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General => The Colosseum => Topic started by: Bill Cravener on June 29, 2012, 12:59:51 AM

Title: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Bill Cravener on June 29, 2012, 12:59:51 AM
Just wanted to take a moment out my busy day to tell all my friends overseas that something is finally happening to improve the United States current pathetic health care system. :icon14:

 Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/06/Supreme-Court-rules-on-Obama-health-care-plan-718037/1#.T-xvjBee6GM)

11 facts about the Affordable Care Act (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/06/24/11-facts-about-the-affordable-care-act/)
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: hutch-- on June 29, 2012, 01:58:53 AM
i saw the result which is a good one for ordinary Americans but I note the decision was only 5 to 4 so some of the judges appointed during the Bush era probably don't want to see Obama's legislation succeed.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Ryan on June 29, 2012, 02:34:04 AM
As ironic as it is, Chief Justice John Roberts, who was appointed by Bush ruled in favor of the law.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: anunitu on June 29, 2012, 03:00:34 AM
Just the fact that Roberts voted in this way,gives me hope that  SCOTUS is perhaps not overly influenced by politics,and indeed actually more concerned with TRUE rule of Law.   
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: FORTRANS on June 29, 2012, 03:42:33 AM
Hi,

   An interesting twist is the personal mandate was defended
as valid by using a commerce clause of the Constitution.  But
Roberts said that it is a tax, and allowed as such.  And not
with the commerce clause.   That changes the rules needed
to enforce the mandate.  And it gives it the ever-popular
onus of a tax.

Regards,

Steve N.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Ryan on June 29, 2012, 04:36:09 AM
Yeah.  From what I'm reading, since it will be a tax, the constitutionality of the tax will not be evaluated until someone is taxed, which will be 2014.  They're just kicking the can down the road.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Bill Cravener on June 29, 2012, 04:45:57 AM
This calculator from the Kaiser Family Foundation will let you see the subsidies and the caps for different families at different income levels.

http://healthreform.kff.org/Home/KHS/SubsidyCalculator.aspx?source=FS

Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: FORTRANS on June 29, 2012, 07:27:09 AM
Yeah.  From what I'm reading, since it will be a tax, the constitutionality of the tax will not be evaluated until someone is taxed, which will be 2014.  They're just kicking the can down the road.

Hi,

   Amusing thought; given that being a tax is the reason that
it was deemed constitutional.  Not just kicking it down the road,
it's a field goal.

Regards

Steve
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Ryan on June 29, 2012, 08:52:02 AM
True.

Maybe someone is hoping that the way Congress tries to implement the tax will be unconstitutional?
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: xanatose on July 02, 2012, 11:46:57 PM
Lets hope that the Victory is for the people of the United States and not for just a politician that wouldn't care less for its people.

The way the bill its structured it will increase and not decrease the cost of medicine in the USA.  I have seen the events when the same was done in Puerto Rico, destroying the public hospital system while incrementing the load on the private hospitals. At first everything seem fine, until you realize that you still have the same amount of hospitals and that you have just increased the demand.

Offer and demand. You just increased the amount of money available to a particular sector. So the incentive to do better is lost. Instead they will simply increase the prices. You have not lowered the cost of labor nor or products. At the end the only ones that will benefit are the insurance companies, and the politicians being paid for. Eventually there will be death panels that choose when spending money on X person health is worth it or not.

Universal insurance increase the cost for everyone. Public hospitals and free doctor education makes it cheaper. How? You create hospitals, you create universities bound to those hospitals, and you give education paid by working at those hospitals. That would have lowered the cost of everyone since the offer is increased and doctors without debt are on the job.

But hey, its a Victory for Obama. Who cares if this will doom the USA in the long run.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: jj2007 on July 03, 2012, 01:28:23 AM
But hey, its a Victory for Obama. Who cares if this will doom the USA in the long run.

The four countries that I lived in until now all have health care systems that are far more "socialist" (read: Satan's ugly face) than Obama's timid attempt to provide health care for the poor. And they have it since at least WW II.
But hey, this is Europe :biggrin:
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: MichaelW on July 03, 2012, 03:57:51 AM
The problem here is not in providing health care for the poor it’s in mandating that we buy health insurance from private companies. The goal here is to force a large number of healthy people with healthy life styles and a low risk of health problems into the system, so they can be grossly overcharged for their health care, and so subsidize health care for people who choose unhealthy/risky life styles.

Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: jj2007 on July 03, 2012, 04:59:48 AM
Point taken. So it needs to be financed in a different way. Energy taxes, for example? If that is too "religious" in the U.S.: Most EU countries have a value added tax around 20%. I would not recommend higher income taxes because they can too easily be avoided by the truly rich.
Another nice variant is a property and/or land tax, obviously with a tax-free zone that leaves 98% of all Americans untaxed.

My favourites are energy taxes - at least it would make you in the long run less dependent from people like Putin, Ahmadinejad and Chavez.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Greenhorn on July 03, 2012, 06:34:59 AM
I have seen the events when the same was done in Puerto Rico, destroying the public hospital system while incrementing the load on the private hospitals. At first everything seem fine, until you realize that you still have the same amount of hospitals and that you have just increased the demand.
This is happening nowadays here in Germany. The gov is privatizing the hospitals (and not only them).
They say if we have competition between the hospitals the costs will decrease.
But it's not. The costs are increasing, because the hospitals have to make high margins for the owners/share holders. And you can only increase with doing more OPs.
Also they have to save in every way (wages etc.) and so the hygiene get's more worse, because the working slaves are unmotivated and under pressure of decreasing all costs. The chief physicians must act like buisnessmen and not like doctors and a big part of their income is based on bonuses. Some of them who still have a conscience are resigning their job.

I have five damaged spinal disks and I'm glad that have a good doctor and haven't to be operated.
I was six months ill at home and since three weeks I'm doing my rehabilitation in my company, but I can't continue my old profession.
So now I'm doing a desk job in my company.

In the last five years in Germany the OPs at the back/spinal disks have doubled! So guess why...
And, a study came out that points that 85% of all OPs at the back here are unnecessary!

This is only one example for PPP of many in Germany.
Germany is selling the whole silverware which is owned by the Gov respectively by the people.
Only rich men can afford a poor state.
I hope "Mommy" in Berlin will go to hell as soon as possible.
Angie is very dangerous for the democracy, not only in Germany.
But most of the german politicians are it, too. Criminal Gangsters they are even like the Banksters.

For the matter of taxes, if they are used well for the general public, they are not a bad thing.
The scandinavian countries have very high taxes, but they also have a high level of living because of this.

But back to topic: Congratulations to the american people !


Greenhorn
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: MichaelW on July 03, 2012, 02:32:37 PM
"Banksters", this is the first time I have seen that word, and I like it :t
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: bf2 on July 13, 2012, 07:14:39 PM
Since when have socialists worried about finding the money for their grand schemes? It's all other people's tax folks - let's spend it all. Let's also spend the money we don't have and will never have. Then let's print more money. Let's not worry about consequences. I'll get my votes alright.

Then when the country defaults on its debts and goes bankrupt and has a Weimar-style hyperinflation (which it will), I'll come back with a sombre face, and say banal cliches like 'we have to learn from mistakes' and 'we took our eyes off the ball'. That will get me a few more votes.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: hutch-- on July 13, 2012, 08:12:49 PM
Let US history be the teacher, when the great depression hit in 1929 the US President Herbert Hoover was confident the market would correct itself, it didn't. They cut back government spending and heightened the depression, by the time ordinary Americans were on the bread line looking for a cup of soup, Hoover was thrown out and FDR was elected. He survived an assassination attempt in Florida then went on to save the US from the depression. Guess what he did ????

He SPENT his way of out the depression, gave Americans jobs again and reconstructed the US economy so that by WW2 it was the most powerful economy in the world.

The best way to bring the US to its knees like Bush did is to destroy the economy again, cut backs, people starving in the streets, no health cover, living off the charity of Communists and Arabs (Chavez and Dubai) and hand control of the world to China.

Do you speak Mandarin ?
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: bf2 on July 13, 2012, 08:50:16 PM
All depressions and all wars are caused by socialistic economic policies, not small c conservative policies. This has nothing to do with party politics. Republicans today are just as big proponents of big governments, wasteful spending and foreign wars as are the Democrats. They are just as removed from small c conservative fisal policies as Democrats are - there is no difference.

This is true in all Western countries. If you are a small c conservative in the UK, then you must stay well away from the Conservative Party.

Small c conservative fiscal policy is what is essentially known as the Austrian School of Economics, as explained by people like Hayek and von Mises. Funnily enouogh, they used to call their politics 'Liberalism' - which is what it really is, until socialists and communists liked the term too much and hijacked it.

Now let's see what we can learn from history.

The Great Depression was caused by protectionism and tarriff barriers put up by the US - none of which is part of a small c conservative fiscal policy. In retaliation, the erstwhile trading partners of the US put up their own trade barriers and formed new alliances - which soon became polictical alliances, exacerbating the overall climate.

Meanwhile Germany is in deep sh1t because they had decided to pay for the WW1 by issuing bonds (sounds familiar?) and printing money (sounds familiar?) - yet nothing seems to work. People's living standards are falling rapidly, just like the mark against the dollar. In the meantime, people who are holding gold or dollar and not the mark are doing very well (foreign financiers and Jewish people in particular) - causing a lot of resentment in the general population. Ordinary people on the street are selling their furniture to buy bread, and more resentment builds up when the Jewish people holding the gold (hence a lot of buying power) buy them all up. The Jewish people were also blamed for the depression itself because they owned or managed the world's banks (by the way before anyone accuses me of anti-semitism, I am only giving you the history, I am telling you how one thing led to another - nothing else - these are not my opinion. You don't have to believe me - read it up).

So protectionism, a collusion with global banking, reckless borrowing and money printing - what do we get? A world war.

That's what history teaches us.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: bf2 on July 13, 2012, 09:01:53 PM
Another thing - for anyone who thinks more spending is the answer to cure all recession.

That's what Japan has been trying to do for 20 years - pointless building projects, gold-plated social security schemes, a huge buearocracy.

Hasn't done them much good so far.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 13, 2012, 09:27:04 PM
Since when have socialists worried about finding the money for their grand schemes? It's all other people's tax folks - let's spend it all. Let's also spend the money we don't have and will never have. Then let's print more money. Let's not worry about consequences. I'll get my votes alright.

Then when the country defaults on its debts and goes bankrupt and has a Weimar-style hyperinflation (which it will), I'll come back with a sombre face, and say banal cliches like 'we have to learn from mistakes' and 'we took our eyes off the ball'. That will get me a few more votes.

That's nonsense!

The only additional taxation to individuals will be a penalty tax for those who choose not to buy health insurance. Most people (with a brain) who follow politics know that the law will result in more than 30 million additional Americans getting health insurance and by expanding insurance coverage the law will also increase economic activity. All those newly insured folks will demand more medical care than when they were uninsured and while it takes many years to train a family physician or nurse practitioner it doesn't take much time to train the assistants and technicians plus all the related support staff who can fill much of this need. These are precisely the sort of medium skilled jobs our economy here in the US desperately need.

Yes this new health care plan will extend the Medicare tax on the wealthiest Americans of those with incomes above $250,000 per year. And I say what is wrong with those who are benefiting the most from the American system pay their fare share for what this great country has enabled them to achieve?

The "free rider penalty" of $2000 to $3000 (per employee) on medium and large businesses that fail to provide workers with affordable coverage will force those workers to get subsidized insurance via the new insurance exchanges. This penalty will indeed impose a new financial burden on businesses that do not pay their fair share of health insurance costs but the overall impact is likely to be very small. Only 2.6 percent of businesses will pay this assessment and the revenue raised will amount to 1.4 percent of existing spending on health insurance in the U.S. and only 0.1 percent of wages.

Of course the long-term goal of the Affordable Care Act is to reduce spending on health care overall. And the best projections suggest that it will. Although the law will boost spending initially, the effect is likely to be modest.


It is obvious that you know nothing of what you speak and your other two nonsensical posts deserve no rebuttal period! 

Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: bf2 on July 13, 2012, 09:31:20 PM
It is obvious that you know nothing of what you speak and your other two nonsensical posts deserve no rebuttal period!

I know and understand more about the causes of and build up to WW2 than you'll know in the rest of your life.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: hutch-- on July 13, 2012, 11:04:27 PM
 :biggrin:

Where do you get this claptrap from ?

> All depressions and all wars are caused by socialistic economic policies, not small c conservative policies.

ww1 occurred before Communism. existed. Old world Europe empire mobilisation after the assassination in Yugoslavia.

ww2 was triggered by Hitler invading Poland, Hitler was a deviant version of Fascism, he was strongly anti-communist.

The US entered ww2 after Japan attacked Pearl Harbour, Japan was a militarised feudal society, by no means communist.

The Malayan war was started by communist guirillas trying to overthrow the government, they failed.

The Korean war was started by the communist north trying to take over the whole country, result was a stalemate.

The Vietnam was was started by the US trying to prop up a corrupt government, they failed.

Iraq 1 was started by Saddam when he invaded Kuwait, Saddam was no communist.

Yugoslavia breakup was started by Croatian atrocities in Gospic, nothing to do with socialism but much to do with revivalist ww2 style fascism.

Iraq 2 was started by the US with the invasion of Iraq. Work out yourself who won that one, the answer was no-one except perhaps the Chinese strategists who designed asymetrical warfare.

To be blunt there has not been a war in the 20th/21st century that was a result of socialism.

The great depression was started by there not being enough asset in the stock market to cover the scale of speculation that occurred for a year or so before it.

When you refer to "small c conservative policies" you are talking about a private definition. It sounds something like the crap that came out of Ayn Rand.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: bf2 on July 13, 2012, 11:26:51 PM
WW2 was trigered by Hitler invading Poland - everyone knows that. What caused WW2? What was on the build-up? Not Poland.

By the way, did you know that your beloved Soviets also attacked and occupied Poland, at about the same time when Hitler did so? Did you know that Hitler was so anti-communist that he and Stalin had no problem occupying Poland at the same time carving it up nicely like good pals do, and they even had a non-aggression pact, and that things only soured when Hitler stupidly attacked the USSR?
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: bf2 on July 13, 2012, 11:30:57 PM
Anyway, I'll refrain from posting in political threads in future. It only sours the atmosphere. I have made up my mind, just as have you. There is no point in discussing politics.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: bf2 on July 13, 2012, 11:46:13 PM
One last thing (against my best judgement).

When socialist policies just become too much, ordinary people seek refuge in fascism. Fascism rises always as a response to unfettered socialism. It always rises when common people lose faith in governments and national institution, and think that only fascism can save them from complete meltdown and the betrayal of the political class.

What ordinary people don't realise is that fascism is just as much about government control as socialism is, but then it's already too late.

If you want to get rid of fascism, get rid of the cause first.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: oex on July 14, 2012, 12:22:31 AM
Do you speak Mandarin ?

I speak Mandarin, well 一点点  :lol:.... Seriously though while people vote for one side or the other what they dont get is that the system formed with sides because they are required.... Every system, every side has it's pros and cons, when one screws up you choose to *change* to another because it will correct many of the mistakes the other system has made.... Even communism appreciates that there must be change, they change the leadership every 10 years or something....

The point is always to look at the issues and not the bs politics.... Unfortunately you are always forced to pick a side, not vote on the actual individual issues but instead on the sum of all fears
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: hutch-- on July 14, 2012, 01:15:03 AM
 :biggrin:

I wonder where you get these universalisms from ? I was tempted to think it was Alice In Wonderland but it was at least entertaining. Fascisim does not derive from communism because for among many other reasons, communism has never been practiced and those countries that have tried it never got there. The old Russia post 1917 was an authoritarian state and a theoretical egalitarian state but hardly communist. China post 1948 was an extension of traditional Chinese culture driven from the provinces but even after the Cultural Revolution it never succeeded in being communist.

Fascism is a combine of government power and corporate economics bypassing citizens to control a society. The term you would look for in the US was coined by Dwight Eisenhower, "The Military / Industrial Complex".

RE: Socialism, if you have an army paid for by government, you have socialism, if you have a city hall you are a socialist, if you pay your taxes to an internal revenue you are a socialist and in fact unless you live in isolation from the rest of the world, you are a socialist.

The problem is you are trying to create universal statements from the language of the American political spectrum which is extremely narrow in world terms, "liberal" has different meanings in different countries, here in OZ "Liberal" means a political conservative and its opposite is Labor, a distinction that is closer to British politics than American. What most of the western world has is a corporate / government arse kissing competition fueled by corporate funding of political parties who in turn massage society to line the pockets of the same corporations. THEY are the enemy of free western democracies, not the socialists.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 14, 2012, 01:25:16 AM
One last thing (against my best judgement).

bf2,

I am puzzled by your original post as to what it has to do with the screwed up health care system we Americans have here presently. We have to do something because too many people here in what is one of the greatest industrialized countries in the world have no health care. Our health care cost greatly exceeds those of all other industrialized countries and yet for example we have one of the highest newborn death rates, higher than in 40 other industrialized nations. People die everyday here in the US because of lack of health care. Because of the ridiculous health care costs many Americans do not practice preventative care. Something most be done and what President Obama has created is if nothing else a good beginning.

By the way, I must ask, are you an American??


Edit: Damn spell checkers. :biggrin:
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 14, 2012, 01:26:49 AM
:biggrin:

I wonder where you get these universalisms from ? I was tempted to think it was Alice In Wonderland but it was at least entertaining.

 :biggrin:

I agree!
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Bill Cravener on November 03, 2012, 10:54:14 PM
Well the US election is less then four days away and it’s looking almost certain that President Obama will serve a second term as I have predicted all along. This means Obamacare is here to stay and to me that is a very good thing and perhaps the first step towards the US to one day have a true universal health care system.

Here are the latest Electoral College forecasts.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

http://core.talkingpointsmemo.com/election/scoreboard

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/romney-vs-obama-electoral-map
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: mywan on November 03, 2012, 11:09:28 PM
WW2 was trigered by Hitler invading Poland - everyone knows that. What caused WW2? What was on the build-up? Not Poland.

By the way, did you know that your beloved Soviets also attacked and occupied Poland, at about the same time when Hitler did so? Did you know that Hitler was so anti-communist that he and Stalin had no problem occupying Poland at the same time carving it up nicely like good pals do, and they even had a non-aggression pact, and that things only soured when Hitler stupidly attacked the USSR?
Did you know Hitler had non-aggression pacts with lots of nations he later invaded? Why? To avoid the two front war that his overconfidence eventually got him on.

Oh, by the way, when you say: "your 'beloved' Soviets" it is technically an ad hominem wrapped in a strawman.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: K_F on November 04, 2012, 12:01:41 AM
WW2 was trigered by Hitler invading Poland - everyone knows that. What caused WW2? What was on the build-up? Not Poland.
Actually it was the Allies, in victory of WW1 making Germany pay economically damaging reparations for years, driving German poverty and the 30s depression. All contributed to a climate that enabled a radical lunatic like Hitler to come to power... Which is why the allies in victory of WW2 were quick to rebuild their conquests - they realised their WW1 mistakes (more after the next quote)

By the way, did you know that your beloved Soviets also attacked and occupied Poland, at about the same time when Hitler did so? Did you know that Hitler was so anti-communist that he and Stalin had no problem occupying Poland at the same time carving it up nicely like good pals do, and they even had a non-aggression pact, and that things only soured when Hitler stupidly attacked the USSR?
Main Kampf (Hitlers's theories of life) spelt out his ambitions long before he reached a political power base. Had anyone then, bothered to read the book (Stalin, Chamberlain.. etc) they would have known what he was going to do, and could have 'pulled the rug' early enough.
 ;)
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: K_F on November 04, 2012, 12:14:58 AM
Quote
..and that things only soured when Hitler stupidly attacked the USSR?

A bit of an understatement..  :biggrin:

Actually, it was not a stupid move and it could have worked (Lots of IFs though), had he not been delayed by the Greeks for 3 months. Stalin was a great help to Hitler, The Great Purge left the Russians with very few able bodied military leaders, and a ruthless lunatic as it's head. The ordinary russian was more afraid of Stalin that Hitler - they had more experiences of Stalin. So much so that 10s of thousands switched sides and fought for the Wehrmacht. Had Hitler not interfered with military matters so much... it could have been a different story, and you and I might have been talking  German, Italian or Japanese.. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Bill Cravener on November 06, 2012, 10:29:03 PM
I thought China was a funny one. :biggrin:

(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/foriegnobama.jpg)
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: K_F on November 07, 2012, 12:40:23 AM
Maybe China, and a few others know something we  don't  :bgrin:

Plodding through the numbers
600 0000 votes out of say 6 billion people  =>   600 000/6 000 000 000 => 0.0001
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: anunitu on November 16, 2012, 12:44:45 PM
The republicans have finely completely slipped off the cracker,and have entered the twilight zone

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/14/georgia-gop-lawmakers_n_2132263.html

You could never make something like this up.

"President Obama is using a Cold War-era mind-control technique known as "Delphi" to coerce Americans into accepting his plan for a United Nations-run communist dictatorship in which suburbanites will be forcibly relocated to cities. That's according to a four-hour briefing delivered to Republican state senators at the Georgia state Capitol last month."
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: MichaelW on November 16, 2012, 02:38:28 PM
And since Mother Jones says so, it must be true? Come on, this stuff is entertainment, not reality.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: jj2007 on November 16, 2012, 06:46:01 PM
And since Mother Jones says so, it must be true? Come on, this stuff is entertainment, not reality.

Yes, but you must admit that it's very entertaining (http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/11/georgia-senate-gets-52-minute-briefing-united-nations-takeover) and not so far from the real World of teabaggers ;-)
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: mywan on November 16, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
LOL. The "Delphi" technique essentially consist of the tactic I was referring to when I explained how Bill assigning anybody with some semblance of a pro gun stance to the gun lobby. A similar thing happens when a subset of the Christian right tries to exclude other religions. Then when they can't get away with it they exclude themselves to stop the others and labels it a war on Christmas, atheist activism, ACLU agenda, or any number of readily available labels. Basically it involves creating a false sense of public sentiment. If done intentionally its purpose is to discourage people with opposing views from speaking up for fear of being identified with the radicals that a characterization of their views can be lumped with. The left and right do it to each other, Christian right uses it to create a false sense of religiosity in the US, and pollsters slant their data to fit their preferred outcome to facilitate the same effect.

In general the "Delphi" technique has many many different faces and is almost ubiquitous in all perspectives. To a large extent the practitioners are merely operating from their own bias, rather than intentional deceit.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: jj2007 on November 16, 2012, 08:43:27 PM
In general the "Delphi" technique has many many different faces and is almost ubiquitous in all perspectives. To a large extent the practitioners are merely operating from their own bias, rather than intentional deceit.

Delphi is a respected technique in social sciences. Of course, it often gets misused by interested parties, but if the facilitator is really interested to know what "the truth" is, there is no better technique around.

The quality of outcomes can be very high if:
- the facilitator takes care to select a representative panel, i.e. includes experts from both opposed sides
- starts with an almost blank questionnaire ("what are your main thoughts about climate change, in three lines?")
- is very prudent when translating answers to that initial questionnaire into more structured questions (because that is the step where bias can take over)

Again, you can misuse it to confirm your own bias, but if you are really interested to get the most objective synthesis out of the brains of a bunch of distinguished experts, then Delphi is your method of choice.
Title: Re: A Great Victory for President Obama!
Post by: Bill Cravener on November 17, 2012, 02:36:19 AM
. . .consist of the tactic I was referring to when I explained how Bill assigning anybody with some semblance of a pro gun stance to the gun lobby.

That’s simply nonsense. If that were true I’d fit in that class you refer to as the gun lobby and all those I know who are also hunters that agree as I do that guns are too easily obtainable here in America would fit into your misrepresentation of my comments in the “America and our love for guns” thread. How did a thread about President Obama get redirected to the subject of guns anyway? Please stay on thread topic.