )
If I remember high school correctly there where ; knifes ,baseball bats , machetes , q ball in bandana or sock
Lots of ways not to remain alive !!!
One kid had his face smashed in with cinder block ...
Another kid in shop class had his face sanded off with power sander ....


The old lady that got shot by police? Doesn't happen in countries where cops live without fear that every single idiot regardless of age can hide a Kalashnikov under the burka. If you want to blame culture, go to your culturally closest neighbours, Canada and UK, and check their records. Don't be shy, UK is an extremely outlier in that nobody is allowed to carry guns, not even cops. And no, their murder statistics are not a typo.

I live in Canada and that happened here , tough gun control country, you can not compare us to a country that people put road side bombs ....
As for prison inmates in USA .... Most are in for drugs! A little joint and in prison you go!
Some of the old COPS show still plays on TV .... Not kidding you !
 
Politics .... Some old black and white movies showed how the US government was encouraging farmers to grow marihuana plants , cause hemp produces so much stuff cheaply, until the paper giants realized that will put their logging industry out of business so they created a panic about  marihuana users ( can still view those videos on line so funny!!!)
Not to mention that in the 1900's Coceine was  sold medically ( I have some funny pics )

Instead of fixing drug problem , just put people in jail ... Did not work!!!!
Same as with gun laws ...  A band Aid for stupid people to belive the government is doing something , at the same time propelling us towards a police state !


I believe it is not about people who love guns , or those who want gun control , it is about fixing society to be good! And it starts with each of us the way we act towards others !
That is my whole point gun control is useless and will never stop deaths , think about it ; after that theatre shooting every body was crying tougher gun laws ! But !if that man would have build a pipe bomb ( available parts anywhere ) and added sharp metal chips ( from any machine shop scrap bin ) or nails , ball bearings . He could have thrown that in that packed theatre and walked away , while killing most the people in there .
With No gun ! How will tougher gun laws prevent that ?
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on February 04, 2013, 02:28:07 PM
I wonder if body armor is legal in Australia ?

Crossbows ?

Long bows ?

If you had 10 acres or more and some Komodo dragons for cleanup, you might be good to go.

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on February 04, 2013, 07:07:55 PM
 :biggrin:

A pea shooter is illegal in Australia.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on February 04, 2013, 07:20:15 PM
There is a reason why the historical Colt 44 was called "The Great Equaliser".

(http://listverse.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/colt_model_1873_single_action_army_cavalry_revolver_44.jpg)

Without them in the Wild West you were the target of mobs, thugs, Indians, robbers etc etc etc .... A Colt 44 leveled the playing field. A small guy, an old lady, a widow and even kids could defend themselves against what are unbeatable odds with gangs of people. No doubt the wild west was a dangerous place but it was a lot more dangerous if you could not defend yourself.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 04, 2013, 07:46:50 PM
:biggrin:

A pea shooter is illegal in Australia.

Here in Canada we have a chain of stores called "Canadian Tire"
Street slang "crap tire" lol
In the big cities ( even some rural areas now)
They lock up the pellets and Co2 cartegis for pea shooter ( pellet gun, BB guns)
Out of fear that some "crazy criminal" will walk in the store and arm the BB gun and poke some one's eye out!

But huge sharp Axes , Lumber jack saws,sledge hammers , machetes , huge screw drivers , baseball bats are OK
Thank God for that , I am so Afriad of pellets ! But crazy man picking up a huge sharpened Axe and start swinging , or a machete , well .... That is not scary , can't poke some ones eye with that ! :dazzled:
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: mywan on February 04, 2013, 11:12:59 PM
Scenario 1: Public is disarmed - You're not likely to be attacked so therefore not likely to shoot, you take what you want and leave = few, if any people dead
Simply not true. I had some limited experiences in certain neighborhoods when I was young. Places where the probability of being attacked was near certain for the wrong individuals. A lack of guns made nobody in the least bit safer. I think I would rather be shot than beat to death with an axe handle, and I've had experience with being threatened with both.

If you count the total death rate from firearms the total death rate as a result of guns is certainly significantly higher when guns are widely available. How many more deaths than would have otherwise occurred overall is hard to ascertain. The manner in which statistics are collected groups all self defense, murder, accidental, cop shootings, suicide, etc., as a blanket count for "gun violence" numbers. In some ways the approach to gathering statistics is outright hostile towards making any real sense of the causal issues behind it. Just like "police risk", to justify certain laws, includes the auto accidents they get into during normal driving. For that reason there's nothing anybody can say, on either side of the debate, with really definitive numbers to back anything up. What can be said is that most are suicides. But how many suicides do you think you can prevent by taking guns away?

Bottom line is that no guns != no murder/suicide, etc.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on February 05, 2013, 12:19:18 AM
A pea shooter in OZ is an even more dangerous weapon, its a tube that you fit with a split pea, stick it in you mouth and blow hard and the pea shoots out the front of the tube. Now think of the potential for rapid fire if you had a mouth full of split peas, you could fire up to 60 split peas a minute as long as you worked out how to get your breath from time to time. This could truly be a weapon of mass destruction, you could fire so many split peas that you would cause a famine in areas that rely on them for sustenance.

Now you know why they are such a dangerous weapon and must be banned to protect folks who may be in the line of fire or worse, depend on split peas for sustenance.  :P
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on February 05, 2013, 01:14:54 AM
Speaking of dangerous weapons, I think cell phone come close.

As in distracted drivers for one.

I am not picking on cell phones, just their irresponsible use.

In many states it's illegal to use them in school zones, and that's pretty much the extent of their regulation.

A few examples,

Friend admitted he t-boned another car while he was using a cell phone while driving

Saw a van driver using his cell, go into another lane while picking up people from a hotel

Have seen police officers using cells while driving and on duty

Andy

I would be interested on cell phone regulation in other countries.

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: MichaelW on February 05, 2013, 09:06:55 AM
Even worse would be a peashooter magnum, large bore, long barrel, with rifling, firing whole peas and able to put an eye out at 20 paces.

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 05, 2013, 10:32:09 AM
Gangster :
(http://boyslifeorg.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/200x148_peashooter.jpg)

Weapon :

(http://www.jackspeashooters.com/resources/_wsb_255x342_Jacks+Pea+Shooter+Product+-Resized.jpg)

Sniper :

(http://media.nowpublic.net/images//b1/0/b10663ea9e4801f2a4fa4bb3b214a0e9.jpg)

Here we got the Mafia:
http://www.emmawoodphotos.co.uk/blog/?p=103

Notice their dangerous deminor ....
They are all recognized by the Pea shooter amigurumi Plants tattoo

(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/145/3/d/plants_vs_zombies_pea_shooter_by_shadow3217-d5121y4.jpg)


Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: K_F on February 14, 2013, 06:01:05 PM
Here's one sad story...

http://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sport/oscar-pistorius-shot-killed-girlfriend-reports/story-fndukor0-1226578161509 (http://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sport/oscar-pistorius-shot-killed-girlfriend-reports/story-fndukor0-1226578161509)
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: KeepingRealBusy on February 18, 2013, 07:57:45 AM
How about this link:

http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4497691/I-Kid-You-Not.aspx
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on February 18, 2013, 01:05:28 PM
sounds like the ammunitions manufacturers lobbyists earned their pay
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: MichaelW on February 18, 2013, 01:35:36 PM
How about this link:
http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4497691/I-Kid-You-Not.aspx

It surprises me that the poster did not anticipate this problem. It’s not the federal government that is buying everything up -- it’s the gun owners worried that Obama will issue an executive order, or some such, that will cut off their supply of guns and/or ammunition. It’s the same effect as with bottled water before a natural disaster.

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on February 18, 2013, 04:38:48 PM
Code: [Select]
I Kid You Not! member Roger Wright 16 Feb '13 - 17:29

As anyone who has been reading my posts recently knows, there is a critical shortage of ammunition in the US right now, along with a complete lack of reloading components in most popular calibers. The cause of this is - according to industry representatives - that the Obama administration has directed Homeland Security to buy up everything available for the next five years. I've even heard that police departments have had to curtail practice shooting because they can't buy ammo. Obviously, no one official is going to mention it to the press, and the press isn't interested in broadcasting the facts, but we have been effectively disarmed by the US government, without anyone having to ban anything. How long this can last before it becomes public knowledge is anyone's guess, but I had to laugh yesterday.

I thought the above was exaggeration until I looked around.

Here are more details in the links below.

Can someone please do some math on 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the next four or five years.
It sounds like a "fire trucking" amount of ammo for Homeland Security to buy.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/14/why-is-department-homeland-security-buying-so-many-bullets/

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-28/news/31247765_1_atk-rounds-bullet

I am not worried.

Don't go here Hutch.

http://www.carterscountry.net/ads.htm

Obuma knows better than to come to Texas.

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on February 18, 2013, 05:49:13 PM
Why, the 308 Remington looks good but a 308 Norma magnum looks even better.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on February 18, 2013, 10:48:23 PM
always liked the .270 weatherby magnum   :P
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 21, 2013, 02:15:11 PM
No guns where harmed in this production !

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/02/14/ronald-eugene-murray-murder-sandwich_n_2688370.html

Code: [Select]
Ronald Eugene Murray II, 26, was found guilty on Monday of voluntary manslaughter in the death of Mun Jang, who he punched and kicked on Oct. 1, 2011 so severely that Jang died two days later in a hospital, the Daily Breeze reported.
The attack occurred after Murray purchased a pastrami sandwich at a restaurant called Donut King. When he took his first bite, some of the meat fell out and Jang laughed at him, according to the Associated Press.
That angered Murray, who snapped, "Who you laughing at?" He became even more upset when the clerk behind the glass refused his request for another sandwich at half-price, according to Deputy District Attorney Jennifer Turk.
"The real focus of his anger were the people who would not give him a sandwich," Turk said, according to the San Jose Mercury News. "The only person he could take his rage out on was the victim."
Prosecutors said Murray sucker-punched Jang and hit him repeatedly, then threw the sandwich so hard at Jang's head that mayonnaise and lettuce stuck in his ear, NewJerseyNewsroom.com reported.
Murray testified that he acted in self-defense and claimed that after slipping on the pastrami, he fell to the floor and saw Jang standing over him with clenched fists, UPI.com reported.
Murray is facing a maximum of 11 years in prison and will be sentenced on March 4, according to the San Jose Mercury News.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 21, 2013, 02:17:25 PM
You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talking... you talking to me? Well I'm the only one here.


LOL
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on February 21, 2013, 06:19:59 PM
 :biggrin:

There is only one solution to this terrible problem, arrest the pastrami sandwich and make sure it is never used in anger again. Now I guess you can tell when a pastrami sandwich is truly malicious when bits of it start falling out which in turn generates mirth in bystanders. Now if the gun grabbers had campaigned to arrest, detain and fully ban the pastrami sandwich this terrible incident would never have happened.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on February 22, 2013, 02:01:53 AM
I wouldn't mind trying the Weatherby .460 Magnum.

Would have to use 3 sandbags though.  :t

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on February 22, 2013, 02:27:56 AM
Andy,
i think that's what they call an "elephant gun" - lol
if i'm not mistaken, elephants are off the menu

as for the pastrami....
the thought occured to me, the other day,
that the USDA and FDA allow the use of certain growth hormones on US livestock
maybe these hormones are a part of the reason the US has such high stats in mass murders
could also explain this guy with his pastrami - too much red meat in his diet

the FDA is totally based on "who has the most money", rather than "what is healthiest"

so - let us keep our guns and ammo, just shut down all the deli's   :P
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on February 22, 2013, 04:07:56 AM
No, Dave that is a dinosaur or alien gun.

And there are on the menu.  :t

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on February 22, 2013, 04:26:54 AM
 :lol:
yah - we had a tyrannosaurus running down the street, last week
a neighbor took him down with a 20mm....

(http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/small-arms-personal-weapons/29868d1345737866-my-first-rifle-purchase-grizzly-bear-defence-mind-sks-20mm022standingatangle-fp.jpg)

afterwards, he showed us that you can get a tune out of the thing by playing "Dualing Banjos"   :lol:

i was off a little on the elephant gun thing - i was thinking of the .458 - close enough
i just know that i can't afford to buy the ammo   :biggrin:

here is a relatively new caliber you might like, the .700 Nitro Xpress T-Rex.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YWqkX8ZLDI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YWqkX8ZLDI)

i have fired some .50 caliber black-powder rifles
the kick was pretty good - i think an old 30-30 has a little more
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: K_F on February 22, 2013, 06:23:34 AM
(http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/small-arms-personal-weapons/29868d1345737866-my-first-rifle-purchase-grizzly-bear-defence-mind-sks-20mm022standingatangle-fp.jpg)
Is this thing for real ??   :dazzled:
I don't think you need a telescopic sight on that thing (unless you want to lose an eye, the eye cranium bit, and the brain behind the I).. it's more of an 'area' weapon that takes out anything in close proximity
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on February 22, 2013, 06:49:04 AM
yah - i would imagine the mass of the weapon helps a little with the recoil
the heavier the weapon, the less kick

can't imagine paying however much it costs to fire a single 20mm round
personally, i have better things to do with my money - lol
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on February 22, 2013, 07:58:08 AM
I looked up the ballistics for the .700 nitro, only comparable or less than .460 Weatherby.

I doubt he's holding a 20mm rifle.

If a Weatherby .460 puts bruises on your shoulder when you are using two bags of lead between the gun and your shoulder, a 20mm would, at the very least, break your shoulder in two.

I have some waterfront property in Arizona i would love to sell ya.  :t

Andy

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on February 22, 2013, 09:04:22 AM
it's an Anzio 20mm rifle - they weigh 59 to 130 lbs, ~38,000 ft-lbs muzzle energy

the rifle in the 700 nitro video weighs about 18 lbs, ~3,900 ft-lbs muzzle energy

the amount of kick is roughly proportional to the (muzzle energy) / (rifle weight)

not that i want to fire any of them - lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y4724P6Da4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y4724P6Da4)
notice, the bipod helps a lot
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on February 22, 2013, 09:17:33 AM
btw - 20mm is .787 caliber or something
although, it does have a much larger shell casing than hunting calibers   :P
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 22, 2013, 11:48:23 AM
Nice link dedndave ,
Led me to :
econo can


(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7236/7272779258_d912bfc769_b.jpg)

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/haiqFcIXTqs/0.jpg)

Sweet  :biggrin:

I also love the "50 bmg subsonic rounds in a form 1 suppressor"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=vVCtGtxZyoQ#

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: MichaelW on February 22, 2013, 12:04:13 PM
In addition to a high mass, the rifle could have a built in recoil reduction mechanism like the Barrett 50’s, and the object at the end of the barrel looks like a muzzle brake.

Those silencers look like they were made from oil filters. The orange looks like the color that Fram uses. I wonder if they machine the exit port, or just let the first round do it :biggrin:
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on February 22, 2013, 12:20:19 PM

All they do is buy that washer ( adapter) , and an empty Fran filter, first shot makes a hole :)


Look here :
Video is linked On site

 http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Class_III.html

Or
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/04/24/econo-can-a-55-suppressor
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hfheatherfox07 on March 12, 2013, 11:32:00 AM
I figured I will post this in the gun thread  :biggrin:
I heard about it on the drive home , and laughed so hard  :biggrin:

Oklahoma:woman arrested with loaded gun in vagina

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4829108/police-arrest-woman-and-find-gun-inside-her-vagina.html


Google "woman with gun handle out of vagina" LOL
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on March 12, 2013, 12:02:06 PM
she likes it when it goes "bang"   :P
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Don57 on March 12, 2013, 05:05:53 PM
We use to thread john deer oil filters on to lee enfields when I was a kid in northern ontario. All very exciting, but I wouldn't recommend taking more than 2 shots with it. On another note I use to own a .458 magnium, and it's not a gun that you would want to target shoot with all day long, it would leave quite the nice bruise after 5 or 6 rounds.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on March 12, 2013, 05:08:03 PM
Don, what were you hunting with a .458 magnum, elephants or rhinos ?
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Don57 on March 12, 2013, 05:15:12 PM
Moose. When I was a kid I had a .303 round bounce off the skull cap of a moose, as a result  it got very upset and charged me. An upset moose is not a pleasant thing, it tends to knock over everything in it's path including trees. It took 5 rounds from a .357 revolver to bring it down. So I was determined that it would never happen again. I agree a little over kill, but better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on March 12, 2013, 06:28:25 PM
Don,

Not a dissimilar story to my own, used to go shooting feral pigs long ago and I saw a guy shoot a big boar in the head with a .303 from front on and it furrowed up its skull, took out one eye and the pig was very unhappy. He took it out with the second shot. I shortly after bought a Winchester 44 magnum. They definitely stopped after the first shot.  :biggrin: Apparently the guys who specialise in shooting big pigs like solids in a 12 guage.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on March 12, 2013, 09:55:44 PM
we have javelina here in Az - similar to a wild boar

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/game_javelina.shtml (http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/game_javelina.shtml)

i can see using a .458 on them - they have a very thick skull
i don't care for the meat, so was never interested in hunting them
but, they are pretty easy to find - and you could make some nice leather from their hides

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: MichaelW on March 13, 2013, 12:13:20 PM
If by “Javelina” you mean a Peccary, they are tiny compared to the more dangerous and harder to kill feral hogs. For an extreme example do a search for “Hogzilla.”
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on March 13, 2013, 12:41:54 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,275524,00.html

You weren't kidding.

I don't think even a grizzly would take one on.

Andy
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on March 13, 2013, 10:52:28 PM
man, that thing is huge
one might expect to see a picture like that in something like "the national enquirer"
or - posted on the internet in a photoshop contest   :P

i would hate to come across a critter like that
it would tend to make you understand how food feels - lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Pig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Pig)
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on March 13, 2013, 11:52:04 PM
I would bet you can feel the ground rumbling when it comes near.

Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: MichaelW on March 14, 2013, 12:27:53 AM
The biggest problem for hunters is with boars that have been wounded. They have large tusks, and because the upper and lower tusks constantly rub on each other they are very sharp. In recent times hunters protect their “hog dogs” with Kevlar vests.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on March 14, 2013, 06:26:51 AM
that other one appears to have been a hoax
this one (the one Michael mentioned) seems to be credible

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogzilla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogzilla)

not quite as big - but more pig than i want to run into
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on March 14, 2013, 12:55:52 PM
In OZ pigs were not indigenous and are exclusively domesticated pigs that have gone wild. Apart from crocodiles in the northern part of Australia, there are no predators that keep them in check and without regular shooters helping out, they become a feral nuisance that kill stock and damage property. Long ago I have seen guys try and hunt pigs with .22 rifles which are of little value with a bigger boar, a .303 does the job most of the time but if you want to stop them first shot, a big bore gun is the way to go.

I used to use a .44 magnum Winchester that did the job fine. A .44 Marlin was better but were a nasty noisy thing to use and I have seen guys use solids in a 12# shotgun but they really kick and will sit you on your butt if you don't know how to use them. Main problem is folks who have only ever lived in urban environments have no idea of the feral animal problem in OZ and only think in terms of their own safety as they perceive it and the end result is drive by shooting in Sydney's western suburbs, armed criminals, drug dealers with exotic toys like Uzzis and the terrorist market who have things like RPGs and specialised assault rifles.

The people who need them are pissed around so badly that they no longer bother and folks on properties even when the jump through hoops to get the licences cannot hunt in adjoining national parks so they can never beat the odds of dogs, cats, pigs, horses, donkeys, camels and anything else much that are out of control.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on March 14, 2013, 03:19:05 PM
Pigs Gone Wild ?   :biggrin:

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1774/pigsgonewild.jpg)
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on March 14, 2013, 04:04:45 PM
3 out of 4 could be taken down with a 30-30
but, that one requires something heavier   :lol:

were it not for the re-load time, i would think a .50 muzzle-loader would be ideal
i hate to use slugs on a shotgun for fear of damaging the barrel
but, if you had one that wasn't particularly special, probably a good way to go
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: FORTRANS on March 14, 2013, 10:49:45 PM
Hi,

Quote
cannot hunt in adjoining national parks so they can never beat the odds of dogs, cats, pigs, horses, donkeys, camels and anything else much that are out of control.

   Probably not good hunting, but how are the rabbits and cane
toads doing?

Cheers,

Steve N.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: K_F on March 14, 2013, 11:01:09 PM
Those 'Pigs' are caressing their batons too much for my liking  :eusa_dance:  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on March 15, 2013, 01:01:36 AM
Steve,

Sad to say both are doing really well, Mixo worked well on the rabbits but the cow cockies got lazy and did not dig out the remaining borrows and eventually you got resistant strains of rabbits. When the cane toads were brought here from South America, they were supposed to eat a particular beetle in the cane fields which did not happen but they adapted very well and have gone forth and multiplied and multiplied and multiplied.

Davce,

Do you mean "Walk on the wild side" ? Surely your better half wised you up to 1960s English "camp" humour. There used to be a team of actors who did series like "On the busses" and a whole host of other similar TV programs. I confess I could not stand any of it but I could listen to Dick Emery and even Benny Hill if I was bored.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on March 15, 2013, 01:33:16 AM
wifee is a bit younger, but she is still into the old humour - lol
they like puns alot, and think you are really smart if you can get about 4 of them in one sentance
and, they have an obsession with humour involving rabbits (she explained that one to me)
some British humour, i need her to explain to me, then it still isn't funny   :biggrin:
some of it's funny - some of it, i can take for about 10 minutes
a while back, i tried to watch Monty Python Holy Grail - zzzzzzzzzzzz
thing about Zara is, we think alike on many things, so we understand each other, at least
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on March 15, 2013, 10:40:40 AM
30-30 is a bit weak on the power side.

No offense intended to that cartridge.

Andy

P.S. I prefer something that can penetrate a motor block, like a 41 magnum etc.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: MichaelW on March 15, 2013, 11:07:28 AM
Last week I talked to a guy that hunts feral hogs with bow and arrow, because the landowners don’t want people shooting guns there.
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: dedndave on March 15, 2013, 11:39:36 AM
i haven't looked at the Arizona laws for javelina, lately
but, i seem to recall they had a much better deal if you used a bow
a little surprising, as they have had trouble with them coming into urban areas, from time to time
you'd think they would want to thin them out

the big deals here are elk and, especially, big-horned sheep
it's hard enough to get drawn for elk
but, i think they only hand out a few big-horned sheep tags each year

they also have black bear tags - i don't know how many they hand out - probably not many
as long as i have lived here, i have never seen a bear in the wild - lol
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: jj2007 on March 21, 2013, 06:41:06 AM
When the cane toads were brought here from South America, they were supposed to eat a particular beetle in the cane fields which did not happen but they adapted very well and have gone forth and multiplied and multiplied and multiplied.

They have reached Italy now!! HELP!!! (http://r33b.net/)
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: Magnum on March 21, 2013, 09:27:10 AM
When the cane toads were brought here from South America, they were supposed to eat a particular beetle in the cane fields which did not happen but they adapted very well and have gone forth and multiplied and multiplied and multiplied.

They have reached Italy now!! HELP!!! (http://r33b.net/)

Man tends to think that he "can help God" and do things like that.

Texas has a problem with Chinese tallow trees.

It is considered an invasive species.

But it looks the Chinese have a different perspective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_tallow
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: hutch-- on March 21, 2013, 11:44:20 AM
JJ,

> They have reached Italy now!! HELP!!!

Is that what they call Berlesconi in Italy these days ?
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: jj2007 on March 21, 2013, 05:06:32 PM
Is that what they call Berlesconi in Italy these days ?

Nope, but I offer a beer to the one who has the magic powers to transform him into a toad :icon14:
Title: Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
Post by: xanatose on March 28, 2013, 03:42:26 AM
Gun controls is not about guns. Is about control.

None of the collectivist are asking that government disarm itself. So the problem is not with the guns, but the notion that people that government do not approve of should not have access to guns.

To all of them I give one word: DEMOCIDE.

Collectivist: Those who believe that the collective owns the individual and thus there are no rights, but privileges given by the collective. This makes the individual not better than a slave to the whims of the collective.

Individualists: Those who believe that each and every individual owns itself, and thus have unalienable rights. Including, but not limited,  the right to defend yourself. The collective does not grant rights. The collective just recognize rights. Thus it cannot grant, nor remove the rights of the individual.