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General => The Colosseum => Topic started by: shankle on November 15, 2015, 09:06:12 PM

Title: 10000 refugees
Post by: shankle on November 15, 2015, 09:06:12 PM
I read where The Idiot in my white house is going to let 10000 refugees into my country
between the ages of 18 and 30. :shock:
I just can't believe Congress is going to let this happen.
It seems that anything that is bad for the USA happens.
I'm afraid to listen to the news anymore. It's frightening.
I understand the plight of refugees but we will see a repeat of what
happened in France doing this. This idiot needs to be impeached.


Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 15, 2015, 09:29:18 PM
Turkey has accepted one Million refugees.
Lebanon hosts two Millions, with a native population of only 4 Million (of which one Million Christians, if somebody is interested).

The Idiot is the guy who decided to look for oil in the Middle East, and to bomb Iraq back into the medieval age.

Come on, don't be shy, click on this link (https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&biw=1366&bih=669&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=Iraq+culture+monuments&oq=Iraq+culture+monuments), it shows how Iraq was before somebody far away said "my people needs SUVs, and SUVs need cheap petrol". Congratulations, Jack :icon14:

Who created Osama Bin Laden? Who created ISIS? A bit of background (attention, it could hurt your patriot feelings!): Destruction of Iraq Cultural Heritage (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/03files/Looting_of_Iraqi_Treasures_01.html)

If you have plenty of time this Sunday, read A Brief History of U.S. Interventions (http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html) (it's not brief, actually).
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: TWell on November 16, 2015, 12:02:46 AM
Lot of figures here (https://www.google.fi/search?q=refugees+by+country+2015&biw=1119&bih=610&tbm=isch&imgil=r6Dl39aq_SJg9M%253A%253BoRRge78-PyZAdM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.forbes.com%25252Fsites%25252Fniallmccarthy%25252F2015%25252F06%25252F18%25252Fthe-countries-with-the-most-refugees-per-1000-inhabitants-infographic%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=r6Dl39aq_SJg9M%253A%252CoRRge78-PyZAdM%252C_&usg=__xgxeZLhlg0A2ZXdMjguDbK9DYjI%3D#imgrc=r6Dl39aq_SJg9M%3A&usg=__xgxeZLhlg0A2ZXdMjguDbK9DYjI%3D)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on November 16, 2015, 12:46:02 AM
I am with JJ here, western coalitions, UK, US Eu, OZ and the rest have been charging around the world smashing countries ever since the fall of the old Soviet Union.

Iraq 1
Somalia
Yugoslavia
Iraq 2
Libya
Egypt
Syria
Yemen

Its clear that governments and the matching military simply don't care about the consequences. Currently Europe is the patsy for bad policy in Libya and Syria with the massive flooding of immigrants. While American politician are as stupid as the rest of the world's politicians, the death of an American diplomat in Libya from what was supposed to be thankful allies makes a fool of the idea that people are being protected and liberated by bombing the sh*t out of their country.

The solution for the west is to stop supporting terrorism in the name of "freedom fighters" and bomb the sh*t out of IS(Daesh) like the Russians are doing.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: dedndave on November 16, 2015, 05:05:49 AM
Turkey has accepted one Million refugees.
Lebanon hosts two Millions

that's nice - muslims didn't knock down their buildings and kill 3000
we don't need more muslims in the us
they hide behind civilians like cowards, and expect us to be nice to them?
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: shankle on November 16, 2015, 05:38:03 AM
I agree and don't agree with your comments.
Let me explain my feelings about the US.
1. Our government should be in the business of ONLY defending this country.
    Let the other poor slobs destroy their own countries without our intervention.
2. I'm not a fan of our traitorous Congress. Most of them should be put on a rocket
   and shot straight into the sun. But politics being what it is it would do no good
   as more scum would soon fill their places.
3. This country has been fighting wars for at least the last 70 years.
    This has to stop!
4. And the kicker is "OVER RELIGION". What a farce. Or my God is better than
    your God so change to mine or DIE!
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on November 16, 2015, 06:19:01 AM
Quote
1. Our government should be in the business of ONLY defending this country.
    Let the other poor slobs destroy their own countries without our intervention.

Agreed.. but you get people who think they know what's right for your country, and try dictate without knowing the whole story, so in the end it's a complete stuffup.
I've always said that the US was stupid wrt to africa and the middle east... these places make hitler look like child's play.

Quote
2. I'm not a fan of our traitorous Congress. Most of them should be put on a rocket
   and shot straight into the sun. But politics being what it is it would do no good
   as more scum would soon fill their places.
Execution by rocket... good idea.. :biggrin: it'll be good for space exploration and rocket development..
and there are so many polititians.. an endless supply of guinea pigs

Quote
3. This country has been fighting wars for at least the last 70 years.
    This has to stop!
You guys can vote them out.... We here just refuse and thumb our noses at the polititian/war mongers (and that's being nice  ;))
Mind you.. our lot are stupid.. so we have no worries - they couldn't organise a booze-up in a brewery.

Quote
4. And the kicker is "OVER RELIGION". What a farce. Or my God is better than
    your God so change to mine or DIE!
There is always going to be crusades like this, and I've already proposed..
1- No churches in muslim countries, no mosques in christian countries and separate 'grey' areas where both mosques and churches can be built.
2- If you cannot live the by adopted country's law.. you must fark off back to from where you came.

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 16, 2015, 08:38:59 AM
Turkey has accepted one Million refugees.
Lebanon hosts two Millions

that's nice - muslims didn't knock down their buildings and kill 3000

I try to distinguish between the nice, intelligent and civilised members of this forum and the Military Industrial Complex (Eisenhower (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY)) who ordered the destruction of the Middle East (Looting of Iraqi Treasures (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/03files/Looting_of_Iraqi_Treasures_01.html)):
Quote
One year after the plundering of the Baghdad Museum, the Iraq puppet Government Provisional Council maintains that the extent of the robbery was overrated and that the Coalition forces have recovered almost all the stolen objects. The truth is quite another. With the Pentagon’s complicity, a gang of traders seized what best they could during the fall of the regime. Later, they organized wide indiscriminate excavations in archeological sites, especially Assyrian and Babylonian. Additionally, the U.S. forces have destroyed a large number of Omeyan and Abaside monuments during recent urban clashes against the resistance.

So you don't want 10,000 muslims? Take a Million Christian Lebanese then. They are under severe pressure from American allies, the Saudis. Btw Europe, although almost innocent regarding the causes of the Syrian war, already receives 10,000 - per day, not per year.

Have a good night, my friend.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: xanatose on November 16, 2015, 10:46:44 PM
Except for the Vatican. With ZERO refugees accepted.

Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on November 17, 2015, 01:31:18 AM
I see that JJ is very much in favor of immigration, albeit overcrowded and uncontrolled. I wonder if he has offered his home to any of them. I suspect that the term refugee is, in fact, an euphemism from long time ago.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 17, 2015, 01:58:05 AM
I see that JJ is very much in favor of immigration.

Bad, bad misunderstanding, dear avcaballero! No, I am completely against people being forced to leave their homes because of a war for which they have absolutely no responsibility. I am against little children walking with their parents thousands of miles through Europe, in freezing cold weather, and this because the politicians of the richest country in the World have decided to bomb the Middle East back to the medieval age, with the not-so-outspoken logic "our citizens in God's own country need trucks to do their shopping, and trucks need oil, and if the Saddam Husseins and Gheddafis and Assads of this region don't give us the oil, we will use our military power to scare the sh*t out of them".

And believe me, I would never have posted in this thread if it had not been started by a declared supporter of the Military Industrial Complex that is behind the war in Iraq and Syria. And instead of silently vomiting and keeping my mouth shut, I have decided to declare WAR on this bullshit, and to tell "shankle" alias Jack what I think of people who believe they have the right to destroy whoever doesn't obey to their will, as the U.S. have done on uncounted occasions in the past. (http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html) And especially what I think of people who start  :eusa_boohoo: whining bitterly when their President (who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, probably for the bright idea to send drones to do the dirty work - did I see the word "cowards" somewhere in this thread?) announces to generously "accept" 10,000 people in God's Own Country, about 0.1% of those whom he and his cronies have made homeless.

And, just to avoid misunderstandings: NO, I don't support terrorism, not from ISIS as in Paris, not from the Saudis as in Yemen, not from the U.S. as in the whole Middle East.

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03429/refugees_austria_3429897b.jpg)

Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on November 17, 2015, 01:47:53 PM
I think I know where Jack is coming from in that no-one needs a massive influx of people who don't like you and possibly have terrorists mixed in with them. The real problem is civilian populations across the world have little voice when it comes to what major powers do when they can get away with it. There are a massive number of people who have been displaced in Iraq and Syria of multiple religious backgrounds, Sunni Muslim, Shia Muslim, Ancient Christian groups and the Yadizi folks and its all from one source, a Saudi base extreme form of Islam that has been further adapted to the power play of Daesh (IS/ISIL/ISIS) who have seriously perverted Islam in ways that have been condemned by the vast majority of Muslim scholars around the world.

Now the problem of course is that the situation is not that simple, Daesh survive because of western and gulf country backing to destroy Syria and while we have kept hearing the bullsh*t about Syrian moderates, the aid payed for by western taxpayers has been funnelled directly into either the Al Nusra front or Daesh so its western backing through a devious mechanism that has kept Daesh alive and conquering more of Iraq and Syria.

I wonder when the western powers will ever realise that their country smashing over the last 20 years or so comes at a price, displace millions of people and they end up on your doorstep with terrorists mixed in with them. Its a straight forward act of war to flood someone else's country with refugees, many of who have suffered very badly at the hands of terrorist groups in their own country. I wonder why it took Hollande so long to get off his arse and start doing what should have been done in the first place, bomb the sh*t out of Daesh until they sink back into the hole they slid out of in the vacuum cause by the destruction of Iraq.

Russia got it started by working with the Syrian army, recently the US has been working with the Kurds with air support and are starting to have some success, Iran has people on the ground helping the Iraqi army and the Shia militia and they are doing OK, what needs to be done is cut off the money supply to Daesh, bomb their oil convoys to deprive them of money, put anyone who buys Syrian historical artifacts in jail and collectively stop trying to play both sides with bullsh*t like the non-existent moderates in Syria.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on November 18, 2015, 12:14:29 AM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/paris-under-attack-was-it-a-false-flag-a-pretext-for-nato-to-intervene-in-syria-and-the-middle-east/5489159 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/paris-under-attack-was-it-a-false-flag-a-pretext-for-nato-to-intervene-in-syria-and-the-middle-east/5489159)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-15/false-flag-link-passport-found-next-suicide-bomber-was-fake-claim-us-french-sources (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-15/false-flag-link-passport-found-next-suicide-bomber-was-fake-claim-us-french-sources)

http://www.amazon.com/World-Order-Revolution-Essays-Resistance/dp/6027005874 (http://www.amazon.com/World-Order-Revolution-Essays-Resistance/dp/6027005874)
 ;)

Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on November 18, 2015, 12:48:09 AM
Van,

I don't think it holds water, after the Daesh attacks in Turkey, Egypt (the Russian plane) and Lebanon, the attacks in Paris have that sniff of Daesh all over it. I have heard some pretty stupid conspiracy theories in my time (Saddam had weapons of mass destruction) but Daesh on the ground are a reality and with suicide bombers involved, it looks like their work. Now this of course does not prevent some additional bullsh*t from occurring (the passport etc ...) as I imagine Hollande must justify the spending to his own electorate.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 18, 2015, 01:27:38 AM
The extreme right, from Le Pen in France to Afd & Pegida in Germany, the Lega in Italy and the GOP in the U.S., have a strong interest in sending the message "refugees are terrorists"; hate is an integral part of fascist "culture", even when it comes in the disguise of "Christian" fundamentalism.

Of course, this is absolute bullsh*t. Daesh/ISIS has planned the Paris attacks as professionally as Bin Laden planned 9/11. If they needed qualified staff, the person would arrive at Charles de Gaulle airport in First Class with a valid passport and business or tourist visa. To put things in perspective:

The jihadist group Islamic State (ISIS) has estimated its 2015 budget at $2 billion, allegedly covering costs for wages of fighters and compensation of dead militants' families (http://europe.newsweek.com/isis-release-2015-budget-projections-2bn-250m-surplus-296577) (btw ask yourself where the 2 billion come from; hint: it's not only oil sales...)

The Daesh leaders would be incredibly stupid to rely on fragile little boats, thousands of kilometres walking and crossing half a dozen borders for their big "project". They don't seem to be stupid, actually. Cruel and barbaric yes, stupid no.

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015/11/map%20athens%20to%20france_0.jpg)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on November 18, 2015, 01:34:05 AM
I don't think it holds water..
Nah.. I was just highlighting the next phase.. with no opinion in mind..
Just watching everyone going bananas..
 ;)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on November 18, 2015, 04:50:25 AM
Funny... Language warning !!!..  :badgrin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glxh9ZgP7kc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glxh9ZgP7kc)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Siekmanski on November 18, 2015, 07:21:31 PM
ISIS financed by 40 countries, #G20 members included: Putin at Turkey summit.

https://youtu.be/t1qHORKKLls

President Vladimir Putin says he’s shared Russian intelligence data on Islamic State financing with his G20 colleagues: the terrorists appear to be financed from 40 countries, including some G20 member states.

Islamic State, Russian anti-terror op in Syria
During the summit, “I provided examples based on our data on the financing of different Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) units by private individuals. This money, as we have established, comes from 40 countries and, there are some of the G20 members among them,” Putin told the journalists.

Putin also spoke of the urgent need to curb the illegal oil trade by IS.

"I’ve shown our colleagues photos taken from space and from aircraft which clearly demonstrate the scale of the illegal trade in oil and petroleum products," he said.

“The motorcade of refueling vehicles stretched for dozens of kilometers, so that from a height of 4,000 to 5,000 meters they stretch beyond the horizon," Putin added, comparing the convoy to gas and oil pipeline systems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaKGe_Wh4hI
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on November 18, 2015, 08:09:24 PM
What's the goal of cutting the IS financial? They only need a bomb. French police says that there are more than 5 thousands radicals inside (only) France and some of the dude that operated on the attack to Paris was unknown to the police.

I think that Europe should take their hands out of Medium East or elsewhere and concentrate inside of Europe. There was many times that West was in Medium East for spurious reasons but other for intermediate in some internal wars. They are the same thing, both will be understand as crusades and will origin more radicals.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 18, 2015, 08:25:46 PM
“The motorcade of refueling vehicles stretched for dozens of kilometers, so that from a height of 4,000 to 5,000 meters they stretch beyond the horizon"

That is an extremely difficult target, of course 8)

So far, the logic of the Turkish and U.S. "attacks" on IS seems to be "drop some bombs here and there, make a lot of noise, but make sure you don't cause any serious damage". Hopefully the French are now furious enough to attack these medieval murderers.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Siekmanski on November 18, 2015, 09:01:39 PM
What's the goal of cutting the IS financial?

Because the corrupt and the powerful in the world using their money and barbaric religion weirdos to keep their power and wealth and keep and use us as brainwashed ( lies spread by the Media they own ) slaves.
It's time to get rid of those responsible for these acts. ( yes I'm a dreamer )

Don't believe everything spread by the media, but think for yourself. ( for example just follow where the money goes to.... )

So far, the logic of the Turkish and U.S. "attacks" on IS seems to be "drop some bombs here and there, make a lot of noise, but make sure you don't cause any serious damage"

This is an exact example of what I meant by "the corrupt and the powerful".

It's a strange world we live in.........
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on November 18, 2015, 09:21:53 PM
I understand you, but what I mean is that for cutting that is needed an intervention in Syria, this will produce contra reactions, may be cutting the vicious circle is a need? Let them solve their own problems, we should do the same.

Hmm, yes probably I'm wrong, just say for say
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Siekmanski on November 18, 2015, 09:26:48 PM
The problem is that we as Europe, obey the US until it is in our backyard then we can act, what France is doing now. ( we are all hypocrites )
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on November 18, 2015, 09:59:33 PM
America has its share of guilt, as also has Europe. I have never believed in the stories with a single culprit. We have gone to Islamic countries not only for oil, but also in missions of "peace", both things are bad ideas. In my opinion everyone should solve their own problems.

USA did not force us to neglect what we had inside and what came, that we did it all by ourselves. Nor it forces us to spend so much money. When one runs out of money usually is tempted to look at someone else's pocket.

The world is moving towards large continent-sized markets: North America, China. If Europe wants to face the future in a strong way, it should do in block, but we're destroying the EU. That's not America's fault.

Yes, it is possible that we are all a little hypocritical, or perhaps I'm wrong again. That's all.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Siekmanski on November 18, 2015, 10:17:49 PM
USA did not force us to neglect what we had inside and what came, that we did it all by ourselves.

Dream on....
Just like many countries in the world have US military bases because they want or need it ?

(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/globalmilitarism58_14_small.jpg)

large picture: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/globalmilitarism58_14.jpg

Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on November 18, 2015, 10:29:09 PM
That's nothing to do with what I said. I Insist, we have the vote and we have voted. None of us can refuse their share of responsibility greater or lesser extent
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: xanatose on November 18, 2015, 10:38:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Siekmanski on November 18, 2015, 10:42:11 PM
OK, one example,

It's a secret that we have US nukes ? We voted against.

Including former prime ministers Ruud Lubbers and Dries van Agt recently confirmed the presence of nuclear weapons at Volkel. In a documentary by National Geographic Lubbers said there are 22 nuclear bombs in the Brabant airport.

'Conflict Netherlands and US on nukes Volkel '
( this was in 2013 )
Netherlands wants to make agreements with the United States on the financial consequences of an accident involving nuclear weapons. The Americans refuse.

Are we the masters of our own country?

Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 18, 2015, 10:49:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

Right, George Carlin Doesn't vote. But I find it a little bit simplistic to blame the voter for the mess. That would imply democratic elections, which is a really difficult issue in a media society.

For example. the German Social Democratic Party (SPD) spent a whopping 23 Million Euros in the 2013 election campaign (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/millionen-aufwand-spd-goennt-sich-groesstes-wahlkampf-budget-a-905334.html), while their conservative counterparts (CDU) spent even 30 Millions. Do you believe an ordinary voter can take a clear, objective decision under the hammering of thousands of propaganda spots?

For comparison: Koch-backed network aims to spend nearly $1 billion in run-up to 2016 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-backed-network-aims-to-spend-nearly-1-billion-on-2016-elections/2015/01/26/77a44654-a513-11e4-a06b-9df2002b86a0_story.html)
Quote
The new $889 million goal reflects the anticipated budgets of all the allied groups that the network funds. Those resources will go into field operations, new data-driven technology and policy work, among other projects, along with likely media campaigns aimed at shaping the congressional and White House elections.

(my highlighting)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on November 18, 2015, 10:57:55 PM
There is one that stuck in my head for the people of Spain, when Bush wanted support for the 2001 invasion of Iraq, Asner stood up and supported Bush, even though something like 90% of people in Spain opposed the invasion. It is becoming increasingly the case that voters in many countries no longer matter for no matter what they vote for, the outcome will be the same. Asner got R_Souled at the next election but it was too late, the damage was done while he was in office.

The only real spanner in the works is the independence of both China and Russia as the financial elite have little leverage in either country. The emergence of the BRICS economic block is slowly seeing the power of western financial elites waining and this is why they are getting more and more desperate trying to grasp for control. the real problem is with their influence of military like the UK, US and to a lesser exstent Europe, these loonies may try and win a nuclear war and of course that will not happen, MAD will level the playing field.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on November 18, 2015, 11:15:26 PM
> Siekmanski
I didn't say that the US was blameless. I say that we all have a part of it, even it is more comfortable toss it to another. The problem comes from many decades ago with extreme relaxation with what came and what we could see that we already had. They have been necessary several killings on European soil to move something (not the first)

> Hutch
The problem Aznar has more than that. When one is tiny and has a problem, if someone offers help to you, then you have to pay. The tiny island of Perejil may be small but there were great turbulence regarding that in those days. USA offered aid to Spain and then requested his counterpart, that's the point. By the way, on that occasion France was positioned against Spain.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: dedndave on November 18, 2015, 11:42:29 PM
the problem that Hutch brought up is really at the core of most of our problems
the governments don't represent the people, as they should - or as they were intended

this applies to both sides of the muslim issue

another problem is that the masses are brainwashed
again - this applies to every country i can think of

here in the US, we are raised to believe the US is a great country
they even tell us outright lies about the beginnings of the country
the rebels are portrayed as heros, rather than "traitors of England" - lol
we are taught that it's heroic to fight for the country,
honorable to die for the country, and so on
what they don't tell you is that, as a soldier, you are really just a pawn for some rich fuck to become richer
the masses fight the wars for those in power, not always for the freedom or safety of their country

the same is true of muslims
their leaders hoard the wealth while the masses live in mud huts
then, they tell the masses that the US is to blame, and give them guns and bombs
no wonder they are pissed off

point being, i try not to blame the masses (although, it is hard sometimes)
the guy with a bomb strapped to his ass is being manipulated, just like nearly everyone else
he would probably much rather stay at home with his family and raise his kids

these wars shouldn't be about muslim vs christian
or about arab vs white (or black or oriental or whatever)
these wars should be about the power hungry assholes vs the masses
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Siekmanski on November 18, 2015, 11:48:55 PM
Hi Dave,

Totally agree with you.

Just follow this and wait and see if the power hungry assholes get this done in Europe.
And see if our votes count.....

Across Europe, the resistance against the TTIP treaty:

"The right to profit for companies in this Convention held over the democratic rights of European citizens. It would be bizarre if energy companies later on be able to fight in court the democratic laws and regulations that protect the environment and health. "

TTIP stands for Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. The purpose of the convention is to take away as much as possible trade restrictions. There are three dangers:

1.The removal of trade restrictions is tantamount to the elimination of standards that are meant to protect civilians. All sorts of standards are under pressure, for example in the areas of employment, sustainability and safety. A race to the bottom.......

2.The treaty contains a chapter on investment (ISDS). This allows companies to sue countries via a special court if they feel that they are being impeded by national policies. High claims are expected. The rule of law is passed, democracy is being eroded.

3.De realization of the treaty has been very shadowy and undemocratic. The House of Representatives can hardly control the process. It is questionable whether national parliaments at all should give approval.

4.We do not want American conditions, stop an economic NATO.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: dedndave on November 18, 2015, 11:52:45 PM
same thing here - i haven't met anyone that wants this treaty to go through
but - it's being passed without our consent, without a chance to vote on it

i wish that people wouldn't be so down on american citizens, too
the vast majority of us do not want these wars
we don't want innocent people to be harmed
it is our government that does all this crap - and we have no control over our government
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Siekmanski on November 19, 2015, 12:04:16 AM
I have nothing against the citizens of our countries.  :t
We are not that different at all, also we have no control over our government.

I'm against the financially motivated so called "non violent" crimes committed by business and government professionals.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: sinsi on November 19, 2015, 12:21:14 AM
it is our government that does all this crap - and we have no control over our government
That is one of the most chilling things I have read. Not "sad but true" but "horrifying but true".
We seem to be on the same path over here.

2.The treaty contains a chapter on investment (ISDS). This allows companies to sue countries via a special court if they feel that they are being impeded by national policies. High claims are expected. The rule of law is passed, democracy is being eroded.
Search Techdirt.com for ISDS as well as TPP and TTIP.

We brought in plain packaging for cigarettes and the tobacco companies sued the government. Lost, lost their appeal, lost in the High Court. Nowhere to go.
So they sued us from Hong Kong, because we has a treaty with them with an ISDS clause. Even got Ukraine to join, and out import/export ratio with them is 0:0  ::)
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Tobacco (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UsHHOCH4q8)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: anunitu on November 19, 2015, 02:57:03 AM
In reply to Hutch,about voters. I remember an interview with Dick Chany,he was asked about the percentage against the war(Iraq) and he replied so what,we make the decisions(Kind of dismissing the American people)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: dedndave on November 19, 2015, 04:41:35 AM
exactly - the best we are given is the illusion of control
in our elections, we are given a choice
but - none of the choices are good
no matter who gets elected, we get the same shit in the end
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 19, 2015, 05:13:07 AM
Even got Ukraine to join, and out import/export ratio with them is 0:0  ::)
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Tobacco (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UsHHOCH4q8)

I start liking John Oliver :t

Re TTIP, one aspect is the erosion of the tiny rest of democracy and national sovereignty via "private" courts, but what upsets me equally is the pile of lies that they use to justify that crap. Does anybody, in Mexico for example, remember what they promised when they pushed NAFTA down your throats?
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on November 19, 2015, 06:29:45 AM
We suffer a similar version, the TPP and sad to say our conservative government just rolled over and was shafted like all the rest as it gives foreign corporations control over governments with populations having no control of what has been done.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 19, 2015, 07:06:16 AM
My other network pushed me to see these videos:

The European Refugee Crisis and Syria Explained (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvOnXh3NN9w)
Iraq Explained -- ISIS, Syria and War In a Nutshell (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQPlREDW-Ro)

Exceptionally well done, but others should judge how correct the information is. For example, the figure of 800,000 refugees quoted there is already much higher according to more recent estimates; and the role of the Sunni countries (mainly Saudi Arabia and Qatar) in the Syrian "civil" war is imho vastly underrated.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on November 19, 2015, 10:16:54 AM
Dave,

> i wish that people wouldn't be so down on american citizens

Its a reasonably simple distinction, there are 2 Americas, MAIN street and WALL street, the MAIN street are the vast majority of ordinary Americans while WALL street are a bunch of ruthless greed bastards assett stripping MAIN street, destroying their jobs, driving them out of their houses, shutting down businesses and so on but happy enough to keep sending young Americans off to some sh*thole in the middle east or Africa to get killed just to keep some sh*tty war going to make a buck. To add insult to injury, their profits go overseas to places like Dubai and as the US government gets further into debt, the nation's infrastructure is decaying with bridges falling down and back when New Orleans was flooded, it was foreigners who shelled out a lot of money to try and help the poor to at least have somewhere to live.

The great con that WALL street is selling is that ordinary Americans are responsible for the sh*t that they do when in fact ordinary folks have no voice at all in US foreign policy, WALL street and all that it entails (military/industrial complex) long ago bought and paid for Congress, the Pentagon, CIA and a few others and if ordinary people disagree, they risk brutal police violence or a bullet. For the little that is worth you are not alone, in the UK its worse, Canada may improve after getting rid of Harper and we are at risk here in OZ because our government kisses the same arse as yours.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on November 19, 2015, 04:38:12 PM
Quote
i wish that people wouldn't be so down on american citizens..
Don't let it get you down.. I get harrased coz I'm white... and blamed for things I didn't 'invent' or control.
You stand up to them with solid reason, and show that you take no 'cr.p' from anyone.. works wonders.
 ;)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on November 19, 2015, 08:26:21 PM
i wish that people wouldn't be so down on american citizens
Personally, I like americans. If I can say, in particular, you are a very nice person, in my opinion, the alma mater of this forum :t
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on November 20, 2015, 03:35:07 AM
Van,

> I get harrased coz I'm white..

These are the normal joys of being a white anglo saxon, male, protestant, heterosexual, car owner and smoker. You are responsible for the thousands of years of atrocities, discrimination and the like and worse still, you are used to it. What's new ?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on November 20, 2015, 07:26:29 AM
True.. but I can live with that... but I beg to differ on one point... The Pope's my mate.. not sure why though.. He likes pizze - that's good enough :badgrin:
... and Ohhh... It's great to be heterooooo ..  :eusa_snooty:
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 20, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
i wish that people wouldn't be so down on american citizens, too
the vast majority of us do not want these wars
we don't want innocent people to be harmed
it is our government that does all this crap - and we have no control over our government

Nobody is "down" on American citizens in general, Dave. But I reserve the right to be down on the handful of individual American citizens who openly sympathise ("front-runner in some opinion polls") with idiots like this one:

Quote
"If there is a rabid dog running around your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog,” Carson, a front-runner in some opinion polls, said Thursday ... criticizing President Barack Obama's plan to admit 10,000 Syrian refugees within a year.
(Reuters) (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/19/us-usa-election-carson-idUSKCN0T82TJ20151119#gG1xldSkhJLqqGA7.97)

Again:
- 10,000 Syrian refugees within a year is a disgusting joke; that is what Europe gets per day
- these people are leaving their homes because somebody else destroyed them
- Europe did not start the mess in the Middle East, it was the Carson & Trump & Bush category of politicians who are responsible - remember Powell's "weapons of mass destruction"??

And I am definitely and severely down on German citizens who burn refugee homes. Fascists are fascists, regardless of their nationality.

One last question: Imagine that the Arab King Abdullah had destroyed your home and your country (yes, the U.S.), and you would be forced to emigrate with your leftovers, a rucksack and your mobile phone, and you would be walking with your little son on your shoulder all the way from Arkansas to Canada... what would you feel about King Abdullah in his golden palace? If you had a bomb in your pocket, and you would see a chance to enter that palace?? You think 3,000 9/11 victims is a lot? NO, I have no sympathy for terrorism. But I am pretty sure you would become a terrorist in that scenario.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: MichaelW on November 20, 2015, 02:51:59 PM
- 10,000 Syrian refugees within a year is a disgusting joke; that is what Europe gets per day
- these people are leaving their homes because somebody else destroyed them
- Europe did not start the mess in the Middle East, it was the Carson & Trump & Bush category of politicians who are responsible - remember Powell's "weapons of mass destruction"??

Our politicians, business leaders, etc have made us a target, but unlike most of them we don't have security people to protect us, so why shouldn't we be trying to protect ourselves, and assuming the worst? If we are going to take in these refugees, they should be confined under conditions where they can do no harm.
Title: ISIS Terrorists Looting Baghdad National Museum
Post by: jj2007 on November 20, 2015, 06:50:24 PM
- 10,000 Syrian refugees within a year is a disgusting joke; that is what Europe gets per day
- these people are leaving their homes because somebody else destroyed them
- Europe did not start the mess in the Middle East, it was the Carson & Trump & Bush category of politicians who are responsible - remember Powell's "weapons of mass destruction"??

Our politicians, business leaders, etc have made us a target, but unlike most of them we don't have security people to protect us, so why shouldn't we be trying to protect ourselves, and assuming the worst? If we are going to take in these refugees, they should be confined under conditions where they can do no harm.

You mean, send these families to a safe place like Guantanamo, for the "crime" of having been made homeless by the ruthless U.S. interventions in the Middle East? You really mean that, Michael, right? That's why the rest of the world loves you so much.

Just in case you think this is just the personal opinion of a notorious U.S. basher: Read today's editorial by Der Spiegel, a leading German journal (Google translate). (https://translate.google.it/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2Ffluechtlinge-in-usa-amerika-ist-unberechenbar-kommentar-a-1063724.html)

The U.S. spend 40% of the World's military budget, and they use it a lot to "defend" their interests; the rest of the world watch with awe... or rather, shock and awe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_awe#Civilian_casualties_and_destruction_of_infrastructure) 8)

Fact is, the U.S. are no longer perceived as a "friend" by their own handful of remaining friends. For example, by their closest allies in Europe, the British (The Guardian):
Quote
Shock and Awe is terrorism by another name; to others, a crime that compares unfavourably with September 11. To the homespun folks in Middletown, California - recorded by the BBC the other day singing patriotic songs around their dinner table - such perceptions may be utterly incomprehensible, but they are real and cannot be ignored. They explain why the American flag has become a liability
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-r4jEzIwfAcE/VKmfk-Ob51I/AAAAAAAAOro/OsryFxwzTwA/s400/estadounidenses-saquearon-tesoros-culturales-irak_1_1650087.jpg)
ISIS Terrorists Looting Baghdad National Museum(https://alfredoeye.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/1013869_625965064150855_1764326528_n.jpg)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on November 20, 2015, 10:51:50 PM
Quote
- remember Powell's "weapons of mass destruction"??
If you're talking about General Colin Powell.. from what I remember at the time, he was used as a pawn in the WMD fiasco... but he was the only one who had the guts to resign from Bush's gang before the US went into Iraq (version-2). It was written all over his face when the EU fact finding mission found nothing.

Nope it wasn't Colin's WMD's, it was Bush's, Chaney's lot... etc
 ;)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: CCurl on November 21, 2015, 01:13:28 AM
Does the Quran promote peace or violence?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

Or is it more that some of the followers CHOOSE to focus on those passages?

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/islam-for-peace-or-violence/

It is extremely hard for me to to separate the religion from those people who commit such atrocities in the name of that religion.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on November 21, 2015, 03:43:44 AM
Does the Quran promote peace or violence?

Here is a quiz for you; try to guess whether the quote is from Bible, Quran or Torah. (http://www.alternet.org/30-most-violent-exhortations-bible-torah-and-quran)

Another one:
When did Christians stop the crusades?
When did Christians stop tortures in the name of inquisition?
When did Christians stop burning women who were a little bit different?
When did Christians stop exorcism?
When did Christians stop removing the balls of little boys so that their voices sound clearer?
When did Christian priests stop violating little boys?

Religion is just an excuse for those who want to kill and torture. It is sheer coincidence that Hitler, Stalin or Mao were not religious persons. The atrocities of ISIS today do not differ significantly from what these guys have done some decades ago, or what our dearest allies in Saudi Arabia are still doing today, generously tolerated by the politicians who want to make business with them. And yet, I wish ISIS leaders could be caught and thrown into a cell forever. Together with the 7,000 Saudi Arabian "princes", Dick Cheney and George dubbl-u, of course.
Title: Re: ISIS Terrorists Looting Baghdad National Museum
Post by: MichaelW on November 21, 2015, 04:00:44 AM
You mean, send these families to a safe place like Guantanamo, for the "crime" of having been made homeless by the ruthless U.S. interventions in the Middle East? You really mean that, Michael, right? That's why the rest of the world loves you so much.

I mean a reasonable, comfortable, and safe place, but one where they cannot hide any sort of terrorist activities. Our government probably played a role in their being homeless, but "we the people" did not. And while I have no problem with providing for them, I do have a problem with taking on unnecessary risks so they can have "freedom".

Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on November 21, 2015, 06:04:03 AM
I have a better approach for people like Bush, Blair, our own home groan Little Johnny Howard, when they depart this world, send them to whichever version of HELL best suits then ask the devil (either Christian Satan or the Islamic Iblis) to dig and even deeper couple of levels of hell where it hotter and even more horrible, put Bush, Blair, Howard, a few of Bush's buddies like Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and corresponding R_Souls at the lowest level and in the next new level up, send the Daesh dumbphuks expecting heaven with so many virgins to that level AFTER they have had the "castrato" conversion so THEY are the virgins. All you need is a malicious demon who uses his reproductive organ as his pitchfork to keep these imbeciles in misery forever.

If this was the expectation that most of these R_Souls faced, perhaps the civilian population in so many countries would be left to live in peace instead of being played against each other and fed bullsh*t by their respective medias.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: CCurl on November 21, 2015, 06:13:46 AM
Quote from: jj2007
Religion is just an excuse for those who want to kill and torture. It is sheer coincidence that Hitler, Stalin or Mao were not religious persons. The atrocities of ISIS today do not differ significantly from what these guys have done some decades ago, or what our dearest allies in Saudi Arabia are still doing today, generously tolerated by the politicians who want to make business with them. And yet, I wish ISIS leaders could be caught and thrown into a cell forever. Together with the 7,000 Saudi Arabian "princes", Dick Cheney and George dubbl-u, of course.
Agreed. The difference, however, is that TODAY there are thousands of Islamic people who have CHOSEN to focus on the violent passages from their holy book, and they are TODAY committing these atrocities in the name of their religion and intend to force their religious beliefs on the rest of the world. That cannot be said about the Jews or the Christians.

Re Saudi Arabia, I agree totally ... they are just as barbaric as ISIS. But at least they aren't trying to force it on the rest of the world.

And for the record, I have no use for W, Cheney, or the current clown in the white house.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: shankle on November 22, 2015, 12:13:40 AM
Sounds like Hutch is familiar with Dante's Divine Comedy.
Horrible book about the circles of Hell.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: GoneFishing on November 22, 2015, 01:54:42 AM
Dave also likes Dante  :P
Dante and Virgil in hell (http://classic-online.ru/uploads/000_picture/513500/513424.jpg)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Oliver Scantleberry on November 28, 2015, 12:15:44 PM
The extreme right, from Le Pen in France to Afd & Pegida in Germany, the Lega in Italy and the GOP in the U.S., have a strong interest in sending the message "refugees are terrorists". . .

I love reading this remarkable genius.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Oliver Scantleberry on November 28, 2015, 01:09:33 PM
[quote
Right, George Carlin Doesn't vote. But I find it a little bit simplistic to blame the voter for the mess. . .
[/quote]

Let's see, our country is in a mess, thanks principally to Barry Obama. And ignorant voters put him in office.

George Carlin doesn't vote. Hmm, neither does Fred Thompson.

When it comes to brains, you've got the market cornered, JJ.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Oliver Scantleberry on December 02, 2015, 03:55:44 PM

Nobody is "down" on American citizens in general, Dave. But I reserve the right to be down on the handful of individual American citizens who openly sympathise ("front-runner in some opinion polls") with idiots like this one:

Quote
"If there is a rabid dog running around your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog,” Carson, a front-runner in some opinion polls, said Thursday ... criticizing President Barack Obama's plan to admit 10,000 Syrian refugees within a year.

Why am I not a bit surprised that you referred to Dr. Ben Carson as an idiot?
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on December 02, 2015, 07:03:28 PM
Why am I not a bit surprised that you referred to Dr. Ben Carson as an idiot?

Olly, if you could read other languages than English, you would be utterly surprised how Carson, Trump, Palin, George dubble-u, Rummy and other famous Americans of this category are being called in the free press outside God's Own CountryTM 8)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: anunitu on December 03, 2015, 03:20:36 AM
I do consider how people outside the US think about our politics. We feel it here,but outsiders see our broken families(Politics) and it is like everyone sees our weirdness.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on December 03, 2015, 04:57:13 AM
everyone sees our weirdness

I don't perceive you as weird, Anunitu. And there are many, many other American citizens who are just nice and normal people. It is the small but extremely outspoken fraction of hate and greed and arrogance and righteousness that makes the U.S. appear so weird from the outside.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Oliver Scantleberry on December 03, 2015, 06:07:54 PM
Why am I not a bit surprised that you referred to Dr. Ben Carson as an idiot?

Olly, if you could read other languages than English, you would be utterly surprised how Carson, Trump, Palin, George dubble-u, Rummy and other famous Americans of this category are being called in the free press outside God's Own CountryTM 8)

Well, I can't. How they are being called or WHAT they are being called, Jockey? But why do you bring dubble-u into this? That's bubble gum, isn't it? And Rummy won't do either. I don't play cards.
God's own country? Where's that, I wonder? What else have you got on your mind?

You may repeat your assertion that Dr. Ben Carson is an idiot. 
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: TWell on December 03, 2015, 06:57:35 PM
But why do you bring dubble-u into this?
Elected with jesus-card?
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on December 03, 2015, 07:38:34 PM
You may repeat your assertion that Dr. Ben Carson is an idiot.

He surely is. Remember how this thread started?

I read where The Idiot in my white house is going to let 10000 refugees into my country... This idiot needs to be impeached.

So, Olly, once more to make it crystal clear to you: People who abuse this forum to make propaganda for certain fascistoid parties are part of "the small but extremely outspoken fraction of hate and greed and arrogance and righteousness that makes the U.S. appear so weird from the outside.".

And now switch on Fox news and start whining, you senile old a**hole.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on December 03, 2015, 08:26:14 PM
 :biggrin:

Now now kiddies, we do try and keep it friendly here.  :P
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on December 03, 2015, 10:01:07 PM
Just a few thoughts:

* Not every people outside USA think weird of them, maybe usually for some tendency people. I would say that in most cases is just the opposite.

* Maybe every one may think out of politically correct dictates. Does anyone think that has the truth?

[I read my footprint, hence I stop here]
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on December 04, 2015, 12:43:37 AM
Hells teeth... there goes that rocket again...  :biggrin:

Err.. JJ, I'd look in the mirror wrt to bold statements like that  ;)



Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on December 04, 2015, 01:14:59 AM
Err.. JJ, I'd look in the mirror wrt to bold statements like that  ;)

I can look into the mirror any time without ever feeling ashamed. What about you? (http://masm32.com/board/index.php?topic=4534.msg48613#msg48613)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on December 04, 2015, 01:23:15 AM
I always find the ones who have no real proof of fact and don't know what they're really talking about, are the first to start shouting down the opposing point of view.
This is a symptom of extremist 'facism', communism, arrogance.. or just zealots with nothing upstairs...etc

Once you have the facts, know the truth.. it's not necessary to act like what you say..
 ;)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: dedndave on December 04, 2015, 02:12:34 AM
we'll accept one refugee for each one accepted by Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Jordan, etc
so far, that wouldn't be very many to keep an eye on
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on December 04, 2015, 03:32:33 AM
I think the real problem is the people smugglers have not found a cheap way to smuggle refugees to the US yet. We used to get boatloads of people from Indonesia who had traveled through about 6 countries to get here but the last 2 governments here changed it so that anyone who landed here illegally was sent to an island off New Guinea and would never be allowed to live in Australia. The flooding stopped shortly after.

I can only hope that the Russian succeed in pounding the sh*t out of Daesh so that many of these poor bastards can go home but often there is not much left. Daesh are spiteful bastards and destroy everything and the barrel bombing done by the Syrian air force has wrecked anywhere they have bombed.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on December 04, 2015, 04:16:11 AM
> the last 2 governments here changed it so that anyone who landed here illegally was sent to an island off New Guinea and would never be allowed to live in Australia

That would be impossible here because it goes against the politically correct status.

There are many facts that maybe have been ignored:

* Not every refugee is a homeless, in fact mostly aren't
* Not everybody in West is bad and not everybody in East is good
* Not everybody in West is radical and not everybody in East is peacefully
* Many people is a radical just because it decided so

I think that West should go out from East, but it is not enough, because million of people in the world just decided to be a radical
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on December 04, 2015, 05:02:47 AM
we'll accept one refugee for each one accepted by Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Jordan, etc
so far, that wouldn't be very many to keep an eye on

I perfectly agree, Dave :t

Quote
As of August 2014, the United Nations had registered 619,000 refugees in Jordan (http://syrianrefugees.eu/?page_id=87)

(with my sincerest greetings to rabid Mr. Carson (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-syria-refugee-dogs-216064))
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on December 04, 2015, 10:01:03 AM
we'll accept one refugee for each one accepted by Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Jordan, etc
so far, that wouldn't be very many to keep an eye on
It's not necessary for any country to accept any 'refugees'... this problem is of a Middle Eastern origin, and so there should the problem remain.
If the Middle East was stable and settled ... this would not have happened.....
 ;)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: MichaelW on December 04, 2015, 01:24:45 PM
this problem is of a Middle Eastern origin, and so there should the problem remain

I doubt that it was entirely of Middle Eastern origin because there are too many other players involved. I just don't want our government letting terrorists into this country, whatever their reason might be.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on December 04, 2015, 02:41:33 PM
If the Middle East was stable and settled ... this would not have happened.....

Exactly :t

Btw, the Middle East was stable and settled, until a certain country's government decided to destroy the Cradle of Civilisation with Weapons of Mass Destruction.
(http://image.slidesharecdn.com/baghdadbeforeandafterwar-090227111754-phpapp01/95/baghdad-before-and-after-war-20-728.jpg?cb=1235733534)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on December 04, 2015, 07:04:13 PM
For eons groups of people (tribes) have been at each others throats.. whether it be with scimitar's or modern weapons, it's no different today.
The weapons industry is always looking for buyers.. it's business. and there will be buyers, as they think that these things can make them win their 'struggles'.

The CIA, Russians..etc have all supplied the weapons... sure, but it's the people in that region who're doing each other.. in their power struggles.
If they settled differences more peacefully.. there would be no need for weapons/WMDs... and the resulting refugees.

Now the refugees in camps in the neighbouring countries.. I say the UN can help..
But not the opportunistic flood that walking across the EU... these should be rounded up and treated with immigrations laws that all of us have to adhere too.
If not accepted by immigration, transported back to the refugee camps.

Those pics might affect those who've never seen the results of mass violence (created by zealots and other empty craniums )..
But it means very little if the violence continues, and PC laws continue to permeate the society.

There will be a lot more pics to take.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on December 05, 2015, 12:08:07 AM
But not the opportunistic flood that walking across the EU... these should be rounded up and ... transported back to the refugee camps.

Brilliant, Van, and perfectly in line with your signature ('Sire, Sire!... the peasants are Revolting !!!') :t

The UN (or some experienced partner country?) could even organise job opportunities for them (Life in ... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan#Life_in_the_Bantustans)):

Quote
The Bantustans were generally poor, ... Their single most important home-grown source of revenue was the provision of casinos and topless revue shows, which the National Party government had prohibited in South Africa proper as being immoral. This provided a lucrative source of income for the South African elite
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: dedndave on December 05, 2015, 05:47:08 AM
i was misinformed about the number of refugees accepted by arab countries
the media article i saw said none had been accepted
but, i see that Jordan has accepted many
and, i see that Saudi Arabia already has a half million refugees
(though, are now turning them away)

nonetheless, we simply don't need more trouble than we already have
i don't understand the problem with wanting to protect ourselves from future terrorist attacks
word it however you like, but that's what it is
and - we, too, already have hundreds of thousands of islamic refugees in our country
i can't quote an exact figure - i'll let you google that

as for your picture of iraqi children before and after...
that is hardly a fair depiction of truth
i don't see any of the kurd children in the before photo
you know, the ones that sadam gassed in the north

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_M5CaCD0e1eA/SCIH63yIWFI/AAAAAAAAAFk/7x5hVKQC4f0/s400/Halabja%2B3.jpg)
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on December 05, 2015, 10:46:14 AM
It appears to be the case that international treaties on refugees are out of date in that they were designed for another era that is long past. Allowing that the middle east has long been the target for western interference "shock and awe" etc .... there is an ever increasing number of people displaced, hungry and very unhappy about their lot in life as a consequence of that interference. It has continued to be the case that many of the adjoining countries simply transfer displaced people through their own country to another adjoining country so you end up with an archipelago countries actively passing displaced people through their own country to a target destination.

This has been the situation in Australia where people from places like Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan travel through a list of adjoining Islamic countries until they pay people smugglers in Indonesia for a ride on an un-seaworthy boat to the Australian territory at Christmas Island in the Indian ocean. What needs to be understood here is this is by no means the only people who come to Australia. Last I heard Australia accepts about 200,000 people a year as immigrants and they come in through the front door with identification and the normal security checks to ensure that terrorists cannot routinely use this method of entry.

The problem with the boat people apart from lining the pockets of people smugglers is that it is uncontrolled and high risk in security terms and puts additional strain on the national infrastructure to absorb them and while Australia handles the formal level of immigration reasonably well, flooding of people arriving illegally is among other things difficult to manage. Another factor is the people who do immigrate here as refugees have often come out of some appalling refugee camp where they have been for some years yet the people who pay people smugglers in Indonesia to get to Australia are putting themselves in front of those who have rotted in some sh*thole refugee camp for some years.

This is the context to Australia hardening up its refugee policy so that anyone who arrives here illegally gets shoved off to an island off the north coast of New Guinea and will never be allowed to live in Australia.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on December 05, 2015, 03:20:43 PM
and, i see that Saudi Arabia already has a half million refugees
That is a highly doubtful number. Nobody enters that country (U.S. ally btw, and difficult to distinguish from ISIS...) without a visa. The 500,000 are almost exclusively workforce.
http://www.arabnews.com/featured/news/805236#comment-2250741469
Quote
Even the number of Syrian expatriats is being manipulated. The other day Sabria and Abdulateef proudly gave the number of “Syrian Guests” at 500,000 but today the AN boosted it to 2.5 million. Other GCC media is also playing a similar number game in this human tragedy.

Kudos to Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey, the only Muslim countries that took Syrian refugees. despite their own domestic problems and cash strapped woes. Because of the unwelcoming attitude of their oil rich Muslim brethren, the bulk of Syrian and Iraqi refugees are heading to Europe facing tremendous perils on the way for themselves and their families.

Half a million Syrians have been killed and at least 12 million Syrians have been forced out of their homes by armed conflict over the past five years, and half of that number are children (http://www.snopes.com/2015/11/25/present-tents/)

Of which 2 Million each went to Turkey and Lebanon (native population: 4 Million), about one Million to Germany, >600,000 to Jordan - and none of these states bear any moral responsibility for the complete destruction of Iraq that is the root cause for the existence of ISIS. Now of course somebody will claim "we used Weapons of Mass Destruction because Saddam was a cruel dictator".

Yes indeed, he was. But:
- under his regime, Christians (>one Million), Sunnis and Shia lived peacefully together
- there is a long list of worse dictators whose people would be very happy if the U.S. sent WMD (Kim Yong Un, ... (http://whatculture.com/offbeat/11-despicable-dictators-alive-today.php/8)) but who, unfortunately, have nothing to offer (in short: no oil there to grab), or are otherwise unfit for a U.S. invasion (http://whatculture.com/offbeat/11-despicable-dictators-alive-today.php/9).
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Magnum on December 05, 2015, 05:30:32 PM
http://www.snopes.com/2015/11/25/present-tents/

I thought I had seen it all..but air conditioned tents.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: dedndave on December 05, 2015, 11:40:48 PM
Jochen - don't get me wrong - i am no fan of gw bush or his friends
i don't support being over there because i know it's all about oil and money
but - sadam was not a nice guy, either - the picture you posted demonstrates an extremely biased view

on the left, we get idiots like obama
on the right, we get crooks like bush and cheney (may as well be organized crime)
that's why i'm a centrist - lol
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on December 06, 2015, 12:08:28 AM
Dave,

We have a good distinction for your situation, most foreigners who understand enough about US politics support Main Street America but detest Wall Street America. Glad to see you are a patriot.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: Farabi on December 06, 2015, 02:02:55 AM
If the Middle East was stable and settled ... this would not have happened.....

Exactly :t

Btw, the Middle East was stable and settled, until a certain country's government decided to destroy the Cradle of Civilisation with Weapons of Mass Destruction.
(http://image.slidesharecdn.com/baghdadbeforeandafterwar-090227111754-phpapp01/95/baghdad-before-and-after-war-20-728.jpg?cb=1235733534)

I used to call this picture as spreading hate and provocative. Because its true, I start looking for anyone behind this.

Guys, when I was 16, once I found 7 wise man claimed to be jews on maybe, mIRC. I had no idea what is wisdom. What I was looking for was magic. They absolutely knew what I wanted. I was a teenager back then, and I was so ashamed when they knew my feeling. If only I can talk to them again. Unfortunately, I believe, there is demon within my mind. They argue me, but I know, I have problem with my mental health. I missed that wise man. If only I can talk to them again.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on December 06, 2015, 02:57:25 AM
But not the opportunistic flood that walking across the EU... these should be rounded up and ... transported back to the refugee camps.
Brilliant, Van, and perfectly in line with your signature ('Sire, Sire!... the peasants are Revolting !!!') :t

JJ, this is typical of those who are prepared to distort what is said to further their aims, good or bad... sadly, you are a member of that group  ;)

Now, let's bring back the whole quote.. and suddenly it reads entirely different .. doesn't it ?  ::)
Quote
But not the opportunistic flood that walking across the EU... these should be rounded up and treated with immigrations laws that all of us have to adhere too.
If not accepted by immigration, transported back to the refugee camps.

WRT to the signature.. maybe you're not well read enough... Try the King of Id  :biggrin:
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: jj2007 on December 06, 2015, 03:33:55 AM
on the left, we get idiots like obama


Quote
Obama entered Harvard Law School in the fall of 1988. He was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review at the end of his first year,[42] president of the journal in his second year

President of the Harvard Law Review before age 30, neither son of a lawyer nor son of a multimillionaire - that tells you something about his IQ: It's clearly higher than mine. Of course, obviously many people, including me, are deeply disappointed with him. However, he works in a difficult environment:

That would imply democratic elections, which is a really difficult issue in a media society.

For example. the German Social Democratic Party (SPD) spent a whopping 23 Million Euros in the 2013 election campaign (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/millionen-aufwand-spd-goennt-sich-groesstes-wahlkampf-budget-a-905334.html), while their conservative counterparts (CDU) spent even 30 Millions. Do you believe an ordinary voter can take a clear, objective decision under the hammering of thousands of propaganda spots?

For comparison: Koch-backed network aims to spend nearly $1 billion in run-up to 2016 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-backed-network-aims-to-spend-nearly-1-billion-on-2016-elections/2015/01/26/77a44654-a513-11e4-a06b-9df2002b86a0_story.html)
Quote
The new $889 million goal reflects the anticipated budgets of all the allied groups that the network funds. Those resources will go into field operations, new data-driven technology and policy work, among other projects, along with likely media campaigns aimed at shaping the congressional and White House elections.

Obama needed roughly one Billion dollars to get elected, about 30 times Merkel's budget. It was not his money, of course, so those who funded his campaign have certainly presented the bill shortly after. His political achievements and non-achievements must be seen in the light of this condition. He is a puppet, yes, but he is not an idiot.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: dedndave on December 06, 2015, 05:27:54 AM
i say he's an idiot
gw bush, too - and he has a surprisingly high IQ, as well (not genius, but up there)

and, the clintons are crooked as any republican - lol

this election cycle is the worst
just look at the choices we have
no matter who gets elected, we get shit on a stick

it's the party committees that select and back candidates - not the people
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: caballero on January 08, 2016, 10:04:09 PM
Maybe Merkel (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046) should resign? Who knows, or maybe not

Europa? Nein danke.
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: K_F on January 13, 2016, 08:50:07 AM
Any comments now, from the peanut gallery ??
 ;)
 
Title: Re: 10000 refugees
Post by: hutch-- on January 13, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
He he he, nothing so pure as a reformed whore. I remember when OZ was copping heaps of chyte for its stop the boats policy from the wowsers in Europe, now they are whining about the asylum seekers flooding into their country. I certainly do have sympathy for all these poor bastards shoved out of their country by western and gulf country sponsored terrorists but sad to say, the "western assets" mixed in with them have a history of turning on their sponsors ALA The Taliban and of course that western sponsored smashing of Libya only to get Daesh installed in Gadaffi's place. I wonder when the penny will drop and people in western countries realise they are funding terrorism to prop up the international banking sector ?