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General => The Colosseum => Topic started by: Magnum on October 18, 2014, 06:30:23 AM

Title: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on October 18, 2014, 06:30:23 AM
Dear Attorney General Eric Holder,

In approving same sex marriages, it looks to me like you thinks that God has no say so in your life.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).

The same applies to lower federal courts that have upheld same sex marriages.

They have overridden those states who have passed laws to outlaw homosexuality.

The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791.[1] It expresses the principle of federalism, which under girds the entire plan of the original Constitution, by stating that the federal government possesses only those powers delegated to it by the states or the people. The framers of this amendment had two purposes in mind when they drafted it. The first was a necessary rule of construction. The second was to reaffirm the nature of the federal system.[2]

 The U.S. government was never delegated the power to regulate marriage.

Do you feel that you are above the law ?

Best regards,
                        xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I don't expect a response other than being put on a watch list. :-)

I expect the courts to approve marriages to pets next.

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on October 18, 2014, 09:21:41 AM
> I expect the courts to approve marriages to pets next.

This is the one I am waiting for. When I get much older I want to buy a very good looking Siamese Cat, marry it and leave my worldly goods to it.

Now regarding your assertion that you can sit in judgement of other people on the basis of your understanding of the Bible, try reading the book.
Quote
American Standard Version
The Revelation to Saint John
Chapter 22
11    He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still.
12    Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.

In asserting that you or the religious loonie tunes in the US can usurp the role of their creator and sit in judgement of others, again try reading the book.
Quote
American Standard Version
The First Book of Moses, called Genesis
Chapter 3
1    Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?
2    And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat:
3    but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4    And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5    for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.

People undertaking the role of God has a very bad track record, perhaps you should be willing to give up on the idea and stop sitting in judgement of other people.

This is the price of your foolishness.
Quote
American Standard Version
The Revelation to Saint John
Chapter 22
18    I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:
19    and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

The solution is for you to repent of your wicked ways and stop trying to act as if you are God.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Zen on October 18, 2014, 09:36:04 AM
Behold,...
...I hate threads like this,...
The whole concept of homosexual marriage is ridiculous.
...But, invoking the Old Testament is even more ridiculous,...

...I like this one from Bill Maher: "If your father is a dangerous zealot who describes homosexuals as 'sinners' who practice 'selfish hedonism', you have a moral duty to become a lesbian. Now if can get yourself impregnated by David Crosby, and then immediately get an abortion, I think we can drive Daddy right over the edge."

...Twisted and depraved,...but, FUNNY,...
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on October 18, 2014, 10:04:41 AM
Hutch,

No one is acting like God.

I feel that God is Sovereign

God has a will. By Himself and with assistance from NO ONE he makes decisions and policies and sets up policies. He has the right to do as He pleases. All always acts in accordance with all the other attributes of His character, and will never express one attribute at the expense of another.
 
For example, a mother may tell he child that he will receive a spanking if he plays with matches.
 But then when the child plays with matches and burns himself,  she may forgo the spanking, and instead hold him in her lap.

In that case she has expressed her love at the expense of her justice.

Not so with God. He knows how to express His love without compromising His justice. (Deut. 4:39, 1 Chron. 29:12, Psalms 47:2, 83:18, 93:1, 135:6; Daniel 4:35; Acts 17:24

Code: [Select]
American Standard Version
The Revelation to Saint John
Chapter 22

John  has only 21 chapters. :-)

Get your facts first, and then you can distort them. :-)
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on October 18, 2014, 10:13:31 AM
Behold,...
...I hate threads like this,...
The whole concept of homosexual marriage is ridiculous.
...But, invoking the Old Testament is even more ridiculous,...


Zen,

Sounds like you also feel that homosexuality is wrong.

Would you prefer some new testament scriptures regarding homosexuality ?

I am doing some more research and will post more later.

This is a good open discussion and it's not important that everyone agree. :-)

Take care,
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on October 18, 2014, 11:38:35 AM
 :biggrin:

Quote
American Standard Version
The Revelation to Saint John
Chapter 22

John  has only 21 chapters. :-)

You have confused the Gospel of John with the The Revelation to Saint John and this show just how little you know about your belief system. Its evident that you are being fed bullsh*t from some crap heap holy roller and don't understand or read your Bible.

Just remember on Judgement day that it will not be you sitting on the throne, it will be you standing in front of it saying "Gee I am sorry I tried to act like God" and unless your name is written in the book of life there is a fiery exit waiting for you to a place that used to be called Gehenna, a rubbish dump outside of Jerusalem.

Now to avoid the ending up on the trash heap, you need to repent of your wicked ways and give up trying to be God where you sit in judgement of other people. The Revelation of John makes it perfectly clear that you should not be doing things like this.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: carlos on October 18, 2014, 01:09:52 PM

I feel that this tread is stretching the rules of the forum, regarding religious matters (I may be wrong).

The state were I live (Coahuila) vecome in august, the SECOND state in México in permiting igalitarian marriage, behind the Distrito Federal, and I AM PROUD of the state I live for the progresive tinking of it's legislature.

Magnum, You don't like to marry anhoter man?, then DON'T MARRY ANOTHER MAN, but your preferences can not be imposed on another people, they have the rigth to chose who they marry, as long as they are coonsenting adults. and neither you nor ANYBODY sholud  have any say in the mater

using a 2000 year book as a guide of social interaction is .... not correct to say the least

Luis Carlos Pacheco
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on October 18, 2014, 01:11:43 PM
Code: [Select]
American Standard Version
The Revelation to Saint John
Chapter 22
18    I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:
19    and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

I think you do not understand the passage.

It means that anyone who adds or takes away from the words of Revelation.

You may want to check Revelation 22:15.

14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: carlos on October 18, 2014, 01:20:20 PM
Code: [Select]
American Standard Version
The Revelation to Saint John
Chapter 22
18    I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:
19    and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

I think you do not understand the passage.

It means that anyone who adds or takes away from the words of Revelation.

You may want to check Revelation 22:15.

14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

You follow the bible,  2/3 of the world population DON'T follow it,   I don't follow it (I don't follow ANY religion, I don't believe in ANY god) many people in USA don't follow it,  YOU don't have the rigth to impose your ( or the bible) views upon them. or will you like to have the muslim, or budist, or comunist views ON YOU???? I guess not (I don't like it) Live and let live

Luis Carlos Pacheco
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on October 18, 2014, 02:12:15 PM
Andy,

Quote
14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

The difference here is that YOU are trying to be the judge and that is not your role. When you act or support controlling other people on the basis of your religious view through the use of law, you are acting against the Gospel you claim to support. Now what I have suggested to you is to repent of your wicked ways, stop trying to be "like God" and leave the judgement of others to the day of Judgement. I am pleased to see that you at last understood the difference between John's Gospel and the Revelation of John but you yet to learn the lesson of not trying to grasp at the power that belongs to the creator.

When the serpent enticed Eve to take the fruit of the tree of Good and Evil, it was done on the basis of "you can be like God". Surely you can grasp that this is a foolish thing to do. Now to come back to the Heresy that you are trying to inflict on others, look again at the reference from the Revelation of John.

Quote
American Standard Version
The Revelation to Saint John
Chapter 22
18    I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:
19    and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

Whether you understand it or not, you are trying to remove the directive that the author has made about leaving things as they are and we would hate to see you have your name scratched out of the Book Of Life through a failure to understand what you are doing.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on October 18, 2014, 02:43:03 PM
Interesting discussion.

Hope you have a great evening.

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: anunitu on October 18, 2014, 06:59:46 PM
I myself think we may have gone down the rabbit hole,programming is the grove we dance to,but this is a bit off topic... :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on October 19, 2014, 07:32:36 AM
That's why it's posted in the Colosseum.

But we are more advanced than gladiators. :-)



Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: jj2007 on October 19, 2014, 12:54:49 PM
Andy Taliban K.,

It seems Hutch has read the Holy Bible much more intensely than you will ever be able to do. Jesus had a very special view regarding hypocrits. Watch out, hell may still exist.

And be aware that you are dishonouring the U.S. flag by displaying it close to such bulls**t :icon_redface:
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: habran on October 19, 2014, 02:52:19 PM
Luis :t Carlos :t Pacheco :t  :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: dedndave on October 20, 2014, 01:01:11 AM
i saw a news article the other day where some ditzy lady married herself   :lol:

i give it about 6 months
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: dedndave on October 20, 2014, 01:28:50 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/nadine-schweigert-woman-marries-herself_n_1546024.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/nadine-schweigert-woman-marries-herself_n_1546024.html)
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: K_F on October 20, 2014, 02:27:39 AM
i give it about 6 months

It actually depends on how long they've known each other... the longer it is, the longer they'll last, but this depends whether a 3rd self doesn't interfere though :)
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Tedd on October 20, 2014, 02:37:48 AM
Dear Andy,

As you are so clearly intent on living your life according to the Old Testament, I feel it my duty to outline a few points you may have overlooked.
I hope this list was helpful. Now you may live a more righteous life and enter into Heaven, as you are hoping.

So, with all of these terrible afflictions plaguing mankind--so many sinners no matter where you look--why are you not out there reminding them of their evils? Why is it that you focus so strongly on this single issue of homosexuality? What exactly is your obsession? Did you indulge yourself as a teen, but now feel embarrassed and regretful, and want to make sure nobody else makes the same mistake?

But wait, aren't you Christian? If so, there's something else you may have overlooked. I'd like to think not, but since you're pointing out the law from the Old Testament, it seems like you may have. That thing? It's just the old insignificant part where Jesus died on the cross. Does it ring any bells? I suppose it is quite easy to forget.

The entire point of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was to absolve humanity of the inherited sins and covenants. In other words, obligations from the Old Testament no longer apply. "It is finished." (John 19:30)

So, by continuing to follow, and requiring others follow, the Old Testament, what you're really saying is "Jesus died on the cross, but I don't really care - it was for nothing. Haha, what a fool!"

Now, if you want to be a good Christian, you should follow the New Testament. That contains the teachings of Jesus and his followers - this is where Christianity comes from. Good luck finding quotes to support your bigotry there; and if you continue to quote the Old Testament, then you are showing yourself to be both a bad Christian and a hypocrite.

A good Christian strives to live as Jesus did - with love, understanding, tolerance, and forgiveness.

With love (a strong manly love, between two men, totally not homosexual),
Tedd.


P.S. Religion is much like having a penis. You have every right to own one; you have every right to enjoy it; and you have every right to be proud of it. But do not try to shove it down others' throats (at least without invitation.)
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: K_F on October 20, 2014, 02:40:40 AM
 :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_mrgreen: Here's a controversial explanation:  :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_mrgreen:
Magnum:
By letting religion interfere with natural selection, you will 'propagate' your problem.

By forcing people to be what they're not really are, you..

1) Make a lot of people unhappy, which will lead to some type of revolution
2) Widen the Gay gene pool, which will increase the gay revolutionary numbers.
3) One day it'll be just to dangerous just to drop the soap in the street.

So by allowing same-sex marriages, etc

1) They'll be happy (although they can be super bitchez) = no revolution.
2) Gay gene pool, by natural selection, is reduced..
3) and you'll be free to shop for all your sanitary requirements, without having to continuously look behind you..

 :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: anunitu on October 20, 2014, 07:07:04 AM
Oh,you guys are being mean to the "Special" kid,now stop that and go play kick ball over there....(sorry,don't mean to be sarcastic but it was kinda an open shot) Forgive me hutch,I will go and sin no more...Hail hutch full of grace....
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on October 20, 2014, 09:45:14 AM
> Hail hutch full of grace....

Wasn't it Mary that was "full of grace" ? I don't have a Catholic background so I don't know the details here.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: anunitu on October 20, 2014, 10:04:01 AM
Both you and that church gonna send me straight to hell....But ya know I was always headed that way...
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: sinsi on October 20, 2014, 10:39:26 AM
More like "Hail hutch full of Grouse (http://www.thefamousgrouse.com)"
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on October 20, 2014, 10:45:08 AM
Some of our Christians should remember that: All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.(St. Mathew 5, 37).

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on October 20, 2014, 10:52:28 AM
Hmmmm,

I may give "The Glenturret Highland Single Malt" a try but I am not into blended whisky at all.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on October 20, 2014, 11:08:32 AM
Hmmmm,

I may give "The Glenturret Highland Single Malt" a try but I am not into blended whisky at all.

the blended whisky is better for Andy. I mean whisky, not bourbon.  :lol:

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on October 20, 2014, 01:28:09 PM
Some of our Christians should remember that: All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.(St. Mathew 5, 37).

Gunther

Gunther,

Based on the responses, I don't think there are many Christians here.

"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John 16:33

I am at peace despite any and all attacks on me.

And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Phillipians 4:7

I pray for everyone.

Andy
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: habran on October 20, 2014, 01:39:40 PM
Some of our Christians should remember that: All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.(St. Mathew 5, 37).

Gunther
Thank you Gunther for enlighten me :t
I always suspected that 'Maybe' is an evil word
I think that ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ is to big freedom for people, I wold reduce it to only ‘Yes’ (like OPTUS did)
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on October 20, 2014, 01:55:37 PM
I am not familiar with Optus.

Who is he ?

Gunther got me to thinking about Matthew 5:37.

Some study notes said this about that scripture :

The Old Testament allowed oaths except those that profaned the name of God. Jesus would do away will all oaths, in favor of always speaking the truth.

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on October 20, 2014, 02:01:15 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/nadine-schweigert-woman-marries-herself_n_1546024.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/nadine-schweigert-woman-marries-herself_n_1546024.html)

Even though her kids choose to stay with their dad, she was strong enuf to not start drinking.

That is pretty positive.

Dave, some friends in high places said that you were aboard the X-37b.

Tell me it ain't so. :-)

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: sinsi on October 20, 2014, 02:02:34 PM
>I am not familiar with Optus.

Who is he ?

(http://smb.optus.com.au/opfiles/v11204/ys/online-style/images/logo/logo_optus.png)
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: anunitu on October 20, 2014, 03:09:21 PM
No Mags,not everyone here is christian,in fact one of us is a PAGAN...So hold down the rhetoric about your preferred religious belief. I will not argue bible text with you,though I could because I had to memorize it cover to cover as a kid. And still I became a PAGAN because you meet a better class of people in those circles..
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on October 20, 2014, 08:57:27 PM
Hi anunitu,

No Mags,not everyone here is christian,in fact one of us is a PAGAN...So hold down the rhetoric about your preferred religious belief. I will not argue bible text with you,though I could because I had to memorize it cover to cover as a kid. And still I became a PAGAN because you meet a better class of people in those circles..

I know that Andy does not like to hear it, but Christianity has a lot of pagan roots. That's well known.

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on October 21, 2014, 12:27:14 AM
I can tolerate anyone believing what they like, as long as they don't try and inflict it on other people. Anything that has to be inflicted by force is already a failure and it does not matter who it was, some flavours of early Christianity were inflicted by force, much the same with some flavours of Islam. The Romans did it and others before them. Broad and tolerant societies have a good track record, the alternative is mired in its own failure. Islamic Al Adalus (Spain) was a wonderful place until the north African fanatics invaded and inflicted their own strict Islam, Norman Sicily was a vibrant multi-cultural society until the Normans died out and it became strict Roman Catholic.

When the fanatics take over and inflict their disease on others by force, the wheels start to fall off. Spain went from being a powerhouse to a flop when they kicked out the Muslims and Jews, I wonder why the loonies never learn ?
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on October 21, 2014, 12:31:16 AM
I can tolerate anyone believing what they like, as long as they don't try and inflict it on other people.

Amen to that.  :t

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: caballero on October 21, 2014, 10:16:32 PM
Spain went from being a powerhouse to a flop when they kicked out the Muslims and Jews
Hmmmm. Are you sure of this?

Spain was a Roman province. You have probably seen the movie Gladiator, Maximo Decimo Meridio lived in Emerita Augusta, capital of Lusitania, one of the largest Roman provinces of Hispania, today known as Mérida (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9rida_(Espa%C3%B1a)), after that was invaded by Goths, Visigoths, etc. During the years 711 to 726 was in turn invaded by Muslims. "La Reconquista" (reconqueror), or process in which Spaniards begin to recover their territory against Muslim invaders starts at 722 and ends at 1492 with the fall of the kingdom of Granada.

The expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492 was ordered by the Catholic Monarchs. [Notice the years].

It was the October 12, 1492 when Christopher Columbus at the service of Spain discoveres America. What this man was looking for was an alternate trade route between Spain and India to avoid tolls, relying on the idea that the Earth was round. When he arrived at America he thought he had reached India and called the natives Indians. In fact died without knowing that he had discovered a new continent.

In 1494 Spain and Portugal divided the New World with the Treaty of Tordesillas (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tratado_de_Tordesillas) with the blessing of then Pope. A dividing line to the left for Spain, the rest was drawn to Portugal. In such a way that what it is now known as Brazil was to the right of this dividing line and became part of Portugal.

During the reign of Philip II (king of Spain from 1527 to 1598) the famous phrase "In Spain the sun never sets," he said. Referring to the number of territories that became pertener to Spain: from America to the Philippines. In fact, the name of Phhilippines was in honor of Philip II.

The Spanish Golden Age spans two centuries: XVI and XVII [Notice the years]. One of the last colonies to take independence was Cuba in 1895, long time after the expulsion of Muslims and Jews.

I do not follow much more. The decline of Spain is due to the enormous costs that kept stupid wars and mismanagement.

It is incomprehensible that expelled the Jews from Spain for religious reasons, but the issue of Muslims was a simple matter of reconquest.

Regards
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 04, 2014, 07:07:00 PM
Andy Taliban K.,

It seems Hutch has read the Holy Bible much more intensely than you will ever be able to do. Jesus had a very special view regarding hypocrits. Watch out, hell may still exist.

And be aware that you are dishonouring the U.S. flag by displaying it close to such bulls**t :icon_redface:

Resorting to name calling. Says much about your character.



Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: jj2007 on November 04, 2014, 07:38:44 PM
Andy Taliban K.

Resorting to name calling. Says much about your character.

I call you Taliban because you behave like one. Jesus taught his people to love their enemies, but you are full of hatred against anybody who is different. Let's blame your pain for that behaviour, but please stop abusing the Bible for justifying your obsessions.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 04, 2014, 08:17:15 PM
You are full of a lot of anger.

But I forgive you and have no hard feelings no how many times you or others attack me.

You can never take away my joy.



Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: carlos on November 05, 2014, 04:47:50 PM
Islamic Al Adalus (Spain) was a wonderful place until the north African fanatics invaded and inflicted their own strict Islam,
 Spain went from being a powerhouse to a flop when they kicked out the Muslims and Jews, I wonder why the loonies never learn ?

Al Andalus was not invaded by north african islamic fanatics,  but  by north spain catolic fanatics (Just like Latin America) and you were rigth, the moment jews and muslims were evicted by Los reyes catolicos Spain started his intelectual decadence,
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: caballero on November 05, 2014, 05:56:33 PM
Your post are full of nonsenses and evidences your own prejuices. Where you get your ideas from? That happens when you read only the half of a paper. Al Andalus was a wonderful place for who? I guess that not for spaniards. As i demonstrated in previous post the expulsion of jews and muslims had nothing to do with the declive of Spain.

Cheers
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on November 05, 2014, 08:29:15 PM
Sorry guys, I missed your replies. Al Andalus is in fact very well documented and I also have some very good documentary evidence on its history. In about 715AD the Moors began the conquest of the Iberian peninsula eventually establishing the Caliphate of Cordoba. This was the golden era in Islamic Al Andalus with co-operation between Muslims, Jews and Christians in a highly literate and tolerant society. In the 10th century the Berbers began to take control of Al Andalus and with a period of internal civil wars between different Muslim factions, the Islamic grip on Al Andalus began to weaken.

Progressive wars from the Christian monarchs eventually weakened and defeated the remnants of Islamic Al Andalus, this being helped along by the number of knights that returned from the Crusades who had little else to do that fight somewhere else. The last city Granada fell in 1492 and the joint kingdoms of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile took control of what is now Spain. The Jews were expelled in 1492 while the Muslims lasted a little longer in some parts of Spain before being expelled in 1609.

At its best some hundreds of years earlier, Al Andalus was the source of much of the ancient knowledge from the Greek and Roman period that had been lost in Europe but had survived in the Islamic countries. Authors like Tacitus, Seutonius, Plato and many others came back into Europe through Moorish Spain. At its worst closer to its end, it became rigidly intolerant of non-Muslim religions.

The new Spain was a mixed blessing, instead of the heavy handed Berber influence, they had heavy handed Catholic influence at the hands of people like Tomás de Torquemada and the less than pleasant experience of people being burnt alive for being suspected of being secret Jews and other deviations from Catholicism. It was the French under Napoleon who eventually freed Spaniards from fear of the Inquisition.

Now interestingly enough, the Moors tried to invade what is now France in the 7th Century but ran into Charles "The Hammer" Martel who decisively defeated the invasions and the Moors never gained a foothold in France.
 
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: caballero on November 06, 2014, 11:47:27 PM
I'm impressed about your knowledge of Spain history. Nevertheless the origin of Spain was Hispania as a province of Rome. It was invaded several times, and also by muslims. I fear that in those days invasions were pretty bloody. Don't believe that Christians Spaniards were so happy with that. What I never understood when I studied this issue was why the Jews were expelled. A people that has suffered many blows, I'm afraid.

Regards
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: anunitu on November 07, 2014, 12:37:23 AM
One thing you always need to remember,these things are acts of EMPIRE,not really religion,though the two are melded at times.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on November 07, 2014, 01:08:50 AM
Spain has a fascinating history, unfortunately much of it was sad, years ago I watched a 10 part series on the Spanish Civil War and I have never seen so many dead bodies or so much misery. At its peak the Spanish empire extended to much of South America and great riches were taken out of the Inca areas of Peru but like many other European royalties, it was not always well spent, many lived in fear of the Inquisition, they had lost the connections that the Jews and Muslims had in commerce and were plundered by the English pirates with much of the riches coming from South America.

The later Bourbon dynasty became so inbred that they were close to useless and appeared to contribute to the decline of Spain until Napoleon invaded and changed the political structure. They left a legacy in South America apart from Brasil that went to the Portuguese and while not all of it was good, it has generally survived as a cultural model.

Now funny enough, my younger brother and his girlfriend have just been to Spain, another friend and his girlfriend and neighbors of mine were also there, all at the same time so Spain must be popular at the moment.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 07, 2014, 01:25:29 AM
Hi anunitu,

No Mags,not everyone here is christian,in fact one of us is a PAGAN...So hold down the rhetoric about your preferred religious belief. I will not argue bible text with you,though I could because I had to memorize it cover to cover as a kid. And still I became a PAGAN because you meet a better class of people in those circles..

I know that Andy does not like to hear it, but Christianity has a lot of pagan roots. That's well known.

Gunther

It doesn't bother me.

The Crusades is one example of non-Christian behavior.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: anunitu on November 07, 2014, 01:43:53 AM
While you might say the Crusades were non christian,they were financed by the then Church(back then church and state were one,with the church controlling everything) So a bit of a cop out...
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on November 07, 2014, 05:07:32 AM
Andy,

It doesn't bother me.

The Crusades is one example of non-Christian behavior.

that's not what I mean. I meant that Christmas, Easter and Pentecost - to name only these - have pagan roots.

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 07, 2014, 05:37:01 PM
Halloween too.

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on November 07, 2014, 06:34:23 PM
Hi Andy,

Halloween too.

that's not so common here in Europe. The US have another tradition in that case.

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 08, 2014, 12:46:46 PM
When I visited Deutschland, October Fest was pretty popular.

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on November 08, 2014, 11:48:27 PM
When I visited Deutschland, October Fest was pretty popular.

The Oktoberfest in Munich has nothing to do with Christianity or Paganism. The people drinking a lot of beer (in 1 liter pitchers!). A lot of those buddies are drunk and brawls are not seldom. That's the content of the Oktoberfest in Munich, a Bavarian specialty.

Gunther 
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: anunitu on November 08, 2014, 11:57:44 PM
As I read,Oktoberfest began because all beer was stored in caved,and the last day I guess before Fall/winter(all the beer was taken out to be consumed before winter so as not to be wasted. Seems I was wrong as to how it started,seems it had to do with a royal wedding.

http://www.ofest.com/history.html

Well,any excuse to drink a lot of beer works for me... :dazzled:
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on November 09, 2014, 12:08:12 AM
Hi anunitu,

the link you've provided is not so bad.

Quote
The festivities are accompanied by a program of events, including the Grand Entry of the Oktoberfest Landlords and Breweries, the Costume and Riflemen's Procession, and a concert involving all the brass bands represented at the "Wiesn".

The Oktoberfest celebrated its 200th Anniversery in 2010, only Wars and cholera epidemics have briefely interrupted the yearly beer celebration.

Well,any excuse to drink a lot of beer works for me... :dazzled:

That's not the point. Andy meant that it's the German Halloween (see post #51) or similar - and that's not true.

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 09, 2014, 02:59:47 AM
When I visited Deutschland, October Fest was pretty popular.

The Oktoberfest in Munich has nothing to do with Christianity or Paganism. The people drinking a lot of beer (in 1 liter pitchers!). A lot of those buddies are drunk and brawls are not seldom. That's the content of the Oktoberfest in Munich, a Bavarian specialty.

Gunther

I only mentioned October Fest because I went to one when I was in Hannover visiting my grandfather.

I worked in Kreis Kranken Haus Hospital for a month.

Really enjoyed it.

I believe it was a cancer hospital.


Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on November 09, 2014, 03:17:17 AM
Andy,

I only mentioned October Fest because I went to one when I was in Hannover visiting my grandfather.

I worked in Kreis Kranken Haus Hospital for a month.

Really enjoyed it.

I believe it was a cancer hospital.

yes, we've a small Oktoberfest in Berlin, too. But that's only a bad copy of the original in Munich. One can visit it, if one prefer Bavarian beer or and Bavarian Weisswurst. Both are not the favorites of the majority of the population.

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 09, 2014, 10:56:44 AM
Andy,

I only mentioned October Fest because I went to one when I was in Hannover visiting my grandfather.

I worked in Kreis Kranken Haus Hospital for a month.

Really enjoyed it.

I believe it was a cancer hospital.

yes, we've a small Oktoberfest in Berlin, too. But that's only a bad copy of the original in Munich. One can visit it, if one prefer Bavarian beer or and Bavarian Weisswurst. Both are not the favorites of the majority of the population.

Gunther

I like white sausage, Brätwurst, and liver sausage.

The good "artery clogging food." :-)

First time I was in Germany, I asked for iced tea in the summer.

Waitress brought me a glass of tea and had a pair of tongs with one ice cube that she put in the tea.

My mother ate some sandwiches that had bacon grease smeared on the bread.

She is 86 and still going strong except for dementia. :-)






Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on November 09, 2014, 12:51:35 PM
Andy,

I like white sausage, Brätwurst, and liver sausage.

Bratwurst and Currywurst are not specific Bavarian and not specific Oktoberfest.

First time I was in Germany, I asked for iced tea in the summer.

Waitress brought me a glass of tea and had a pair of tongs with one ice cube that she put in the tea.

That's an amusing story, indeed. 

She is 86 and still going strong except for dementia. :-)

that's bad news.

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: xanatose on November 10, 2014, 06:26:55 AM
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." - Henry Kissinger.

Legal or not, unconstitutional or not, the political mafias passing as parties can do anything they want as long as they own the courts and the people are too much of cowards to do anything about it.

Government is just another name for the strongest mafia of each country. Nothing more. Once understood, everything governments does makes sense.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 10, 2014, 05:19:04 PM
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." - Henry Kissinger.

Legal or not, unconstitutional or not, the political mafias passing as parties can do anything they want as long as they own the courts and the people are too much of cowards to do anything about it.


If I understand you, are you saying that the voters are responsible for how the courts rule since they elect them either directly or indirectly ?

Cowards may be accurate, but what about "plain lazy" ?

I base that on the % of voter turnout.

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: anunitu on November 11, 2014, 12:59:50 AM
In government,we get out what we put in.

"If a fool can see the fire approaching,and does not move to avoid the flames,then it was truly his fate to burn"
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: xanatose on November 11, 2014, 05:31:40 AM
Cowards may be accurate, but what about "plain lazy" ?
I base that on the % of voter turnout.

It has being proven that a winner takes all system always ends up in two political parties that do not represent what the majority thinks, but what they come of with compromise.

There is an alternative that solves this problem, a weighted system.

For argument sake. Lets say there are three candidates. God, Man and Devil. And most people believe that Man represents them better than God or Devil. However, some people are afraid that the devil will win, so they choose to vote God, although they believe that Man would be a better candidate, they are too afraid of Devil. Similary those afraid of God will vote for the Devil, not because is the best candidate, but because they believe it can win to God.

The result is that Man, although the candidate that the majority believes the best, have no chance of winning.

On a weighted voting:

People that are afraid of the devil will either vote: God=2, Man= 1, Devil=0. Or God=1, Man=2, Devil=0

While people that are afraid of God will either vote: Got=0, Man=1, Devil=2 or God=0, Man=2, Devil=1

Either way, the candidate that most people believe that represents them better Man, has a fighting chance of winning.

I'm sorry to say, but cowards is the correct word. People obey blindly and even attack those who do not do as them.  That takes some negative effort.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: K_F on November 11, 2014, 09:20:34 AM
I'm sorry to say, but cowards is the correct word. People obey blindly and even attack those who do not do as them.  That takes some negative effort.
I'd put it in another way...

The cowards are those who are too scared of what really faces them, and look for excuses not to acknowledge
 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: MichaelW on November 11, 2014, 05:00:49 PM
Cowards may be accurate, but what about "plain lazy" ?
I base that on the % of voter turnout.
Laziness may be the reason that some eligible voters do not vote, but when an intelligent and non-lazy person chooses not to vote, you should assume that they have a valid reason, even if you are unable to see that reason.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Gunther on November 12, 2014, 04:37:39 AM
Michael,

Laziness may be the reason that some eligible voters do not vote, but when an intelligent and non-lazy person chooses not to vote, you should assume that they have a valid reason, even if you are unable to see that reason.

yes.  :t That's called freedom.

Gunther
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Tedd on November 12, 2014, 07:55:53 AM
When your voting choices are limited to "Tweedledee" and "Tweedledum", many people see no point in voting.

Many people believe their elected representatives don't represent them, and so they don't vote; in turn, this means the elected representatives have no interest in representing them and pander to the interests of those that do (and those who provide generous bribes 'donations.')
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on November 12, 2014, 08:24:19 AM
Yes, it seems to be the problem of voting for the Republicrats, the only way to get any action is to grease the arse (whoops I mean palms) of sitting senators with re-election funding and you will get them heart, soul and R_Soul and to make it even more cost effective, they not only sell their own arse but yours as well. Now since the name "Tea Party" has been hijacked by the loonie right of the Republican Party, how about a new Paul Revere's ride done on your own Harley ?
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 12, 2014, 02:46:18 PM
Cowards may be accurate, but what about "plain lazy" ?
I base that on the % of voter turnout.
Laziness may be the reason that some eligible voters do not vote, but when an intelligent and non-lazy person chooses not to vote, you should assume that they have a valid reason, even if you are unable to see that reason.

Why would you assume they have a valid reason ?

Don't you think that not voting is really voting ?

Even if all the candidates are incompetent or even evil, one of them is better than the others.

When people do not vote, they are saying that they:

1. do not care
2. they trust in those who do vote

I think Michael has hit it on the head, they are idiots. :-)

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 20, 2014, 03:43:30 PM
Now regarding your assertion that you can sit in judgement of other people on the basis of your understanding of the Bible, try reading the book.
Quote

    American Standard Version
    The Revelation to Saint John
    Chapter 22
    11    He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still.
    12    Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.

I am having an awesome week.

What about everyone else ?

I am not in judgement of anyone. Jesus will do that.

You are angry because I speak the truth.

Fortunately, this is practiced by only two others.

Most of the calm thinking members have sense to stay quiet, hopefully not out of fear.

But if you admit the truth, then your conscious will bug you about doing something about it.

And you probably won't admit it or make any effort to see if there is truth in it.

Most of your replies have been circular reasoning.
Quote
Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.[1] The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion, and as a consequence the argument fails to persuade. Other ways to express this are that there is no reason to accept the premises unless one already believes the conclusion, or that the premises provide no independent ground or evidence for the conclusion.[2] Begging the question is closely related to circular reasoning, and in modern usage the two generally refer to the same thing.[3]

Where I live, we have freedom of speech.

And most people respect that and allow others to speak what is on their mind.

As long as they don't want to bomb somebody or molest someone.

I look forward to how many will pick and choose out of this message and distort what I have said . :-)

I care for you guys.

Hope you have a great week.


Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on November 20, 2014, 08:18:28 PM
I answered your question in reply number #1 of this topic, the problem is you are a supporter of "old time religion", not a reader of the book (biblios = bible).

> I am not in judgement of anyone. Jesus will do that.

No he won't as a matter of fact but his father will. The son "sitteth at the right hand of God". You should stop uttering heresies and repent of your wicked ways while you still have time.

Quote
Rev 19:4  And the four and twenty elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshipped God that sitteth on the throne, saying, Amen; Hallelujah.

Now over the years you have continued to support American legislation that criminalises other people's personal conduct and in doing so you collectively sit in judgement of other people. To put it in old testament terms, you have become the judge of good and evil. On judgement day you will not be sitting on the throne of judgement, you will be standing in front of it saying how sorry you are that you tried to be like God and unless you repent of your wicked ways, you may get thrown onto the scrap heap (Gehenna).

If you don't approve of adultery, don't do it, if you don't want to be one of those who are described as "soft men or men who lie with men" then stay out of that style of conduct, what you are not authorised to do is be the judge of these people, that is reserved for the day of judgement.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 22, 2014, 05:42:45 PM
I answered your question in reply number #1 of this topiwrongc, the problem is you are a supporter of "old time religion", not a reader of the book (biblios = bible).

> I am not in judgement of anyone. Jesus will do that.

No he won't as a matter of fact but his father will. The son "sitteth at the right hand of God". You should stop uttering heresies and repent of your wicked ways while you still have

You are wrong. You need to read the whole bible and not pick and choose.   

You are missing the context. 

Matthew 25:31-46

Key words are "Son of Man" and "my Father".

You need to understand heresy b4 you use it in a sentence.

It is encouraging that you read the bible.

Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: hutch-- on November 22, 2014, 07:18:18 PM
Unless you repent of your wicked ways, you are headed for the scrapheap (Gehenna). "Old time religion" driven by ignorance is no substitute for knowing what you are talking about and its clear that you don't. As long as you keep trying to justify forcing other people to hold your loonie tune religious views by supporting laws that control people who differ from you, you are a heretic who risks having your name removed from the book of life.

When it comes to context, tell us what the Song Of Solomon" has to do with "the wages of sin is death" ? Why are you continuing to do the devil's work making a laughing stock of your own Christian belief by sprouting heresy ?

If think Texas is hot, wait til you are cast into the "lake of fire". We try to spare you of your wicked ways in the hope that you will repent and follow the path of righteousness instead of trying to be "like" God where you want to be the judge of good and evil. On judgement day it will not be you sitting on the throne of judgement but the Father and if your name is not written in the Book Of Life through the mercy of the son, its the lake of fire for you.

Remember its YOUR topic where you are supporting a non-biblical law to control other people, you may think you are clever enough to bypass the authority of the Bible but on Judgement day you are going to look really DUMB !

Behind me satan !
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Magnum on November 23, 2014, 02:28:01 AM
:-)
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: Farabi on November 23, 2014, 10:39:27 PM
After I quit drinking and using drugs, suddenly I had an overwhelming feeling of hatred, but also joy, like love. But also there is another things like envy, jealous, pride and many more, negative and positive. Now suddenly I can understand what people felt, I had empathy. Its very overwhelming where I cant control it. Im very worry if we are overtaken by our instinct. I dont recomend you to use drugs, but maybe we need to understand ourself better.

I dont know why but it seems there is an external forces that causes us to misunderstand each other. Have you ever experienced when you tried to help somebody, suddenly the people who we helped doing anoying things when we did not tell them if we helped them? If you watch it carefully, that person is not entirely wrong, he was just suddenly act like that without his willingness, its just he suddenly want to do it. It feels like something is guiding us to misunderstand each other. I once saw a person rode a bike while using his cellphone, just right when the person use the cellphone, the other bike which is crossing the street, suddenly attracted to look to the other way. They crash, and I am the only person who aware of it, even many people saw it.

It would be better if we are aware. If you felt suddenly feeling lazy, or youre suddenly distracted and felt its lazy or discomfort to look at the other way, trust me, something bad to you gonna be happen.

Look like a bullshit story eh? But I dont know, I used to see it.
Title: Re: Tenth amendment
Post by: xanatose on November 24, 2014, 09:41:44 AM
yes.  :t That's called freedom.

Freedom: I do not need permission to do the things I want to do. Nor am I morally bound to things I did not agree to.

Liberty: I am given permission to do things. That permission can be taken away at any moment without my consent or even being notified.

Freedom comes from:
I am a sentient being. I own myself. The collective can make suggestion, but at the end of day, is my decision and my consequences.

Liberty comes from:
I am a slave. The collective owns me. The collective gave me permission to do things. But at the end of day is their decision. I have faith that my master will take good care of me. The collective even gave me the liberty to vote.

I prefer freedom to the people and liberty to the government. Not the other way around.