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General => The Colosseum => Topic started by: herge on August 12, 2015, 06:02:39 PM

Title: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: herge on August 12, 2015, 06:02:39 PM

 Hello Putin Fans:

 From the BBC the latest Russian Food Jokes.

 http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-33851990 (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-33851990)

 Regards Herge
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: jj2007 on August 12, 2015, 06:29:34 PM
Scroll down a little bit: Next story: The women 'live-tweeting' their periods to campaign against Trump (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-33863958):
Quote
An online defence of periods has been trending, after Donald Trump's comments about "blood coming out of" Megyn Kelly, the host of last week's Republican party leadership debate.

Putin has his dumb moments, but he can't compete with the future U.S. President :P
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 12, 2015, 06:48:41 PM
I am sure the crappy jokes will go down well with those folks in the rural sector of the EU who would like to keep selling their produce to Russia. Driving Russia closer to China comes at the expense of the EU countries who are the patsies for US driven sanctions against the Russians. On the bright side, the economic collapse of the EU will probably benefit the smaller countries who cannot afford to support the high value of the Euro and about the only long term losers are the Brussels brigade with aspirations of world power. China has just devalued the Yuan to further knacker the competition and accelerate the decline of the combined western countries while the middle east slides further under the control of Daesh (The bad guys dressed in black) and with the possible collapse of Syria, Israel is next.

If this sounds like an old copy of MAD magazine, now you know why I support Alfred E. Neuman for president.  :P
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: Farabi on August 12, 2015, 10:02:44 PM
Scroll down a little bit: Next story: The women 'live-tweeting' their periods to campaign against Trump (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-33863958):
Quote
An online defence of periods has been trending, after Donald Trump's comments about "blood coming out of" Megyn Kelly, the host of last week's Republican party leadership debate.

Putin has his dumb moments, but he can't compete with the future U.S. President :P

Oh man, at least we enslave people using euphimism  :greensml:
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: nidud on August 12, 2015, 11:00:46 PM
deleted
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TouEnMasm on August 13, 2015, 03:40:01 AM

*******  They support Ukraine in their struggle for freedom. ********************

Svoboda for freedom ?????????? There is four minister coming from this party in the ukrain government.
They come after they use gun against there own people saying it was other's who does that.
This method is very well known in Europe.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 13, 2015, 09:58:27 AM
I confess to being fascinated at the sheer stupidity of what has happened in the Ukraine, the combined NATO interference before and after the illegal coup is shaping up as one of the most dangerous in the world as the blatant confrontation with Russia is very risky. Anyone with a grasp of 20th century history knows that the Russians suffered massive casualties in WW2 and will never let it happen again, the reason why it has such a powerful nuclear deterrent.

There are hawks in NATO who still think that a first strike against Russia would succeed, even in the face of Russia having superior air power and nuclear TOPOL hardware that cannot be shot down by any current and foreseeable defense system and while such hawks may survive in a nuclear bunker if the chyte hits the fan, no-one is going to win a war of this type. Not having much time for the political class in most countries including the west, I can only wonder who is kissing who'se ass and how much are they getting paid for it.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TouEnMasm on August 13, 2015, 03:53:01 PM
I am curious to know what think the US people  about Svoboda and about the fact
that the US meet them and support them.

One say that US is evil,and here is another proof (Chavez about bush)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TouEnMasm on August 13, 2015, 04:54:10 PM

Sorry but this article is in french and speak about what do the US to support the neo-nazi (svoboda) in Ukraine.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article186703.html
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 14, 2015, 02:53:30 AM
Quote from: ToutEnMasm
I am curious to know what think the US people about Svoboda and about the fact that the US meet them and support them.

- Hello ToutEnMasm, you seem to have a misunderstanding, talking about what the US people "think". They don't think. And if they did, it wouldn't matter: the US people have less control over US policy than you do.

- Anyway my attitude, Ukraine can do whatever it wants, it's none of my business. If they want fascism, great; communism, that's great too; democracy, anti-Semitism, whatever: I don't care. If they all want to paint themselves green and turn in circles: go ahead! It's none of my business, I live thousands of miles away and have my own problems.

- Unfortunately US gov't, being anti-Russian, gets involved. I wish they wouldn't but ...

- Ukraine needs to deal with Russia. Here's a very powerful country (with lots of nukes) right on their border, they need to accommodate and keep Russia happy. The US will leave them in the lurch at any time but Russia will still be there. An Athenian general, during Peloponnesian war, told the Melantians (?) "The strong do what they will, the weak suffer what they must". Ukraine should take those words to heart.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: xanatose on August 14, 2015, 05:49:15 AM
An Athenian general, during Peloponnesian war, told the Melantians (?) "The strong do what they will, the weak suffer what they must". Ukraine should take those words to heart.

Unfortunately true.

The Athenians believed that "Might makes right.". While the Melians believed in logic, reason an morality. A great example that words only work on those who are willing to listen and are acting on good faith.

Although I seriously doubt that the Spartans would have seeing the Melians joining Athens in good eyes. Specially since they had a non aggression treaty. My guess is that no mater the decision it would have ended in the destruction of the Melians . Sometimes the only option you got is to choose the way you die. Which the Melians did. The only way they could possible avoid the destruction was by means of deception.

For the curious The Melian Dialogue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFMeGufebJk
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: Farabi on August 15, 2015, 01:54:45 AM
Quote from: ToutEnMasm
I am curious to know what think the US people about Svoboda and about the fact that the US meet them and support them.

- Hello ToutEnMasm, you seem to have a misunderstanding, talking about what the US people "think". They don't think. And if they did, it wouldn't matter: the US people have less control over US policy than you do.

- Anyway my attitude, Ukraine can do whatever it wants, it's none of my business. If they want fascism, great; communism, that's great too; democracy, anti-Semitism, whatever: I don't care. If they all want to paint themselves green and turn in circles: go ahead! It's none of my business, I live thousands of miles away and have my own problems.

- Unfortunately US gov't, being anti-Russian, gets involved. I wish they wouldn't but ...

- Ukraine needs to deal with Russia. Here's a very powerful country (with lots of nukes) right on their border, they need to accommodate and keep Russia happy. The US will leave them in the lurch at any time but Russia will still be there. An Athenian general, during Peloponnesian war, told the Melantians (?) "The strong do what they will, the weak suffer what they must". Ukraine should take those words to heart.

Hi, there is someone threathened here. And they thougtht they'll be next. Let's say the chinesse. and nothth korea. Or other, who care.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: dedndave on August 15, 2015, 02:27:28 AM
... you seem to have a misunderstanding, talking about what the US people "think"...They don't think.

am i the only one that sees the irony in that statement ?
of course we think - we just don't have a solution to the world-wide problem of greed and thirst for power
in our defense, i don't see anyone from your country coming up with a solution, either
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: Farabi on August 15, 2015, 02:30:34 AM
... you seem to have a misunderstanding, talking about what the US people "think"...They don't think.

am i the only one that sees the irony in that statement ?
of course we think - we just don't have a solution to the world-wide problem of greed and thirst for power
in our defense, i don't see anyone from your country coming up with a solution, either

Dont missunderstand him, he tried to help you.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: dedndave on August 15, 2015, 02:38:00 AM
we don't want his help - lol
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 15, 2015, 04:35:13 AM
Sad to say no country is the exclusive owner of population based stupidity, it does appear to be a universal trait that all countries share. Different countries have different expressions, one of my more respectable favourites for that element in OZ is "yobboes", I have heard the expression "wallies" used by the English and I have no doubt that most countries have an appropriate slang for people who do collectively stupid things.

The problem with referring to sections of a society as "sheep" and similar is the assumption of elitism by the sayer when by any objective standard they are just bleating like the rest of the sheep.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 15, 2015, 04:35:57 AM
@dedndave,

There's a deliberate ambiguity in the statement about "American people think", viz., it may mean they think as individuals, or as a body or group. As individuals of course we do in fact "think", but not as a body, the "American public". "Public opinion" is defined by a tiny cadre of rich New Yorkers, plus a few others (not all US citizens, either) - somewhere between 30 to 3000 people (depending how you look at it) define "our" opinion, determine foreign policy and the results of elections, etc. It's in that sense my statement applies: the people don't think as a group, their thinking is done for them by a handful of people; they're told what to think.

Perhaps it's not reasonable, but I expect the statement to be taken in that way; since obviously it's ridiculous to say all Americans, as individuals, don't think. After all you and I are US citizens and we both think, right? So does Kelsey down at the corner convenience store; even politicians (and they don't get any more non-thinking than that!) think as individuals. Since it's stupid for me to state that I (as an American) don't think (!) I assume you'll realize I mean the other interpretation.

[edit] @hutch, just read your post. As u see I'm not saying "All Americans except me and a few select others are sheep"; rather I'm saying all of us, collectively (me included), don't "think" effectively about political issues. Rather, a tiny handful of the rich define our opinion, foreign policy etc. The least aware of Americans - Kelsey for instance - know that perfectly well. I hope you see the difference.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TouEnMasm on August 15, 2015, 05:42:51 PM

To avoid scholar study i will give a sample of "what you think".
Obama trying to promote a law banning the sale of weapons to dangerous individuals.
What you thing is that is good,Institute Survey had show it
What you do is another thing,and the law isn't pass.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 15, 2015, 06:31:36 PM
> talking about what the US people "think"...They don't think.

This just sounds like elitist bullsh*t to me.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: daydreamer on August 15, 2015, 08:55:20 PM
so when are you gonna make "Tintin in russia" Herge? :P
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: herge on August 15, 2015, 09:24:12 PM
 Hi daydreamer2:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_in_the_Land_of_the_Soviets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_in_the_Land_of_the_Soviets)
 www.tintinmilou.free.fr/english.htm (http://www.tintinmilou.free.fr/english.htm) Not the official Tintin site but it is very good site none the less.

 Not a very good story but if was the first of 23 complete Tintin and Snowy
 stories, or cartoons. Herge later said he did not like it. Not converted to    color
 and only published in English after Herge's death. The other 22 books are
 great.

 Regards herge
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 15, 2015, 11:41:49 PM
Quote from: ToutEnMasm
What you thing is that is good,Institute Survey had show it
What you do is another thing,and the law isn't pass.

- ignoring many details - that's what I'm saying: American's thoughts have no effect on gov't actions, it's as though they don't exist

Quote from: hutch
This just sounds like elitist bullsh*t to me.

- deal with it
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TouEnMasm on August 16, 2015, 01:23:48 AM
[quot]
- ignoring many details
[/quot]
Seem you are just ignoring yourself of what is said of the US outside.
In Europe,we know lobbies (same word) and information is complete on the subject.

Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 16, 2015, 01:26:10 AM
>> This just sounds like elitist bullsh*t to me.

> - deal with it

I did.  :P
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 16, 2015, 03:41:54 AM
Seem you are just ignoring yourself of what is said of the US outside.

- As it happens I lived overseas almost half my life. In the old days everyone said good things about US; but for last 40 years or so, mostly bad and getting worse. Is that what you mean? I don't ignore it particularly, but there's nothing I can do about it.

- Europeans can't imagine how powerful lobbies (etc) are here. Your Gini index is about 34, here it's at least 60 or more. That means that half the money is in the hands of a few thousand people: that means they own the country. One mega-billionaire could pay the entire lifetime salaries of the President, the Congress, Supreme Court, and heads of major agencies (IRS, CIA etc) - including pensions - and not even notice it! Democracy is a joke in these circumstances.

- Putin is right: you must rein in the oligarchs or your country will no longer be "yours".

- I'll be happy to tell you anything you want to know, from my perspective, but if you're looking for optimistic, cheerful news you must look elsewhere.

- Maybe I'll feel better after some coffee ...

Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TWell on August 16, 2015, 05:34:21 PM
- Putin is right: you must rein in the oligarchs or your country will no longer be "yours".
He knows that, wealthy man.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: herge on August 16, 2015, 07:21:06 PM

 Hello:

 From Google Putin Jokes they even have categories oh my!

 http://www.sickipedia.org/celebrities/vladimir-putin (http://www.sickipedia.org/celebrities/vladimir-putin)

 Regards herge
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 16, 2015, 09:27:03 PM
These are as poor as your first list.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: daydreamer on August 16, 2015, 11:24:39 PM

To avoid scholar study i will give a sample of "what you think".
Obama trying to promote a law banning the sale of weapons to dangerous individuals.
they need that law here too, a politican suggest that changing laws so handgrenades Count as weapon,not explosives, because having a weapon gives you harder punishment than a handgrenade
and lately criminals throw handgrenades Malmö city not one or two times but often
scary, because earlier I lived in just that city part, they throw grenades in

Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 17, 2015, 02:28:16 AM
Quote from: hutch
These are as poor as your first list.

- thanks for the warning! Maybe something gets lost in translation, but those are some poor jokes alright

Quote from: ToutEnMasm
Obama trying to promote a law banning the sale of weapons to dangerous individuals.

- the problem is, the people determining who's dangerous (the "justice" dep't) are themselves known, dangerous crooks. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: xanatose on August 17, 2015, 10:28:24 AM

To avoid scholar study i will give a sample of "what you think".
Obama trying to promote a law banning the sale of weapons to dangerous individuals.

Does that mean that both the police and the Federal agencies are going to disarm themselves?

Problem with law disarming the people. Is that neither government sponsored criminals, nor private criminals are going to disarm themselves (law or no law). So that leaves only the potential victims of either side to disarm themselves.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: jj2007 on August 17, 2015, 10:59:50 AM
Does that mean that both the police and the Federal agencies are going to disarm themselves?

Aahhh... back to the Golden Age, when The Law was exercised by the man with the fastest colt... :eusa_dance:
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: xanatose on August 17, 2015, 11:28:21 AM
Does that mean that both the police and the Federal agencies are going to disarm themselves?
Aahhh... back to the Golden Age, when The Law was exercised by the man with the fastest colt... :eusa_dance:

You know what they said.

God created man. Sam Colt made them all equal  :badgrin:

Look at example in Australia on what happen when you badly disarm the population. Sure you got less guns. But now the strong prey in the weak, specially the elderly

Then again, experts agree. Gun control works.

Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TWell on August 17, 2015, 01:10:44 PM
Deleted
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 17, 2015, 02:02:30 PM
How short the memory of so many people are, who remembers the crappy jokes about the "Hard Luck Cafe Baghdad" jokes and similar while the coalition of stupidity was wanking off about Shock & Awe. Seems everyone stopped laughing when the body bags started to turn up at home but then most western media was not allowed to show ordinary people the price of stupidity. How many young Americans were seriously wounded and when they came home after serving their country were treated like CHYTE ?

Crappy jokes about Saddam, the Taliban, Slobodan Milosevic and the like are for donkeys who have no grasp of what is going on. Vladimir Putin may not be on the list as "Mr Nice Guy" but he is no fool. Being fed bullsh*t by some sections of the western media is simply being treated as a fool for not understanding what is going on.

Country Joe & The Fish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dATyZBEeDJ4

"Be the first one on the block to have your boy come home in a box."

xanatose, like it.  :t
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 17, 2015, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: hutch
[etc]...Being fed bullsh*t by some sections of the western media is simply being treated as a fool for not understanding what is going on... [etc.]

- correct! Congrats :t, for realizing these obvious facts
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TouEnMasm on August 17, 2015, 07:07:04 PM
xanatose must have interests in gun factories.
If it is not,there is just to see the number of murder by gun and by state:
               First is the US
              Following after are the countries who limit the number of gun.
              For my country,france,you can divide this number By 50,and we are not the best

Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 17, 2015, 07:33:46 PM
> First is the US

This is in fact not true, this comparison keeps being made by cherry picking the comparison countries. Try Brasil, Guatemala and a host of other central and south American countries. Some parts of Africa, the middle east etc etc .... The US is in the low percentage in comparison. Murder rates do not change in disarmed countries, only the means change.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TouEnMasm on August 17, 2015, 08:35:42 PM
Quote
The US is in the low percentage in comparison. Murder rates do not change in disarmed countries, only the means change.
The ONU statistic on murder answer this:
US 4,2 for 100000
France metropole 1 for 100000
deutsh 0,8
English 1,2
Italia   0,9
and so on ...

Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: nidud on August 17, 2015, 10:17:11 PM
deleted
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 18, 2015, 01:36:06 AM
The numbers say it all. Source is BBC. US looks bad if you cherry pick the comparison countries but on a world level it ranks at number 26th with 3.2 deaths per 100000 versus 77 per 100000 in Honduras. Note also that Switzerland with a very high gun ownership has 0.8 deaths per 100000.

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/65077000/gif/_65077559_us_gun_compared_624.gif)

Homicide rate per country not specifying method of homicide. Source is "data360.org"

(http://www.data360.org/temp/dsg699_990_600.jpg)
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: jj2007 on August 18, 2015, 02:09:03 AM
The numbers say it all. Source is BBC. US looks bad if you cherry pick the comparison countries but on a world level it ranks at number 26th with 3.2 deaths per 100000 versus 77 per 100000 in Honduras. Note also that Switzerland with a very high gun ownership has 0.8 deaths per 100000.

Your graph says "Listed in Human Development Index order", but that must be wrong or very old data. Recent HDI data look as below (from the UN (http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/hdr14_statisticaltables.xls)), and I wonder with which trick they lifted the U.S. so high up - for life expectancy, the U.S. are at rank 34 or so.

Re "US looks bad if you cherry pick the comparison countries": That's an interesting argument 8) Your graph "cherry picks" them by highest values in the Human Development Index. Indeed, the U.S. look much, much better if you pick the countries with the lowest HDI values, but is that really what you want?

Re Switzerland: Most of these guns are army rifles safely stored (by law) in a closed cupboard. The Swiss don't run around with handguns, although their gun murder rate is indeed high for European standards.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: xanatose on August 18, 2015, 02:15:35 AM
xanatose must have interests in gun factories.

Then your perception is wrong.

Remember how Einstein is quoted saying that "Insanity is when you try the same  thing over and over expecting a different result."?

Well history has shown that when people give too much power to their governments, that power is invariable abused. And that disarming the population allows such governments to impose more and more tyrannical  regimes. They also selectively start to murder the opposition. Some even selectively murder millions.

So tell me, how it is sane to give all this trust to a single entity managed by a small group. But is insane to give the same trust on the people?
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: jj2007 on August 18, 2015, 02:29:15 AM
Well history has shown that when people give too much power to their governments, that power is invariable abused. And that disarming the population allows such governments to impose more and more tyrannical  regimes. They also selectively start to murder the opposition. Some even selectively murder millions.

Interesting that you link the Third Reich to gun politics - that must be a relatively new strand of fascism research. Can you post any links to publications?

All other cases quoted refer to Third World countries. Where do you want to categorise the U.S.?

P.S.: More on Switzerland: Storage of military-issued ammunition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Storage_of_military-issued_ammunition)

I know it is tempting to quote Switzerland as an example that gun ownership and murder rates are not so strongly linked. Yes indeed, but Obama would have to introduce Swiss rules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Carrying_guns). Have fun :greensml:
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 18, 2015, 04:11:04 AM
Well history has shown that when people give too much power to their governments, that power is invariable abused. And that disarming the population allows such governments to impose more and more tyrannical  regimes. They also selectively start to murder the opposition. Some even selectively murder millions.

Interesting that you link the Third Reich to gun politics - that must be a relatively new strand of fascism research. Can you post any links to publications?

- Interesting that you link gov't murder to the Third Reich! Who needs a memory when you have media? Only problem, if media doesn't mention a fact for a few months, it ceases to exist.

- You can almost get away with this "revised history", but not quite. After all, Armenians are used to it: nobody remembers 1.5 million of them. Cambodians - well, only Cambodians care about Cambodians, right? Africans - sometimes it seems even Africans don't care about Africans! In 1994, when Rwanda was briefly in the public eye, ... but hey, it hasn't been media-mentioned since, so it doesn't exist, right? G-d only knows, or cares, how many people were murdered by their gov'ts in such out-of-the-way places. The Chinese haven't slaughtered each other in quite a while, altho once they were the champs ... India / Pakistan partition ... etc, etc

- But there is a problem with your "revised history": Russians! We have a few of them on this board and surely they remember the Kulaks ... altho come to think of it Kulaks were just Ukrainians, and who (except of course Ukrainians) cares about Ukrainians? But, I think if you look into it you'll find Stalin got millions of Russians too.

- So, bottom line, when you're dealing with people who use memory instead of media, don't assume massacre = Third Reich! A huge problem occurs when everyone thinks only Hitler was evil: politicians soon learn to shave off their little brush mustaches, then everyone figures they must be angels.

Quote from: jj2007
All other cases quoted refer to Third World countries. Where do you want to categorise the U.S.?

- U.S. is rather precisely in the middle of such statistics. It's a country of immigrants, and if you break down the stats, it's really amazing how well they track their ancestor's country of origin! So, since about half are from developed world, half from third world, our stats fall between the two.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: jj2007 on August 18, 2015, 04:32:22 AM
Interesting that you link the Third Reich to gun politics - that must be a relatively new strand of fascism research. Can you post any links to publications?

- Interesting that you link gov't murder to the Third Reich!

I was more interested in that brand new hypothesis "Germans didn't carry enough colts around, therefore Hitler could take over and murder Millions" 8)

Look at this photo: Each of these raised arms seems to cry "gimme a colt, so that I can kill Hitler!"
(http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Nurnberg/Nurnberg27.jpg)
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 18, 2015, 01:04:58 PM
I laugh at the variations of nationalism involved, accounting for the historical variations is a complex area. Europe with a history of tribal warfare going back some thousands of years that still seems to be in play in the Ukraine. Before that smashing old Yugoslavia, civil war in Greece, WW2, Spanish civil war etc etc etc .... China is little better with a multi-thousand year history of warfare, the most recent being the Cultural revolution, before that the Communist revolution, WW2, Japanese invasion and occupation, the era of Sun Yat Sen, Boxer rebellion, a sequence of dynasties that displaced the one before it, etc etc etc ....

The comparison being made here is between individual gun ownership ALA the wild west versus state controlled gun ownership, both are nasty actions killing people for whatever reason and it is a difference of system, not result. Wars in a country (civil wars) are among the ugliest form of warfare, recent Yugoslavia, Spanish civil war, US civil war, historical European religious wars during the reformation and of course 3 thousand years of warfare in China all leave a mark in that society.

In China its national unity, in the US its freedom, Russia is still getting over the Teutonic knights occupation, Germany has assumptions of unifying all Germanic peoples and the list goes on and on. In Europe one may say "Thank God for the sensibility of the Swiss", legend has it that they absorbed the Knights Templars when the order was dissolved and they have tended to stay out of the general European tribal warfare ever since.

This range of variation across many different cultures is why the comparisons of gun ownership are often trivial, in the wild west, if you did not own and know how to use a gun, you did not last long. Now with some humour I contrast the land of OZ, for a young country (apart from the massacre of indigenous people) OZ has been politically stable since it was first settled in 1788. A bunch of pissed miners tried to start a fight at the Eureka Stockade but it was put down very quickly. Darwin was heavily bombed in WW2 but OZ has never had internal warfare and is historically a monoculture made of many different people of different origins.

We have a history of gun ownership but generally not for personal protection. handguns have been strictly controlled since the 1920s but it was not until the 1970s that rifle ownership started to be controlled, primarily for political reasons. There has been an ugly side effect though, since gun ownership was banned, we have seen a rise in police killing people as they are close to the only people with guns in society. Now elderly people risk being bashed in the streets because there is no-one to stop them, apart from police and the army, its mainly drug dealers and terrorists that have guns and instead of the historical rifle ownership, its often Uzzis and rapid fire rifles.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 18, 2015, 01:47:09 PM
in the US its freedom money

- don't fall for propaganda

... the land of OZ, for a young country (apart from the massacre of indigenous people) OZ has been politically stable ...

- The reason is partly because of that massacre: OZ had an entire continent for its own use, so not much need for conflict. Plus the rest of the world has ignored it, it's so far away. Finally, it's homogeneous. ("historically a monoculture made of many different people of different origins" - I hope that's a joke?) Very similar to Canada except Canada's not wanted by others because it's so cold. But the world is shrinking and OZ will have same problems as everyone else. For instance China is going to want it pretty soon: if you're thinking you'll sic the crocodiles on them I can promise you it won't work. Meanwhile toxic media is corrupting the people. Your isolation is ending: good luck

Quote from: jj2007
I was more interested in that brand new hypothesis "Germans didn't carry enough colts around, therefore Hitler could take over and murder Millions"

- I'm so media-ignorant I honestly don't know if that's a joke! Certainly believable that such an hypothesis would be put forward; but I doubt it's true. That picture does NOT show a bunch of people who want to shoot Hitler, rather, a bunch of people who love him. He was very, very popular for a decade or so. Of course we all know the reason: Germans were crazy, stupid idiots. His enemies, who (as victors) write the history, have been kind enough to tell us so (again and again), carefully squashing any disgusting lies to the contrary - so we all know the truth now. Sure is comforting, unless, I suppose, you're German - you must worry you'll go stupidly insane again, for absolutely no reason ...
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 18, 2015, 01:55:32 PM
There is another reason why Hitler was so popular during the 1930s, the conditions of reparation after ww1 were appalling and reduced Germany to poverty, add to this the Wall Street crash of 1929 when American investors ripped their money out of Germany and people were starving in the streets. While he was never Mr Nice Guy, Hitler dragged Germany out of starvation and had the country up and going by 1936, years before most other countries climbed out of the great depression. The wheels fell off with the attacks on the Jewish population and the rest is history.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 18, 2015, 03:37:55 PM
Quote from: hutch
... the rest is history

- Sorry, I'm sticking with the crazy insane theory! Considering Germans I've known, it's not all that hard to believe.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: Farabi on August 18, 2015, 11:05:22 PM
Kinda worry about some part of this conversation, I think it would be best to first admit our mistake or in behalf of our people, or anything, that are associated with us first before we judge the other. At least, we all know that you're at neutral position and try to solve this, even though we wont. Not all people was bad, and not all people was good, even on north korea there could be still be good man. I think the point of all problem was because of our lack of understand about what is the goal. I've been sober for 5 years, even though its depressing I think I can see why I should stay sober, I wonder if I was once ever insulting people, if I should, I wont do it here.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 19, 2015, 12:42:42 AM
you're right farabi, not a good idea to assume people will get the joke, especially on the net

Let me point out that all nationalities seem equally "insane" (or not) to me, none more so than the other ...

BTW, I'm extremely tired of "political correctness"
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 19, 2015, 01:30:38 AM
> - Sorry, I'm sticking with the crazy insane theory! Considering Germans I've known, it's not all that hard to believe.

You have lived in America for too long.  :P
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: xanatose on August 19, 2015, 01:48:12 AM
you're right farabi, not a good idea to assume people will get the joke, especially on the net

Let me point out that all nationalities seem equally "insane" (or not) to me, none more so than the other ...

BTW, I'm extremely tired of "political correctness"

The Milgram experiment showed that 9 out of 10 people will  act like useful idiots an obey an order of an authority figure to harm someone else. So as the Mad Hatter would say, we are all mad here.

As for NAZI Germany. If the same conditions happened in America, the result would be around the same. Just look at the Obama crew, they where chanting Obama, Obama, until someone else pointed them out they they where a cult.

Hitler was not as evil as the winning side painted him but, as with most "leaders" he was evil. But he did serve its purpose. Had Germany not turned NAZI, it would have turn communist. Had Hitler not existed,  Russia and Germany would more than likely joined forced under the command of Stalin. So I guess most Europeans would be speaking Russian.

As for political correctness. It is just a tool made by liars and hypocrites in order to prevent someone else calling their lies and hypocrisies.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 19, 2015, 02:29:35 AM
As for political correctness. It is just a tool made by liars and hypocrites in order to prevent someone else calling their lies and hypocrisies.

- There may be more truth to that than you realize ... but take out that word "just". It's a word to avoid, because it tends to make things sound small and harmless, easily dealt with; when in fact they're not. The PC tool is very effective. Makes you feel you're wearing a straitjacket and a muzzle, locked in a padded cell. The room is warm and comfortable, the food's alright, but the only people you ever see are guards

- maybe the simile is too colorful, but u get the idea
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: xanatose on August 19, 2015, 04:45:15 AM
-There may be more truth to that than you realize ... but take out that word "just". It's a word to avoid, because it tends to make things sound small and harmless, easily dealt with;

True. I still need to get rid of most of the parts of my indoctrination. That is one example.

And another one is when I find myself using a different word when government is doing the deed, than when a private individual does the deed. A non indoctrinated individual would use the same word on both instances. As non using the same word makes the action of X seem different from the action of Y.

I wonder if I can sign the check to the IRS as for payment of yearly extortion fees. I guess they will not care, as long as the extortion is paid in full and on time. But have not yet had the courage to do so.  :lol:
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: TouEnMasm on August 19, 2015, 05:49:07 PM
All this words seems to have only one goal:
Quote
drown the fish
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: daydreamer on August 19, 2015, 09:41:24 PM
Look at this photo: Each of these raised arms seems to cry "gimme a colt, so that I can kill Hitler!"
 :lol: :lol: :lol:
send that to colt as suggestion for gun commercials
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: dedndave on August 20, 2015, 01:40:48 AM
a crowd of "hand-picked" hitler youth, no doubt
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 20, 2015, 02:10:32 AM
Quote from: ToutEnMasm
drown the fish

Quote from: Evelyne Holingue
Noyer le poisson ...: Creating confusion to avoid facing a problem or having a frank discussion about a delicate topic. Noyer (To Drown) is in fact one of the French verbs that’s used when too many details are provided to describe a situation, often when people are embarrassed to talk about this specific situation or need to hide an element they don’t want to share.

- c'est vrai
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: jj2007 on August 20, 2015, 07:35:41 AM
... disarming the population allows such governments to impose more and more tyrannical  regimes. They also selectively start to murder the opposition. Some even selectively murder millions.

Still no links to publications supporting the new scientific theory that Hitler would not have murdered Millions if the Germans had had enough guns in their hands...? The NRA surely has some "scientists" working for them, what are they publishing with respect to this theory?

(http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Nurnberg/Nurnberg27.jpg)
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 20, 2015, 01:31:24 PM
Well I hate to type into the search engine "NRA Hitler guns" - what will the NSA think? But curiosity got the better of me. Turns out, jj, you're in the ballpark.

NRA does in fact say - or maybe just imply, I didn't do a lot of reading - that H. used gun control to keep Germans subjectified. However more informed opinion disagrees with this. Real historians agree there was strict gun control in the Weimar republic, prior to H's rise. National Socialist party was half the reason for these laws, the other half being Communists - authorities wanted to disarm them. Later H relaxed those laws and by 1938 there was not much gun control. I can't tell if that's what you expected - it semi-agrees with your posts.

I remember (as I said, I don't particularly want to look this up, with NSA watching) that H's "Brown-Shirts" did not have guns after 1923 (the Beer Hall Putsch), because they were illegal. You have to realize he was a legitimate candidate for office and couldn't blatantly break the law, altho he did break laws and used a lot of "muscle" against his opponents. The communists took a couple shots at him (surreptitiously), in Beer Hall rallies and as he left the building; the B.S's countered with clubs and such, he was never hurt. So, actually, gun control did not prevent guns being used against him.

And now, since I've done this research to answer your question, perhaps you'll answer one for me:

"Who Cares"?
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: jj2007 on August 20, 2015, 05:11:01 PM
"Who Cares"?

Maybe the poster who launched this new theory?
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 20, 2015, 08:28:33 PM
I think the missing component here is what a Colt revolver was reputed to have been called, "The Great Equaliser" and while the Jewish communities around the occupied parts of Europe did in fact contribute to the resistance where they could, sad to say most did not have a Colt Revolver in hand when the Gestapo came to the door to send them off to the ovens. Now I doubt it would have changed the result by much but it sure would have spread the misery around.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 21, 2015, 02:16:45 AM
"Who Cares"?

Maybe the poster who launched this new theory?

- that makes sense. I missed that post entirely, thought you had come up with it, sorry. Now the mystery is why he/she cares, but ... who cares?

[edit] @hutch, it wouldn't have changed the result but it's worth it to take a few of the b****rds with you. However these days mere guns hardly make a difference against swat teams, helicopters, predators, the whole 9 yards. If David Koresh had shot back, what difference would it make? And there was some guy in a mountain cabin in US - forget his name - he had guns, so a long-range sniper took out his wife. They would have used a cruise missile if they had to - what good is a shotgun? The Freedom Fighters in the Middle East, with AK's and home-made bombs, are extremely outclassed by a modern army. Still an AK is better than nothing.

People who think guns are for burglars are missing the point. Guns are for resisting gov'ts - either your own or foreign aggressors. These days, we ought to have bazookas and such. At least it makes the b****rds think twice before knocking on your door ...
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: Donkey on August 21, 2015, 03:27:04 AM
I always loved the argument that "if only the Jews were armed", well the armies of most of Europe were very well armed and had mechanized infantry and air forces to boot and they did very well didn't they ::). The fact is that Jews made up less than 1% of the German population, even armed they would have provided little resistance. In the Warsaw Ghetto uprising they only managed to kill 20 German soldiers after a month of hostilities, 13,000 Jews died and another 50,000 were sent to concentration camps, so much for the idea that resisting had any meaningful effect. The argument that arming the Jews would have changed the outcome is proved false by history, though it seems many in the gun lobby, Wayne LaPierre (head of the NRA) is the worst of them, like to rewrite history.

It cheapens the ordeal and the horror of the holocaust and those who struggled against impossible odds to play these "what if" games.

NOTE: This topic belongs in The Colosseum and will be split and moved shortly. Just deciding where the split should be

Screw it, just moved the whole thing, the politics started too early for a meaningful split
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 21, 2015, 10:04:35 AM
I think you are picking the wrong end of the events, by the time of the Warsaw ghetto the Jewish community had already been rounded up and confined to the ghetto so they were easy pickings for artillery and air attack. It would have mattered in 1933 and slightly later with events like the "Night of broken glass". None the less the escapes from Treblinka made the point that members of the Jewish community who could fight did fight as many of those who survived the escape fought with the resistance after the escape.

Now in particular in the Baltic states where the rounding up of the Jewish community was done by locals in a very ugly and spiteful manner, a Mauser or a Luger in the hands of the victims would have shared the misery around and made the task a lot less popular. Again it would not have changed much but it sure would have upped the risks for the cowards who did the dirty work.

The notion of the "great equaliser" came from the old wild west where the little guy could defend himself from the big guy with a Colt revolver. To this extent it does level the playing field.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: jj2007 on August 21, 2015, 11:31:36 AM
It would have mattered in 1933 and slightly later with events like the "Night of broken glass". None the less the escapes from Treblinka made the point that members of the Jewish community who could fight did fight as many of those who survived the escape fought with the resistance after the escape.

Since we've now entered the "let's speculate and rewrite history" stage: In an atmosphere of hatred against the Jews, who were obliged to wear the yellow badge, what would have happened if Germans had had the right to arm themselves at will? "Sorry, I had to shoot this guy, he stared at my daughter" - "Well done, citizen!". Colts would have sped up the whole process, and all gun-carrying non-Jewish Germans would have become killers. Plus, any armed resistance from the part of the Jews would have given the Nazis an argument to use the artillery against them. Hitler was an a**hole, but without active support from the population he would just have been a mediocre painter.

But of course, it is understandable that U.S. citizens keep up the idea that, in case there was an evil government, they could overthrow it with colts. It is absurdly naive to believe that, but the feeling "I could shoot back if I really wanted" may ease the sufferance of knowing to be slaves of an invisible and untouchable mafia whose early manifestations were called MIC by Dwight D. Eisenhower (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY). I will believe in this NRA bullshit when I see hords of armed Americans invade Wall Street, and not a second earlier.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 21, 2015, 04:50:50 PM
Quote from: jj2007
the feeling "I could shoot back if I really wanted" may ease the sufferance of knowing to be slaves of an invisible and untouchable mafia whose early manifestations were called MIC by Dwight D. Eisenhower.

- that's right, and why not ease that suffering a little? You have plenty of sympathy for people 70 years dead, but none for those oppressed today. If "happiness is a warm gun" why not allow us at least that, useless though it is?

Quote from: jj2007
I will believe in this NRA bullshit when I see hordes of armed Americans invade Wall Street, and not a second earlier.

- Ain't gonna happen. Anyway the scum no longer hangs around Wall Street, they're in gated compounds with armed guards, in Connecticut, Long Island, overseas - utterly untouchable. Guns are a joke against them
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: Farabi on August 22, 2015, 07:48:39 PM
You know, life is kinda funny. People can choose between bad or worse, or bad or good, but yet we choose always the worst. Once I quoted a good "Stick and Carot " verse from the quran about restraining anger, I forget the context was at war, no wonder I was so haste in pasting it. If there is no problem in people there must be problem on us. Life is tragedy, but also comedy. I wonder if said holocaust was wrong, and then we talk about phalestine, not just doesn't change anything but the jews will hopelesly start blaming theirself.

There is popular saying here: If life was easy, there would be no paradise, at best, you won a toaster. :lol:
Title: 2 U.S. Marines shoot gunman on Paris-bound train
Post by: jj2007 on August 22, 2015, 08:06:22 PM
Breaking news (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/08/21/france-high-speed-train-shooting/32125467/):
Quote
A young Moroccan armed with a Kalashnikov and a knife opened fire in a high-speed train traveling from Amsterdam to Paris Friday, injuring three people -- including two American Marines who subdued him, according to French media reports.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 23, 2015, 02:21:56 AM
Quote from: farabi
There is popular saying here: If life was easy, there would be no paradise, at best, you won a toaster.

- I like that popular saying! - even tho it doesn't make a whole lot of sense

@jj,

Our world views are at variance. If a young Moroccan tries to shoot Parisians, u say "let's ban guns!". Whereas I wonder, how many of the Moroccan's fellow Muslims were killed today by drones and such, with the (at least, tacit) support of those same Parisians? Why do Parisians (and Romans, etc) join the "coalition" for these endless wars on Muslims? And - as long as they do so - why are they surprised when the victims fight back?

- These are not just rhetorical questions, I'm really puzzled by the situation. At least - to be consistent - shouldn't we ban drones also?
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: Donkey on August 23, 2015, 02:40:07 AM
Quote from: farabi
There is popular saying here: If life was easy, there would be no paradise, at best, you won a toaster.

- I like that popular saying! - even tho it doesn't make a whole lot of sense

@jj,

Our world views are at variance. If a young Moroccan tries to shoot Parisians, u say "let's ban guns!". Whereas I wonder, how many of the Moroccan's fellow Muslims were killed today by drones and such, with the (at least, tacit) support of those same Parisians? Why do Parisians (and Romans, etc) join the "coalition" for these endless wars on Muslims? And - as long as they do so - why are they surprised when the victims fight back?

- These are not just rhetorical questions, I'm really puzzled by the situation. At least - to be consistent - shouldn't we ban drones also?

That's quite a load of b*llsh&t, the drone attacks are not against Muslims, they are against active terrorists, it is unfortunate that civilians are killed and injured as a result but that is a byproduct of war. Those same terrorists are killing more Muslims every week guised as ISIL than all of the drone strikes in history. Why aren't the terrorists out killing members of ISIL ? The reason is they have co-opted religion as a way to draft volunteers in order to advance their own agenda whether that is good or bad for Muslims is not a factor in their planning. When there is an attack on a train in France nobody says it's the Muslim world attacking Christians and we should strike back, so why are you so quick to spout that nonsense that anti-terrorism efforts are inherently anti-Muslim ?
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: jj2007 on August 23, 2015, 05:10:21 AM
Our world views are at variance. If a young Moroccan tries to shoot Parisians, u say "let's ban guns!". Whereas I wonder, how many of the Moroccan's fellow Muslims were killed today by drones and such, with the (at least, tacit) support of those same Parisians? Why do Parisians (and Romans, etc) join the "coalition" for these endless wars on Muslims? And - as long as they do so - why are they surprised when the victims fight back?

- These are not just rhetorical questions, I'm really puzzled by the situation. At least - to be consistent - shouldn't we ban drones also?

I am closer to Edgar on this one. My specific point was that the two soldiers brought the gunman under control without carrying any guns. And yes, drones aren't any better than other means of war. Indeed, Obama's nickname over here is, whenever one talks about drones, "Mr. Nobel Peace Prize winner". He may still be an improvement over George double-u, but drone war is definitely not popular here. However, likewise it is not popular that ISIS (financed by our influential "friends" in Saudi Arabia) receives only symbolic little attacks from the U.S., while NATO partner Turkey supports them quite openly. There is a really dirty game going on there. Reducing all that to "the West attacks Islam" is more than misleading.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 23, 2015, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: Donkey
When there is an attack on a train in France nobody says it's the Muslim world attacking Christians ...

- no, because Europe is no longer Christian (thank G-d). But they certainly do say it's the Muslim world attacking Europe

Quote from: Donkey
... and we should strike back,

- who's "we"? Neither you nor I are European, so why do you automatically consider us on the Europe side instead of Arab? ... For the same reason "they" see us as one group: because we are. But, it's not a Christian group any more. I guess Caucasian would be the accurate label

- more important, nobody says we should strike back, because we're already striking and have been for decades

Quote from: Donkey
... so why are you so quick to spout that nonsense that anti-terrorism efforts are inherently anti-Muslim ?

- As a general rule: 1) if I say something factual or to-the-point, it's obvious why I said it. 2) If it's funny, it's a joke. 3) If it's nonsense, it's because it's a deeply-held, well-thought-out non-sensical belief. And if I'm quick to spout it, it's because I wasn't busy with something more important

- But I said nothing (nor did anyone else) about "anti-terrorist". Better way to put it: attacks on Muslims are inherently anti-Muslim

Big-picture-wise, I'm taking a longer view than u. If you look at only today, perhaps your view is sensible. But where did the "terrorists" come from: ISIS, Al Quaeda, and etc.?

Now we could go back to Xerxes, or Muhammad, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Crusades, ... but let's not overdo it. Start with 1951 - beginning of the rrr314159 era.

Two years later, without my concurrence (admittedly I was a little young to be consulted), the US and UK (Kermit Roosevelt of the CIA was a key operative) illegally and unethically engineered the deposition of Mosadeggh (democratically elected P.M) in Iran, because the oil barons wanted more money (cold war considerations were the excuse). They returned Mohammad Reza as king, who functioned as one of our "puppets". Naturally the Iranians didn't like that, and in 1979 chased him out and put the Ayatollah in charge. There's no doubt that if the West had left them to themselves they would have become more and more Westernized; instead, reacting against our heavy-handed policies, they returned to strict theocracy. Of course the new Iran hated the West (remember Embassy hostages, Jimmy Carter etc).

So, the West built up Saddam Hussein as a counter-weight, provided military support and chemical weapons, encouraged the bloody Iran-Iraq war, etc. I never disliked Saddam, figuring u have to be brutal to keep together a country of Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds. But be that as it may, US specifically helped him in his brutality, supported use of chemicals against his own people, so he would keep down this other enemy we'd made for the good of oil barons' bank balances.

Meanwhile Russia invaded Afghanistan and the CIA financed and trained Osama Bin Laden against them, creating the seed of al-Qaeda.

Then Saddam started looking dangerous - he might unify the Arab world (by force, partly) and be a threat to Israel. Again, lots of money was involved. In 1991 I was working for the Navy on submarine Combat Control Systems. My understanding was, they were to be used against the USSR; indeed, the idea was they would never be used, they were a deterrent. Now, USSR was a huge power with equal weaponry, which threatened (from US POV, anyway) major portions of the world: a worthy enemy. Suddenly for no good reason those subs were deployed against tiny Iraq, killing innocent civilians as well as (to my mind) innocent soldiers. Who cares about Kuwait? It was always Oil and Israel (O&I) - not, I felt, good reasons. So I had to leave, and went to private sector, writing DBase II and SQL (very boring).

This post is too long already, but other major topics include US support of Saudi Arabia dictators; and Israel: Truman early recognition thereof, which extremely alienated and amazed Arabs; Jonathan Pollard and the secret transfer of nukes to Israel; and major weapons / technology transfer in general, putting them far ahead of rest of Middle East. Don't forget Sykes-Picot Agreement, etc. And, etc.

2001, the World Trade Center. Why did those people (mostly Saudi Arabians, whose dictators we have kept in power) hate us enough to do that? To me it's totally obvious, if you know a little history. Until then Muslims hadn't attacked European-descent lands for, what, 400 years or so - while we'd slaughtered and hassled them for O&I. None of that slaughter ever did me the slightest good; I've been against it from day one. Of the 3000 deaths on 9/11, probably 2700 felt the same as me (they were "civilians"), but a good 300 were vitally involved in that aggression - they were white-collar terrorists. And as we all know,

Quote from: Donkey
...they are against active terrorists, it is unfortunate that civilians are killed and injured as a result but that is a byproduct of war.

George W. (with the help of neo-con "advisors", and undoubtedly the promise of money later on) decided to retaliate with some serious butt-kicking. Can't disagree - we were, indeed, attacked - but given the ratio of killings to that point (maybe 300,000, or 3 million, who knows, to 3000) I felt a very targeted ("surgical") response was called for. In other words, I'd say Osama had good, even admirable, reason to do it, but should be killed just on general principles. But instead we destroyed our previous pal, Saddam, who was completely uninvolved and had no WMDs. Why? Because he threatened to unify Arabs against Israel and keep their own oil, so this was a convenient excuse. We left the country (previously a modern, relatively happy place) a "rogue state", infrastructure ruined, millions dead, everybody reverting to bloody savagery. Then Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, the entire Arab world (it seems) became the target. Why? Well, we just went over that. Since Persians and Arabs have little in common except their religion, I think it's very reasonable, in this "us-against-them" context, to lump them together as "Muslims". Essentially the wars, police actions, spy actions, "regime changes", have been West ("Caucasians", if you will) against Muslims. NOT because of theology, but money (=O&I); still the label "Muslim" is not inaccurate.

So if you look at only the last 24 hours, obviously the "terrorist" in Paris is a bad guy. But considering the history of these hostilities it's another story. If you look at the last 24 hours, it's not about Christians vs. Muslims - that's irrelevant. But in an historical context, it's relevant. Look at last 24 hours, ISIS is horrible. Last decades, however, ISIS appears inevitable result of the constant aggression of the West against Middle East. You know, Gandhi would last about 5 minutes over there. As with Saddam, brutality has become necessary to hold power in that witch's brew of bombs, drones, foreign invaders, factions etc.

You call them terrorists, I call them Freedom Fighters. Perhaps we can split the difference and call them "people"?

Quote from: jj2007
My specific point was that the two soldiers brought the gunman under control without carrying any guns.

- u didn't mention that (and I didn't know it). Yes that's a very good gun-control-advocate point: guns were only the problem here, not the solution. Still it's only one incident
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 25, 2015, 08:33:41 AM
Zwijgen is instemmen, i.e., Qui tacet consentit
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: Siekmanski on August 25, 2015, 03:06:09 PM
Hoc est verum, Silentium est Aureum
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 25, 2015, 03:12:59 PM
I don't like either side much, Daesh or western stupidity when it comes to the middle east in general. Just a little background on Daesh and you will know that its head honcho was imprisoned and tortured by the "good guys". Then after Bush and his cronies destroyed Iraq with "Shock and Awe" they disbanded Saddam's Iraqi army leaving a lot of people really pissed off and let Iraq descend into sectarian warfare. have we all heard this scenario before, those magic weapons of mass destruction that disappear when anyone looks for them and winning the hearts and minds of ordinary Iraqis by sending them to Allah.

Then there is the implicit demonisation of Muslims with the usual bullsh*t that its only the bad ones they want to kill. Killing "hajis" is sport to many of the "good guys" and those "hajis" know it. Who cares if the sanctions against Iraq starved many of the women and children of Iraq to death, they were only arabs anyway. Trouble is with those "hajis" was they had the audacity to fight back, home made land mines, resistance attacks on occupying forces, destruction of supply routes and in the long term, they won against the combined stupidity of the "good guys" who left Iraq with their tail between their legs after losing a fortune, not getting the oil concessions and having a high injury rate among servicemen.

Inbetween then and now you have had the coalition of stupidity wanking off about how they were helping the civilian population of Libya by bombing the PHUK out of it, turning it into a failed Al Queda state now ripe for the pickings by Daesh.

Daesh are a bunch of barbarians that need to be carpet bombed into oblivion but no-one should forget who created them, look in the halls of power in the UK, US, Canada, OZ, Spain and some of Europe and you will find the creators of Daesh. The winners are the military/industrial complex (ALA Ike), the supply chain for keeping troups in sh*thole foreign countries and the level of international finance that paid for it with the saving of ordinary taxpayers and the "good guys" laughed all the way to the bank which they then took to places like Dubai.

The losers were the hajis, coalition servicemen who either died or were injured and were treated like sh*t when they returned home injured. Then there were the patsies in the countries that supported the occupation of Iraq and now the battle against Daesh who are footing the bill to line the pockets of the military/industrial complex.
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: rrr314159 on August 25, 2015, 07:57:05 PM
Quote from: hutch
Daesh are a bunch of barbarians that need to be carpet bombed into oblivion

- fine, let Australia do it
Title: Re: Latest Russian Jokes
Post by: hutch-- on August 26, 2015, 02:08:33 AM
> - fine, let Australia do it

> but no-one should forget who created them