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General => The Colosseum => Topic started by: Bill Cravener on May 23, 2012, 06:28:58 PM

Title: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on May 23, 2012, 06:28:58 PM
"Microsoft’s Windows 8 and Vista will have several things in common: Both are unwanted operating system updates that will flop in the marketplace."
Five Reasons why Windows 8 will be dead on arrival (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/five-reasons-why-windows-8-will-be-dead-on-arrival/10275)

"By year’s end, Windows 8 is going to be on every new PC around. You won’t have to use it though."
Five ways to avoid Windows 8 (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/five-ways-to-avoid-windows-8/11007)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: hutch-- on May 23, 2012, 07:19:41 PM
That's a good article, whether I agree with all of it or not, the range of alternatives is in fact interesting.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on May 23, 2012, 08:04:25 PM
The one thing I like about the new Win 8 is they appear to be dropping that sickly Aero Glass bullshit.

 Windows 8’s Desktop Arrives with No Aero Glass (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-8-s-Desktop-Arrives-with-No-Aero-Glass-271093.shtml)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: zooba on May 23, 2012, 08:43:45 PM
The "dead on arrival" article is from February and before the Consumer Preview (=="Beta"). At that point, most of the criticism was valid, though some of it does not apply anymore (between Consumer and Retail Previews; the Beta and the Release Candidate).

"No one needs Windows 8 on the desktop" was subjective then and is subjective now - it's the only criticism that won't go out of date but it applies equally well to every UI advance from the mouse onwards.

"Metro: An ugly, useless interface" is also subjective, but the more specific argument is that it is unfamiliar for users. This is true when you compare it to prior versions of Windows, but any four year old that's played with an iPad will figure out "click the big coloured box with the racing car" before they get "click the round button with the flag and then All Programs and then Games and then the racing car". (Hell, when I put it like that, my grandmother would probably get there first.) Jensen Harris (http://"http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/18/creating-the-windows-8-user-experience.aspx") pulled apart the "change==bad" myth/reaction pretty well on the Win8 blog.

"Where are the Windows 8 Applications?" is a fair call, though Windows Live has been pretty clear about how they'll be working. Office is a completely separate division at MSFT, and they were working on the next version of Office well before they got access to the new Metro stuff - most non-Windows developers didn't have access before the Developer Preview went public.

"Vexed Windows developers" is largely out of date. The tools are coming along, books are being written, and just like with C++11, most stuff will be ready for the official release.

Finally, "Too little, too late for the smartphone/tablet market" is just completely misunderstanding the intent in a way that is inexcusable for a "tech journalist." Windows Phone is separate and different to Windows 8 - different devs, different managers, different plans. Yes, Windows Phone has made very little impact in the market, largely (IMO) due to coming in late and not offering anything new. But Windows 8 is a different strategy - Apple (with the iPad) bet that consumers wanted a larger iPhone, so that's what they got, while Microsoft is betting that consumers want a smaller laptop. There are plenty of potential (largely business) consumers that won't consider an iPad as a business tool where they would consider a Windows 8 tablet that runs Office natively.

Losing the glass is a good thing; apparently it was "in style" at the time, though the only place I saw it was in Windows...



OT, do I now have the longest post on the new forum?  :icon_eek:

Cheers,
Zooba  :t
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on May 23, 2012, 09:52:11 PM
I've played a good bit with Win 8 beta and my opinion is it sucks!!  :icon13:

"So Microsoft is going all in with Windows 8 in a tablet market it can't dominate, while putting its cash-cow desktop operating system business at risk. That doesn't seem like a winning hand."
Playing the Wrong Hand With Windows 8 (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/254335/playing_the_wrong_hand_with_windows_8.html)

I agree!!
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on May 23, 2012, 10:39:02 PM
the problem is - ms can afford to make mistakes - even huge blunders
it's not like they will go under or anything
they are not as motivated to create solid products as they could be
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on May 24, 2012, 03:24:28 AM
Beside the desktop version, Windows Server 8 ( renamed to Server 2012 ) comes with the metro interface. Who needs a server operation system consuming more system resources to provide a user interface with a lot of eye-candies?
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on May 24, 2012, 04:59:39 AM
Beside the desktop version, Windows Server 8 ( renamed to Server 2012 ) comes with the metro interface. Who needs a server operation system consuming more system resources to provide a user interface with a lot of eye-candies?

You are correct Vortex, who managing a 2012 Server is going to be using a touch screen to navigate thru administrative settings? Using a mouse on such a system would be difficult and for certain aggravating to say the least!!

I guess what angers me the most is I make part of my living working on Windows user machines and now I’m expected to learn a whole new interface. I’m getting old and I don’t feel much like learning the new metro interface when I have a very good knowledge of Windows up to Win 7. I think MS has lost their minds!!
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on May 24, 2012, 06:15:52 AM
Hi Bill,

We are on the same boat. At work, I am responsible for maintaining the Windows network. It will be not a fun to learn the new metro interface.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: clive on May 26, 2012, 03:00:23 AM
Quote from: Bill Cravener
I guess what angers me the most is I make part of my living working on Windows user machines and now I’m expected to learn a whole new interface. I’m getting old and I don’t feel much like learning the new metro interface when I have a very good knowledge of Windows up to Win 7. I think MS has lost their minds!!

Well there's the thing, people don't like change, especially forced change. Microsoft is going to force people to make a choice, it's a dangerous place to take them, because they might not break in the direction they want.

People are becoming increasingly exposed to other possibilities, be it Apple, Android, Linux, or whatever. Apple represents the biggest single threat, as they have lots of money, and they are positioning themselves for a retail assault.

You as a developer clearly have a reason to feel disenfranchised, and I don't think you're in the minority. You like the consumer, are likely to migrate to a platform/partner who annoys you less. I know a bunch of people who have totally abandoned PC development, and moved full time to app development on phone and tablet platforms.

Intel is also in an awkward spot, they have excellent chips and manufacturing capabilities, but they are wading into a battle against ARM solutions where their size and margins work against them. They have got the Atom into TV's and set top boxes, and are pushing at smart phones, but I think people have become used to the responsiveness of the higher end x86 machines.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: carlos on May 26, 2012, 03:28:23 AM
the problem is - ms can afford to make mistakes - even huge blunders
it's not like they will go under or anything
they are not as motivated to create solid products as they could be

I'm not sure Dave, PS/2 comes to mind .......
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on May 30, 2012, 05:53:51 PM
The new VS Express is apparently limited to metro. Gets rid of the riffraff I suppose...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/28/visual_studio_express_11_metro_only/
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Adamanteus on May 30, 2012, 06:59:11 PM
I'm thinking that main behalf of Win8 CP, that it's time for testing for next year, but bed compatibility with old NTFS systems, so ever fixing good drives with released old Windows. It could be need to whom using only CP for one computer and touch screen systems (is forwarding users needs), and seemed that at all Win8 designed mostly for palmtops with WiFi Internet connections - so who have it could get all behalf from.
For UI, I'm using WindowBlinds (http://stardock.com), and fully satisfied - so Microsoft's researching in interface me at all not interesting - I'm working on desktop (with PS/2 mouse)  :eusa_boohoo:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: xandaz on May 30, 2012, 10:52:29 PM
    I dont really follow this stuff. Wasn't the same said about windows7? That it'd be a fiasco? I tried it once and fell the same thing about it thats mentioned about w8. You'll have to learn a whole lot of new stuff, get in touch with a new way of working, etc. That's why i felt when i intalled 7, so, i use what ever came with the equipment (a looser called vista), tho i have to recognize that w7 is way faster.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on May 31, 2012, 03:40:43 AM
Sad to say but Visual Studio 11 Beta does not support Windows XP. The same also applies for Visual Studio 11 Express Beta.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: hutch-- on May 31, 2012, 10:45:42 AM
Sounds like a good reason to keep the ISO for VC10.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: P1 on May 31, 2012, 01:32:02 PM
Sounds like a good reason to keep the ISO for VC10.  :biggrin:
M$ has always benefited from version changes in their software.   It kinda like gasoline, use it up and buy more for the engine(hardware).

Too bad, we can not get faithfulness discount for buying all the versions they released.

Sad to say, that they would manipulate layers of software to obsolete their other support software.  Can we say M-O-N-O-P-O-L-Y ???

It is basically true, that WXP could offer the basics so well, so as to be useful for a very long time to the average user.

Regards,  P1  8)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: hutch-- on May 31, 2012, 01:57:28 PM
 :biggrin:

I only keep vc98, vc2003, vc2005, vc2008, vc2010 set up, whats the big deal ?  :P
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on May 31, 2012, 02:54:07 PM
i think i have an old copy of MS C compiler v 6 around someplace - lol
and i don't even like C   :biggrin:

i remember you had to build your own lib's, based on which memory models you intended to use vs how much disk space you were willing to give up
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: hutch-- on May 31, 2012, 02:56:47 PM
I doubt that my floppies for MSC V6 still work. It was a very good clean version where everything worked correctly. Then came Windows.  :badgrin:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on May 31, 2012, 03:11:18 PM
i have kept my floppies safe (from wifee - lol) so far
i think they're good - i'd have to fire up one of my old machines to get a floppy drive   :biggrin:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: hutch-- on May 31, 2012, 04:38:33 PM
Mate of mine gave me a USB plugin floppy that works. I used it once for an Intel floppy for a boot sequence install.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on May 31, 2012, 09:48:53 PM
i thought about getting one of those
but - it is old technology - lol
i'd rather spend the money on a thumb drive   :biggrin:
if i want to get something off a floppy, i can blow the dust off one of the win 98 machines
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on May 31, 2012, 10:15:59 PM
$18 for a usb floppy drive here, I got mine a year ago for $29 and have used it 4 or 5 times since.
When you need it it's so convenient, plug it in and away you go. Same with an external dvd drive.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on May 31, 2012, 10:21:23 PM
Morons!

Quote
Despite a growing debate over Metro on desktop PCs, Microsoft doesn't appear to be willing to offer a choice of traditional desktop or Metro with its upcoming Windows 8 release, opting to continue to fuse the pair together.

Microsoft reportedly working to block apps that re-enable the Windows 8 Start button (http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/31/3054348/microsoft-windows-8-start-button-legacy-code-removal)

Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on May 31, 2012, 10:23:52 PM
sounds like a nice place for a little app, Bill   :biggrin:

everything they remove leaves a hole for someone to come along and fill it with dirt
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on May 31, 2012, 10:44:53 PM
I actually got used to the metro bit, mainly because the programs still showed up as "icons".
Click the "icon" and the old-style desktop program starts in the desktop, start menu and all.
Metro is the start menu spread all over the screen. Think of it as your smartphone with 5 home screens, you're OK.

One thing I like is mounting iso files natively. Windows 7 can do vhd files but not iso.
That might convince me to shell out the dollars...
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on May 31, 2012, 11:06:49 PM
The idea of Windows 8 Metro is so nutty and off-the-wall that I’m certain it will never happen without a fall back to the Windows 7 GUI in their next version (Win 9?). My opinion there is just no way that the company will risk its future on an unproven interface metaphor that's based on a cell phone UI. The basic thesis that people want exactly the same look and feel across all their personal platforms is frankly idiotic. All Microsoft will manage to do is kill the platform where Metro does not belong, the desktop PC or Workstation. And that will be the end of Microsoft.  :icon13:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: hutch-- on June 01, 2012, 01:18:59 AM
Perhaps there really is an Apple "mole" in the management end of Microsoft trying to bring the company down. Its common knowledge that the market does not trust Microsoft but still generally support their now legacy operating systems. XP and Win7 are still big players in the desktop market yet they are willing to risk losing their only performing area in a foolish attempt to break into the gadget market.

I guess all of the foolish things they have done will all come home to roost when the next OS version flops like Vista did and more of them go out the door. They have already damaged the home desktop market with irritating registration techniques, forced attempts to make people upgrade software that already works well for them, breaking backwards compatibility and so on where many non technical folks just went to a portable gadget, iPhone and the current generation of Android tablets, all of which are losses to the user base for PCs.

If they keep messing it up we will all be left with some crapheap Linux Distro Windows imitation, gadgets or even worse, an Apple MAC.  :icon13:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on June 01, 2012, 06:06:24 AM
Windows 8 Release Preview ISO images :

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/iso
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Greenhorn on June 01, 2012, 07:19:33 AM
Tiles belong to the toilet. ;o)

Just my two cents ...
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: MichaelW on June 01, 2012, 07:26:00 AM
At one time Microsoft had WFW 3.11, now the're set to release what may come to be known as WFI 8.0  :biggrin: 
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: clive on June 03, 2012, 08:26:39 PM
At one time Microsoft had WFW 3.11, now the're set to release what may come to be known as WFI 8.0  :biggrin:
WTF 8.0
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on June 09, 2012, 04:57:28 AM
Windows 8 Names, Editions, and Features (http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=12433)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: jj2007 on June 09, 2012, 05:44:40 AM
Morons!

Microsoft reportedly working to block apps that re-enable the Windows 8 Start button (http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/31/3054348/microsoft-windows-8-start-button-legacy-code-removal)

On Reddit 797 comments re Thurrott: Microsoft has been furiously ripping out legacy code in Windows (http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ucqya/thurrott_microsoft_has_been_furiously_ripping_out/)

My assumptions are:

a) They have lost control over the pile of ... code called Windows. Best examples are very buggy bread-and-butter controls like RichEd and HtmlHelp - they represent essential 0.001% of Windows but simply don't work as expected.

b) Marketing has been taken over by a bunch of artists who believe they must enter in competition with Apple. What they don't grasp is that the IT World is divided in 90% individuals who want to get a job done (the Windows user base) plus 10% who want to own the funkiest toy around (the Apple user base). M$ will lose the 90% if they don't wake up.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: MichaelW on June 09, 2012, 07:21:59 AM
The technical writers, and members of this and similar forums, who are complaining about Windows 8 are not representative of the mass market that Microsoft is targeting.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Ryan on June 09, 2012, 10:25:22 AM
Someone shared this on a different forum I am in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on June 09, 2012, 12:33:38 PM
that guy has a bunch of similar videos for ubuntu, linux, osx - lol
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on June 09, 2012, 06:48:58 PM
The technical writers, and members of this and similar forums, who are complaining about Windows 8 are not representative of the mass market that Microsoft is targeting.

MichaelW's interpretation reflects the best explanation. The conscientious Windows users are the minority. This is why Windows 8 will be a success too : the major part of the market wants to see an eye-candy operating system.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on June 10, 2012, 04:08:54 AM
Let’s not forget that in the past MS pushed Windows based tablets and they’ve been a total failure. The problem with Window’s 8 is that MS has failed to commit to the tablet as a unique type of device. Think about it, imagine if Apple had done that with the iPad.

It’s as if MS is attempting to fast track their own demise. Recently they've released devices that have simply not lived up to their billing. Zune suffered an early demise as the hardware was killed off in the face of competition from Apple and others. Windows Phone has simply failed. The market share for MS’s flagship devices are so minuscule that they've barely passed Windows Mobile, a platform that Microsoft killed off years ago.

The one thing we Windows users have had really going for us over the years is that no matter how frequently they radically altered the UI the task bar and start menu have always been there. With Windows 8 Microsoft is taking a gamble in an attempt to get a slice of the mobile market where competition is very fierce and profit margins are thin. It is as if Harley Davidson suddenly decided to discontinue its legendary V-Twin engine and began equipping its bikes with hybrid eco friendly engines because going green is the new way. If Harley did so they would not sale!

Windows new OS may work great if most of your computing activities are about updating your status on Facebook, Twitter or checking the weather forecast, but its clear to most that business users, small offices and knowledgeable home and power users, will not rush out to get Windows 8 to run the latest “cool” apps.

Windows 8 is a discombobulated mess of an operating system. It seems like the type of person you know that wants to be everyone's friend, one who claims they can do everything, but in fact does nothing really all that well. It uses big square flat tiles as doors and each takes the user to a new destination. Remember Microsoft’s Bob? Bob was cartoonish in its design and was a big time failure, rejected by consumers from the beginning. I believe Windows 8 faces the same fate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob

Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: jj2007 on June 10, 2012, 04:25:43 AM
Wiki: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob#Reception_and_legacy)
Microsoft employee Raymond Chen wrote in an article that an encrypted copy of Bob was included on Windows XP install CDs to take up space and slow down illegal copies.[18]  Tech journalist Harry McCracken called the story "a delightfully urban legend-y tale" and noted its similarities to an April Fools day joke claiming Bob was hidden in Windows Vista.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on June 19, 2012, 10:11:39 PM
An image of a Microsoft moron!

(http://www.quickersoft.com/pictures/steveballmer.jpg)

Quote
But as it stands, Windows 8 is casting a shadow over CEO Steve Ballmer and the Microsoft team, even if they don’t want to admit it. Will Microsoft find a flashlight before launch or will the company trudge into the dark unknown?
Why Windows 8 could be the next Vista (http://venturebeat.com/2012/06/15/windows-8-vista/#s:screenshot-3)

Also:

Microsoft Dives Head-First Into Mobile Hardware With Two 10.6-Inch Tablets (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/microsoft-dives-head-first-into-mobile-hardware-with-a-pair-of-10-6-inch-tablets/)

Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on June 20, 2012, 01:51:31 AM
he has at least one thing going for him...
...his name isn't Bob   :lol:

oh yah - and probably a huge salary and perks package
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on June 29, 2012, 09:09:35 PM
Microsoft: You Are the Reason Why We Killed the Start Menu (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Start-Button-Start-Menu-Windows-8-Metro-Microsoft,16153.html)

You watch, the average user will be at home with metro because it's just like a phone.
Every non-computer-literate user I know of uses shortcuts on the desktop, not the start menu.

FWIW I have been using the latest win8 and haven't really left the desktop.
If it supported my onboard RAID and audio I would be using it as my main OS.

Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on June 30, 2012, 07:44:57 PM
Quote
Windows 8 is the blind date who is pretty in the red dress but a real bitch outside the bedroom. She's too demanding. She's fussy. She wants you to change to conform to her rather than finding common ground.

Windows 8 is like a bad blind date (http://betanews.com/2012/06/17/windows-8-is-like-a-bad-blind-date/)

Quote
There’s a palpable fear that Windows 8 will stumble out of the door. I’m hearing this from people within Microsoft, from the OEMs and vendors, and from others in and around the industry. The OEMs and vendors feel especially vulnerable, and if Windows 8 does become ‘another Vista’ then there will be an industry-wide bloodbath.

 Final thoughts on Windows 8: A design disaster (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/final-thoughts-on-windows-8-a-design-disaster/20706)


Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: jj2007 on July 04, 2012, 08:25:13 PM
Microsoft will pay you 40$ if you move on to Windows 8 - is that enough??

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/02/upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on July 04, 2012, 11:11:13 PM
for another $200, i will beta test it for them   :P
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on July 06, 2012, 03:57:09 AM
Windows Server 2012 SKUs Revealed :

http://www.winsupersite.com/blog/supersite-blog-39/windows-server/windows-server-2012-skus-revealed-143615
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 10, 2012, 08:28:04 PM
Windows 8 falls further behind Windows 7 in pre-launch stats. (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9228896/Windows_8_falls_further_behind_Windows_7_in_pre_launch_stats)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on July 10, 2012, 09:51:48 PM
Everyone hated Vista and were waiting for the next one. 7 was so so so much better than Vista.
Everyone loves 7 and couldn't care less about the next one. 8 will be the one pre-installed and people will use it.

RTM in August, in the shops in October - we won't have long to wait and see if it is a disaster.
Unless Microsoft can hook into the phone/tablet market Windows 8 will be an ME-worthy failure...

Then again don't forget the sheeple, half the computers I work on are Vista  :badgrin:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on July 10, 2012, 10:10:15 PM
Microsoft will pay you 40$ if you move on to Windows 8 - is that enough??

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/02/upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx
You pay them $40.

In one of the big chains here, if you buy a computer now with win7 you can upgrade to win8 for an extra $15.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: jj2007 on July 11, 2012, 02:23:38 AM
You pay them $40.

Wot?
 :dazzled:  :dazzled:  :dazzled:  :dazzled:  :dazzled:  :dazzled:  :dazzled:  :dazzled:
 :greenclp:  :greenclp:  :greenclp:  :greenclp:  :greenclp:  :greenclp:  :greenclp:  :greenclp:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on July 11, 2012, 09:29:59 AM
That seems to be the truth, Jochen.

Gunther
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 12, 2012, 06:27:56 PM
In my own experience in remembering all the versions of Windows releases over the years I can not remember there being so much dissatisfaction on what Microsoft is doing to their OS as to the soon to be released Windows 8. Ballmer needs to get canned, what a crazy bastard! :dazzled:

Steve Balmer Crazy (http://youtu.be/nKTnQYScpyk)

Windows 8 will be the new Vista? (http://betanews.com/2012/07/11/windows-8-will-be-the-new-vista/)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 12, 2012, 09:04:25 PM
Windows 8's downfall still doesn't give Linux a chance (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/windows-8s-downfall-still-doesnt-give-linux-a-chance/20975)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on July 12, 2012, 09:35:13 PM
An article from a well known Windows basher? Bill, please ::)

One thing I did agree with
Quote
If Windows 8 is going to flop, and Linux isn't going to take its place, what's going to happen? Simple. Exactly what happened when Windows Vista flopped --- the older operating system will take up the slack.
Maybe that's Microsoft's secret agenda, try and make some sort of inroads into the smartphone/tablet/touch market with win8 whilst selling more win7.
With the end of support for XP a lot of companies are upgrading to win7.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 12, 2012, 09:55:18 PM
Well sinsi, everyone’s entitled to their opinion. I think I’ve made mine quite clear. :biggrin:

The one thing that might save Windows 8 on the PC is price. Upgrading to the new OS at just $39.99 even for XP users, that and any new Windows 7 PC purchase can be upgraded to Windows 8 for just $14.99. It’s a move some will say is designed to compete with Apple’s low upgrade pricing but I see it as fear and desperation. Microsoft is beginning to see the writing on the wall but it’s too little too late!
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on July 12, 2012, 10:04:11 PM
Well sinsi, everyone’s entitled to their opinion. I think I’ve made mine quite clear. :biggrin:
:t

I don't disagree with a lot of the negatives, I just don't think it will be as bad as you think it will be.
Would I give up win7 for win8? No, unless I got it for $15.
Like I said, you can ignore the metro stuff by never leaving the desktop. If I had to use win8, no big deal.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: fearless on July 12, 2012, 10:55:18 PM
I read that article on zdnet that bill posted a link to. Makes a good point about compatibility being the most obvious reason computer users will probably opt to stay with a windows os. I think Microsoft had to try and get into the tablet market, and with hindsight it seems logical to see why they wanted to have an os that complimented that. Although pc sales (boxes) seems to be declining, and portable devices increasing (smartphones, tablets, laptops/ultrabooks) i agree that Microsoft seems to have left it a bit too late.

They should have gone with their courier tablet when it was announced a couple of years ago - it might have failed but they would have had a foot in the door to that market, and better information as to what users wanted to make the next venture more successful, or spun it off into a seperate division like the xbox. Win8 seems to trying to be all things to all users, and im not convinced it will be accepted by everyone. New pc buyers will get win8 by default and probably have no choice but to use it. Enterprise customers will stay with win7, and a lot retailers that use older EPOS style console programs wont want to move to win8. Power users & developers may migrate to see what its all about, but id expect most of them to have a dual boot setup or a 2nd machine anyhow.

I think when steam has linux compatible games there may a small shift to linux that may be the catalyst for a lot of migrations in the future.

Anyhows its all interesting to see what happens, im staying with my dual boot winxp/win7 pc for the while, and looking to buy a tablet in the future, probably a google nexus 7 if possible, win8 (desktop of surface tablet) doesnt hold any appeal to me at the moment.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on July 20, 2012, 04:03:14 AM
It’s Official: Windows 8 Arrives October 26, 2012 :

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/official-windows-8-arrives-october-26-2012-143755

Quote
Before then, of course, Microsoft needs to complete Windows 8. The company said previously that it would do so—a process called release to manufacturing (RTM)—by the first week of August.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 21, 2012, 08:21:22 PM
Quote
"I think Windows 8 will make Vista look like a champ," Santa Monica tech pro Luis Levy told me.

Windows 8 in the Enterprise: Why IT pros say no (http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/windows-8-in-the-enterprise-why-it-pros-say-no/6372)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on July 22, 2012, 11:41:31 AM
Windows 8 in the Enterprise: Why IT pros say no (http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/windows-8-in-the-enterprise-why-it-pros-say-no/6372)

Interesting article Bill. It seems to me a bit speculative, but what the heck, we'll see.

Gunther
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Antariy on July 22, 2012, 01:04:04 PM
What about if entire Win8 epopee was developed mostly to force the people buy and upgrade up to Win7? :greensml:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 24, 2012, 07:48:07 PM
Quote
Gartner has two things to say about Microsoft's upcoming operating system. Windows 8 on tablets: "I like this thing." Windows 8 on desktops: "In a word: Bad."
Gartner: Windows 8 for desktop users is, in a word, "bad" (http://www.zdnet.com/gartner-windows-8-for-desktop-users-is-in-a-word-bad-7000001389/)

Quote
On the other side of the coin when you run Windows 8 as a dedicated desktop things fall apart. The MetroUI is not a good fit for larger screens where the tiles simply waste desktop space. Menus that are easy to bring up with the swipe of a finger require a hovering your mouse in an exact spot to bring up on a workstation.
Windows 8 Is Great For Touch, But Bad On The Desktop (http://www.decryptedtech.com/news/windows-8-is-great-for-touch-but-bad-on-the-desktop)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Greenhorn on July 25, 2012, 04:07:42 AM
I would say that Win8 for desktop users is skipware.  :biggrin:


Greenhorn
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 25, 2012, 08:58:18 PM
My opinion is the consumer preview sucks even more than the developer preview. I’ll admit Windows 8's inner guts are perhaps the best MS effort to date but it just doesn’t matter how good it is unless MS gets their act together and releases a professional version suitable for desktops. Microsoft’s Sinofsky/Ballmer and all the Windows 8 defenders on the web are in serious denial if they believe this OS will be successful. MS has entered the tablet market way to late to even matter and competition is too great for MS to think they can ever be profitable in the tablet market. The reality is as my original title of this thread states, “Windows 8 dead on arrival”.

Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on July 25, 2012, 09:58:18 PM
Bill,

The reality is as my original title of this thread states, “Windows 8 dead on arrival”.

that's the truth and nothing else.

Gunther
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: fearless on July 26, 2012, 08:30:27 AM
http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/

Quote
The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People don’t realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior.

We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: mywan on July 26, 2012, 06:26:53 PM
http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/

Quote
The big problem that is holding back Linux is games. People don’t realize how critical games are in driving consumer purchasing behavior.

We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.
Although games play a huge role in holding Linux back it is certainly not the primary cause. If Linux wasn't held back for other reasons it would have a market penetration that would have made the games issue go away long ago. However, Microsoft has been incrementally imposing the same mistakes Linux makes with each new release, in a different way. With Win 8 it's reasonably likely crosses that threshold for many were the mistakes Linux makes no longer matter, because MS is worse (maybe). One thing is certain, Win 8 will increase the market penetration of Linux. Add to that entire nations going strictly Linux and windows has some rough days ahead, along with some hardware vendors that have locked themselves in a copyright hole.

The most destructive assumption GUI developers make is to divide people into 2 groups. The idiot group who needs a help file to click the IE icon to get on the internet, and the advanced group who needs no GUI. The reality is that the public is fractally distributed across this entire spectrum, and all want their differing preferences catered to. I've complete replaced the entirety of windows file associations with a single app, and written a shell script, called 'q', for Linux as a backend for doing the same thing there. This would seem to put me in a reasonably advanced group. So why does Linux suck so freaking much for me? The specific reasons would take an entire book, but here are the basics and why Linux desktops will still have trouble competing with windows 8.

Linux Start Menu:
Why does Linux force a start menu configuration stuck on what the developer of the particular desktop being used decided should be shoved down my throat? Yeah, I can google and figure out where this configuration is, and spend hours making a single modification. But we are talking modifications that should have been two freaking click away for any idiot. That's how idiots progress to advanced users, disallowed in Linux because your either one or the other. Some versions of Linux has a far superior implementation of a start menu on the desktop right click. Only what Exec commands can be placed there have been filtered in weird ways.

Linux Quick Launch:
Just try to add a simple Exec to and icon on the Quick Launch. Yeah, a widget is provided for that, in a limited sort of way. Yet these widgets are themselves resource pigs that eat up your resources whether you ever click the icon or not, and have specialized APIs specific to the particular desktop you have installed. What's wrong with a basic icon with a basic Exec command associated with it? And why must I spend hours hand crafting each and every one!!? TreePad makes a better desktop GUI system than any Linux desktop does! And why must a taskbar be required to wrap onto the quick launch?

Linux File Managers:
At first glance it appears the file manager is a saving grace, a way to get GUI functionality that has been stymied on the desktop, except for a mess of shortcuts (security breaking scripts) on the desktop. You can associate different command line with different Linux file types. But nooo!! As soon as these file managers see command line switches they strip them. Apparently, as is a common claim, GUIs are not supposed to understand command line switches. So the file manager strips these switches and leaves a slew of identical commands lines without switches to reward your effort! Anybody who repeats the myth that GUIs can't understand a command line cannot count themselves outside of the idiot group. There is NO need to understand these switches, merely send them to the app/script/interpreter they are associated with. The mailman doesn't have to be able to read my mail in order to deliver it! The CLI obviously has its share of advantages, but the mailman shouldn't throw my mail away just because they can't read it!

Linux apps (mouse functions):
Take something simple like a basic picture viewer. You can map keyboard shortcuts every which way from Sunday. Yet not only only does it lack basic mouse controls, what it does have is hard coded. So just flipping through a folder of pics to show someone you have to fish that keyboard out from behind the computer. After countless downloads from the app center, I ended up running a windows picture viewer under Wine just to have a basic usable viewer.

One command verses eight clicks.
http://www.flossmanuals.net/command-line/
The above link explains the superiority of one command line to eight mouse clicks. The prototype command was:
"convert -resize 300 profile.jpg profile_small.jpg"
Leaving aside the obvious question of why the GUI developer was thoughtless enough to require 8 clicks, in effect what is being claimed here is that 49 keyboard clicks is superior to 8 mouse clicks. This is not even counting the shift key. Now try and add this same command to a custom right click (or default) of the file manager, two (or one) click away. You end up with the entire command string consisting of "convert". Try again and you get two choices, "convert" and "convert". Makes you wonder who the idiot was that they were trying to make the desktop GUI idiot proof against?

Bottom line is that even windows 8 is probably not this absurd and antagonistic toward a reasonably functional GUI and mouse. The CLI must remain, and will always offer a range of options beyond what any single GUI can ever provide. However, to demand, on the grounds that the CLI has certain advantages, that GUIs not be allowed access, or admit to users that it actually does have access, to the CLI is absurd beyond belief. Oh, but the final admission, in the above article, that it does have access was just provided as another reason to click the keyboard 49 times instead of a mouse eight times, or even twice if they admitted the eight was an issue created by the developer, not the GUI.

It doesn't take an idiot to prefer click, click, done, to several hours of hand crafting config files, no matter how proficient you are at it.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on July 27, 2012, 04:27:05 AM
Quote
And what should worry Redmond a great deal more than some journo like me remarking upon this is the way that at least one fund manager has sold his stock in the company as a result of his confusion over their plans.
Is Windows 8 Going To Kill Microsoft? (http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/07/26/is-windows-8-going-to-kill-microsoft/)

Quote
When the Windows 8 OS does hit our desktops, the bet here is that it will be received with a whisper and not a bang. . .Ultimately it looks like Windows 8 is going to fail because it is trying to be everything to everyone.
Windows 8 has too many devices not enough depth (http://www.examiner.com/article/windows-8-has-too-many-devices-not-enough-depth)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: hutch-- on July 27, 2012, 11:00:31 AM
There is a reasonably simple approach to applications that have to be used by people of different skill levels, make the app a dual interface. In part its reasonably easy to do with both menus and toolbars as you can turn on and off any parts you like. Now this allows you to cater for two classes of end user, the SAVVY user and the NORMAL user.

Give the savvy user all of the bells and whistles needed to use to use the app to its full extent then have a simplified version for users who don't need or don't understand the more complex issues in using the app.

One of the serious mistakes that many vendors use is to reduce the use of an application down to the lowest common denominator, it pisses off the experienced user and often the ordinary user gets no benefit from the reductionism involved. Windows interface design over time has gone this way over time and at their expense as more and more people look for alternatives to a buggy and insecure PC at home, this among other things has led top the rise of gadgets like iPhones, Tablets and the like.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: mywan on July 27, 2012, 01:03:09 PM
Even in the event you have an ordinary user who knows nothing whatsoever about the features there is still long process of cool discoveries that is taken away from them when you assume ignorance is permanent, and only providing the lowest common denominator tends to enforce that permanence. I perfectly well intend to stay ignorant about a lot of things, but if a situation should come up to change my mind I certainly don't want to be treated like I'm too dumb to learn, or forced into learning more than my needs require. Life is too short for that. Nor am I giving up the tool bar with a 1 click save button just because my keyboard has ctrl-s.

My brother programs PLCs all day, but if his home computer wants him to fish out his keyboard to zoom in on a picture he's not interested. I'm the same way. The mantra "learn the CLI, learn the CLI" is bs. I know the CLI and your still not going to make me fish out my keyboard just because some GUI developer thought they were too elite to include reasonable mouse functions.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Ryan on July 30, 2012, 01:48:11 AM
Windows 8 upgrade offer down to $14.99.

https://windowsupgradeoffer.com/en-US/Home/ProgramInfo
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 01, 2012, 06:02:12 AM
And yet another reason Windows 8 will fail. :icon13:

Quote
The new Windows 8 Wedge mouse and keyboard seem innovative and well engineered, but the real news is that they will be necessary add-ons for some Windows 8 tablets, especially when the tablets are used for traditional business applications.
Touch-centric Windows 8 without mouse and keyboard leaves a lot behind (http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/81119)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on August 02, 2012, 04:06:39 AM
Microsoft Finishes Windows 8 :

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/microsoft-finishes-windows-8-143891

Microsoft Releases Windows Server 2012 To Manufacturing :

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/microsoft-releases-windows-server-2012-manufacturing-143893
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 02, 2012, 04:34:40 AM
Quote
“A short while ago we started releasing Windows 8 to PC OEM and manufacturing partners,”

WHOOPEE!! :icon13:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 02, 2012, 08:42:30 PM
Quote
Personally I smell a rat. I love the idea of producing a single software product that can cross boundaries. But I doubt that Doze 8 is the one. Head for the hills. Doze 8 is soon to be upon us.

Windows 8 – Well I Am Scared (http://www.bloggernews.net/128382)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on August 03, 2012, 03:24:59 AM
I wonder if they will provide a trial version for Windows 8.

Windows 7 Enterprise Trial :

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/cc442495.aspx
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 04, 2012, 10:21:21 PM
Oops, Windows 8 begins its slide downward already. That’s got to hurt!

Exclusive: Microsoft's Metro branding to be replaced 'this week' according to internal memo (http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/2/3216545/microsoft-metro-branding-memo-european-partner)

Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on August 04, 2012, 11:10:10 PM
Some company in Germany is complaining about "Metro", so Windows 8 is dead? Bill, please  :lol:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-8-Windows-Phone-Metro-Trademark-Infringement,16606.html
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on August 04, 2012, 11:25:53 PM
In a ZDNet article (http://www.zdnet.com/is-metro-now-a-banned-word-at-microsoft-7000002052/), one of the comments was interesting, talking about MS forcing .net on the world.
Quote
Vista was the ill timed response to .NET performance issues which left most of the Longhorn development on the drawing board.
.net on XP is a laugh, especially .net 4 and its update that doesn't work.
 
Quote
WinRT is what .NET was supposed to be and not just a Web Development Framework
"Computers are really fast now so our bloated layer of obscurity is also faster, relatively speaking," said a Microsoft spokesperson.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 05, 2012, 12:06:20 AM
Some company in Germany is complaining about "Metro", so Windows 8 is dead? Bill, please  :lol:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-8-Windows-Phone-Metro-Trademark-Infringement,16606.html

sinsi, come on buddy can’t a fellow have a little fun? :biggrin:

But hey, the way I see it, it’s a bad oman! :badgrin:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on August 05, 2012, 12:20:05 AM
 :biggrin:

I will let you know the first computer I work on where the customer has win8. Shouldn't take long. Look at Vista.

>come on buddy can’t a fellow have a little fun?
and vice-versa? I should look around and find some positive blogs but I don't have that sort of time  :badgrin:

My opinion is that it will bomb, but not as bad as you seem to think
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 05, 2012, 02:46:13 AM
Quote
From buttons to widgets to menus, all traces of the 3D richness that began with Windows XP, was transformed with Vista and finally perfected in Windows 7, have been erased from the UI. Transparency, too, has been given the heave-ho in favor of a return to the crayons and finger paint look of Windows XP Luna. It's like someone attached a digital hose to the side of every Windows 8 PC and sucked all of the the visual dynamism and character out of the user experience.
Windows 8 looks like it was designed by a bunch of two year-olds wired from watching too much Barney (http://betanews.com/2012/08/03/windows-8-looks-like-it-was-designed-by-a-bunch-of-two-year-olds-wired-from-watching-too-much-barney/)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 15, 2012, 10:36:16 PM
Quote
A desktop OS for tablets and a tablet OS for desktops, Windows 8 is guaranteed to disappoint nearly everyone
Windows 8 review: Yes, it's that bad (http://www.infoworld.com/d/microsoft-windows/windows-8-review-yes-its-bad-200113#disqus_thread)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 18, 2012, 01:50:51 AM
Quote
Oh sure, Windows 8 does boot faster and it has a few new features, but generally speaking Windows 8 with its “not Metro” interface is junk.
Windows 8 belongs on older PCs like a fish needs a bicycle (http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-belongs-on-older-pcs-like-a-fish-needs-a-bicycle-7000002747/)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 21, 2012, 08:47:28 PM
Quote
Metro is just fine on a tablet. Metro is very nice on a smartphone, as long as you don't have a ton of apps. But Metro never, ever belonged on a desktop or laptop screen. No way. Uh-uh. What were you thinking?
Please, Microsoft, for the love of Windows (http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft-windows/please-microsoft-the-love-of-windows-200361)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Tedd on August 23, 2012, 11:23:12 PM
Another article on the bad decisions of Windows 8? Really, I'm not sure I'm convinced - please post more ::)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vozzie on August 24, 2012, 01:17:24 AM
I just hope there are touch capabilities in the W8 command prompt...
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 24, 2012, 04:01:09 AM
Another article on the bad decisions of Windows 8? Really, I'm not sure I'm convinced - please post more ::)

Ok!

Quote
It is perhaps awful luck that the "8" in "Windows 8" rhymes so easily and naturally with "hate," as so many early reviews and predictions have been dubious of the split-screen nature of the operating system.

Will customers appreciate Windows 8 more than the so-called "experts" and "pundits"? Microsoft has two months of praying and finger-crossing before it finds out.
Windows 8 Problems? Usability Experts, Tech Pundits Question Microsoft's Upcoming Operating System (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/22/windows-8-problems_n_1821911.html?ir=Technology)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Tedd on August 25, 2012, 12:23:40 AM
Yay.

Seriously though, it's starting to get old. Sure, if I don't like it, don't look. But first, a little advice on making a point: once you've made your point, shut up. If you've done it successfully, you don't need to say more. If you continue like a raving lunatic, not only is no-one going to take notice, they will oppose your view on the principle that it's held by a madman and therefore clearly nonsense.

Now for a dose of reality. Most technical users hate it - initially because they hate change, regardless of whether it's good change or bad change. We like things a certain way, we've invested effort in working with them that way, and it's trouble to change. As for non-technical users (the majority of the consumer public), they like shiny. That's not to say they'll be queuing outside stores to get their hands on the amazing windows 8 "now with even more shininess," but when it comes to replacing their old PC, they'll take whatever it comes with. And they will put up with all of the awkwardness and design flaws, because that's what they've always done - rebooting every time you change a setting, random blue screens and error messages, freezing for no reason, progressively getting slower with a build up of crud... But it's new, so it must be better.

Obviously the start screen was designed with tablets in mind, and they decided to push a more uniform interface across all devices. Was that a good decision? Maybe not. Will it bring about the end of windows domination and the downfall of microsoft? Probably not.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 25, 2012, 01:54:06 AM
Yay.

Seriously though, it's starting to get old.

Ok!

Quote
There's so much wrong with Windows 8 usability that a brief column like this can't even begin to address it in detail, so I'll just say that I think Microsoft's ham-handed attempt to force tablet and especially PC users to work within the limited screen space available on smartphone displays is destined to fail.
Windows 8 will be another disaster for Microsoft (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/2200879/windows-8-will-be-another-disaster-for-microsoft)

Quote
Given the huge user interface changes that Microsoft has forced onto users in Windows 8, I'd expected that the Redmond giant would have tried to ease the pain with a comprehensive tutorial. I was wrong.
The Windows 8 'tutorial' is a joke (http://www.zdnet.com/the-windows-8-tutorial-is-a-joke-7000003012/)


__________________________________________________

Tomato.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on August 27, 2012, 12:16:06 AM
The Windows 8 'tutorial' is a joke (http://www.zdnet.com/the-windows-8-tutorial-is-a-joke-7000003012/)

Good article, Bill. Thank you.  :t
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 27, 2012, 07:18:50 PM
Hi Gunther, :biggrin:

I think Microsoft has finally lost their minds with the mess called Windows 8. Hell they don’t even really know what to call their new OS since they lost the rights to use the name Metro. Ballmer's a damn fool!
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on August 27, 2012, 08:19:13 PM
Could Microsoft be trying to take down negative Windows 8 stories?

Microsoft censors site criticizing Windows 8 tile UI (http://betanews.com/2012/08/23/microsoft-censors-site-criticizing-windows-8-tile-ui/)

Thanks for the DMCA takedown order, Microsoft! (http://betanews.com/2012/08/23/thanks-for-the-dmca-takedown-order-microsoft/)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on September 01, 2012, 07:24:38 PM
Quote
In the last few days, a multitude of online publications have been handed DMCA takedown notices for seemingly innocuous posts, triggering speculation that Microsoft is trying to censor negative comments prior to Windows 8's official launch.
Microsoft's DMCA takedown blitz smells of Windows 8 censorship (http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/81316)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on September 01, 2012, 07:42:18 PM
I would think more along the lines of this
Quote
I have a sneaking suspicion that this whole situation was brought on by some sort of third-party service or bot
Just ask youtube about automated takedowns.
I really can't see MS stopping talk of win8, it's all over the web.

Anyway, I've been using the latest win8 from Vortex's link (even though I'm not a registered dev or even an MSDN subscriber).
Just as before, stick to the desktop (forget apps) and all is OK. My games work, my attempts at asm still work. Faster than win7 on my hardware.
Bring it on!
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on September 02, 2012, 01:58:28 AM
Hi sinsi,

Anyway, I've been using the latest win8 from Vortex's link (even though I'm not a registered dev or even an MSDN subscriber).
Just as before, stick to the desktop (forget apps) and all is OK. My games work, my attempts at asm still work. Faster than win7 on my hardware.
Bring it on!

yes, we'll see what it'll bring to us. But don't forget: Not all what glitters is gold.

Gunther
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on September 08, 2012, 04:39:44 AM
Quote
It won’t work because you can’t takeover mobile by hobbling the desktop. By adopting a common code base for both desktops and mobile all Microsoft is doing is compromising both.  This is not good but I’m fairly confident it will also be shortly reversed.
Windows 8 suffers from the Microsoft Bob effect (http://betanews.com/2012/08/31/windows-8-suffers-from-the-microsoft-bob-effect/)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on September 08, 2012, 09:04:28 PM
Hi Bill,

Quote
It won’t work because you can’t takeover mobile by hobbling the desktop. By adopting a common code base for both desktops and mobile all Microsoft is doing is compromising both.  This is not good but I’m fairly confident it will also be shortly reversed.
Windows 8 suffers from the Microsoft Bob effect (http://betanews.com/2012/08/31/windows-8-suffers-from-the-microsoft-bob-effect/)

interesting article.
Quote
Microsoft is simply trying to change too many things at once.

It seems to me that this is true.

Gunther
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on September 17, 2012, 06:33:10 AM
Quote
Two and a half decades is a long time to lead any segment of the enterprise technology business. Is the clock running out for Microsoft?
The Windows 8 Doomsday Scenario (http://www.computerworld.in/news/windows-8-doomsday-scenario-27842012)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CodeDog on September 17, 2012, 05:23:31 PM
An operating system is supposed to make the computer work, bind it together. Microsoft go far beyond that, they put in this crappy metro "snacky" looking thing and consume system resources to the greatest of their abilities.

Operating systems should always strive to use less system resources, but microsoft keeps pushing the consumption as hardware innovation push forward. It's like a parasite. OS should go backwards, consume less resources, hardware innovation should go forwards (offer more resources).

Even I could create a better ui than the metro, and in just a week I would do it better myself. Metro have got to be an idea of Frank, the average guy at microsoft. "Wrap up some beauty, to hell with the technical innovation, just put up a few gradients and we got ourself a new user interface, VOILA, it's the work of a genius. You can see the gradient all the way from top to bottom and right in the middle of it a square big button that you can click, this is microsoft's innovation in 2012, and its so damn advanced that we are going to call it METRO....., LOOK, we got ourself a gradient menu here with big square buttons in the middle of it, this is the fucking future people"

Operating systems are becoming more like movies.  They seem to want less things appear on screen at any given time. Like some sort of a book.

Btw, every second release of windows always fails, it has been like that for decades, it would be an anomaly if windows 8 didn't also fail.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on September 19, 2012, 12:22:49 AM
Quote
I'm no Windows 8 fan, but I thought Windows 8 tablets had a shot of making it. But, $600 for an ARM tablet? $800 for an Atom-powered tablet!? If the prices we're seeing are accurate, these are dead tablets walking.
Windows 8 Tablets: Born to fail (http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-tablets-born-to-fail-7000004389/)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: anta40 on September 19, 2012, 02:29:30 AM
Quote
I'm no Windows 8 fan, but I thought Windows 8 tablets had a shot of making it. But, $600 for an ARM tablet? $800 for an Atom-powered tablet!? If the prices we're seeing are accurate, these are dead tablets walking.
Windows 8 Tablets: Born to fail (http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-tablets-born-to-fail-7000004389/)

And the core-i powered tablet could cost you $1000
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Surface-Price-Release-Specs-Windows-8-Tablet,16110.html

Ouch...
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vozzie on September 19, 2012, 05:40:51 AM
I will reply what a Microsoft Evangelist told me a couple of weeks ago when we were complaining about the lost capabilities of Phone compared to Windows Mobile,...

"You can always use android."

That's the arrogance that developers have to deal with when using windows... Windows 8 is not worse then Windows Phone when comparing to earlier versions, but it's obvious that MS pushes users to use the new gui... more is, microsoft doesn't care that there's a whole business world using ms products who are used with gui's that evolved thru the last 20+ years. Now you have to cope with it, or go for another OS,...

Times changed and the most users AREN'T business users anymore... So they want a share of this market,...

The biggest W8 flaws in my point of view are that if you buy a desktop you have to deal with (or tweak) the new gui style that's not mouse and keyboard friendly,... Add to it that the ms person also told us that both environments(old desktop, new metro) are like 2 seperate operatings systems who can not communicate with eachother! (i don't know to what level this is true)...

conclussion, when you have a monopoly, you can be arrogant (only that arrogance didn't show in the ms phone marketshare,... )

Windows Phone: no access to the file system, no native code, no good bluetooth API, your application goes into "zombie" state when not having focus, no SD card, no hardware key API(and limitations),...

So you buy the hotest new phone but when you take a picture you can't send it to a 8 year old Windows Mobile that supports bluetooth, LOL,...

update: http://distrowatch.com/
update: I always remark when somebody points to my screen it isn't a touch screen,... Certainly after lunch,...
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on October 04, 2012, 12:58:59 AM
Windows 8 is doomed to fail !!

Windows 8 Fails to Gain Ground (http://www.i-programmer.info/news/177-windows-8/4882-windows-8-fails-to-gain-ground.html)

Poor pre-launch showing plagues Windows 8 (http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010981/poor-pre-launch-showing-plagues-windows-8.html)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CodeDog on October 04, 2012, 01:28:12 AM
If you look at the statistics of windows:

Windows 3.1x (1992) - Good
Windows 95 (1995) - sucked
Windows 98 (1998) - Good
Windows ME (2000) - Sucked
Windows XP (2001) - Good
Windows Vista (2006) Sucked
Windows 7 (2009) - Good
Windows 8 (2012) - what will happen here  :lol:


I think the bottom line is.... A success is likely to be followed by an experiment. Experiments often fail. "Ah, I did good, let's try something new next time.... Fuck we failed, let's go back again.."

Ancient wisdom says "Why change something if it works"

A problem is, if users aren't entirely satisfied with the new user interface of windows 8, maybe partially satisfied, they will get used to it either way and will not want to see the old system come back, so they will probably revise it to become better yet again. I have to admit I don't like the new "metro" thing. It is beautiful to an artist but it is annoying to a technician like myself. I want my operating system to have many things appear on the screen, not some blue frame with a thousand pixel buttons. I think efficiency is lost.

Let me give an example of a detail microsoft have overlooked. The new metro covers the entire screen and you cant automatically see what is on your desktop, what is popping up on the taskbar, maybe you have a calculator open and you need to peek at some number while you use the start menu to find your program. In the new metro thing you just lose details. Let's say you have a notepad open, you want to be able to see the damn notepad while you do other things, you are consuming information from different sources, our brain multitask also, we can't have a damn blue menu covering the entire screen, its not efficient. In fact it is old fashional and the idea reminds me of Steve Jobs where everything is grouped into gadgets because people aren't able to consume too much information at the same time.

They could have revised the old start button one more time, i'm sure there are better ways to do it. I can't think of one now but i'm sure there are other ways.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on October 04, 2012, 08:38:07 AM
Hi CodeDog,

Windows 3.1x (1992) - Good
Windows 95 (1995) - sucked
Windows 98 (1998) - Good
Windows ME (2000) - Sucked
Windows XP (2001) - Good
Windows Vista (2006) Sucked
Windows 7 (2009) - Good
Windows 8 (2012) - what will happen here  :lol:

interesting list, but you did forget Windows 2000. That was before Win XP. Do you remember?

Gunther
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CodeDog on October 04, 2012, 06:27:44 PM
I remember, I used the pro edition myself and is probably the single OS that I enjoyed most in the line before xp.  :P
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on November 20, 2012, 11:26:36 PM
Quote
User interface design guru Jakob Nielsen is none too pleased with what he's found in Windows 8, which he calls a "misguided" product.

Design guru Nielsen: Windows 8 UI 'smothers usability' (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57551670-75/design-guru-nielsen-windows-8-ui-smothers-usability/)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on November 20, 2012, 11:31:02 PM
Quote
It seems that computer sellers expected more from Windows 8 earlier this year, but have since rethought, said White.

Windows 8 PC orders weak, says analyst (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9233830/Windows_8_PC_orders_weak_says_analyst)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on November 20, 2012, 11:58:02 PM
Well, I have had two jobs in the past week about win8.
First one upgraded, didn't like it and tried to go back to vista. Bad move but I got it going.

Second one upgraded, thought something was wrong - "where's the start button"  :biggrin:
After getting a crash course in win8 from me (the "expert") he was willing to give it a go.
I did show him how to revert to win7 though  :lol:
Interestingly, he said they got a demo of win8 in the store on a huge touchscreen. That motivated him to buy the upgrade.
On a laptop I guess it's not so flash.

There is talk of Microsoft bringing back the start button now that the Windows head is gone...
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on November 21, 2012, 12:08:46 AM
it might be ok on a small device with a touch screen
you'd have to be objective and give it a chance, i suppose

not for me - i am still learning XP   :P
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CommonTater on November 21, 2012, 12:36:47 AM
There is talk of Microsoft bringing back the start button now that the Windows head is gone...

The start button is not gone... merely disabled.

A simple registry tweak gets it back easily enough:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\RPEnabled  = 0

Restart the system, skip the tiles with the windows key... use it like Win7.

Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CommonTater on November 21, 2012, 12:53:37 AM
it might be ok on a small device with a touch screen
you'd have to be objective and give it a chance, i suppose

Hi Dave...

Indeed ... it certainly seems Microsoft is fixated on tablets.   

Quote
not for me - i am still learning XP   :P

LOL... thanks for reminding me of one of my favorite programming stories...

I'd been hanging about on a programming forum for a while and noticed this one guy always asking questions like "How do I change folders" or "How can I set the window size".  OK legitimate questions for a budding programmer to ask since these are things we all do in our code.  But, after a while I noticed that he always thanked the person who provided the "smart ass" answer like "Well you take the mouse and...."  All the people giving him code snippets never got any reply at all.  Then one day this guy writes me a PM asking how I know all this stuff about computers. I writes back and tells him that it's simple curiosity. We went back and forth a couple of times with me explaining things like simply scanning menus and opening setup dialogs to see what's there, all this time this guy is insisting that he's in a programming course to learn C++ ... So finally the end of my patience was reached and I wrote back: "How the he** do you plan to program a computer you're too scared to operate?" ... Oddly enough, I never heard from him again.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on November 21, 2012, 01:20:39 AM
>A simple registry tweak gets it back easily enough
Works in the retail version? That registry value seems to have disappeared in the consumer preview.

I will bite the bullet next week and buy it, I am only going to get more jobs out of it.
Go the whole hog and only use win8, see how gaming and programming go eh?
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CommonTater on November 21, 2012, 01:42:43 AM
>A simple registry tweak gets it back easily enough
Works in the retail version? That registry value seems to have disappeared in the consumer preview.

If it's not there just add it... It's a standard DWORD value.

I once saw an estimate that only about 70% of windows settings appear in the registry by default.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Greenhorn on November 21, 2012, 04:24:06 AM
>A simple registry tweak gets it back easily enough
Works in the retail version? That registry value seems to have disappeared in the consumer preview.

If it's not there just add it... It's a standard DWORD value.

I once saw an estimate that only about 70% of windows settings appear in the registry by default.
If I remember correctly, this value effects nothing since the CP version.

Maybe under the hood they've added some good features and improvements.
But this wishy-washy UI concept makes me sick. Even with the mouse it is just trash. And ugly, too.

So, for me personally Win8 is "skipware".

Jakob Nielsen claims "Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html)"
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: P1 on November 21, 2012, 11:59:00 AM
Find it almost ironic to desperation that, M$ is trying to kill off the last of XP in favor of W8.

Anyone for side by side comparison ???

Shell 5.X code was complete to do most anything.

Regards,  P1   8)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CommonTater on November 21, 2012, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from a friend of mine who's made the leap...

"The only thing Windows 8 gives me that Win7 did not is a headache."
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: jj2007 on November 22, 2012, 05:46:31 PM
Interestingly enough, you can still convince Win8 to think it's XP (http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/install-windows-xp-in-windows-8-client-hyper-v/6732) ;-)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on November 22, 2012, 10:45:48 PM
that's a little like putting a chevy 350 engine in a rolls royce so you can work on it   :P
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: hutch-- on November 23, 2012, 12:49:57 AM
Or worse, putting a Rolls Royce V8 into an old Chevy.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on November 23, 2012, 11:47:29 AM
vrooom - lol
rolls engines are a thing of beauty
i think if i had one, it would be a show-piece, never to be fired up

i have never been much on fancy cars, really, even though i have had a few caddys
a while back, i had a 78 chevy impala with about 60,000 miles on it
straight-6, 3-speed auto, power steering/brakes, AC
easy to work on and reliable - i was perfectly happy with that car   :P

Z likes her mercedes   ::)
i think for Brits, even moreso than for Yanks, a car is a big social statement
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: K_F on November 23, 2012, 04:44:58 PM
i think for Brits, even moreso than for Yanks, a car is a big social statement
That is a BIG .. understatement !!  :biggrin:

I think I might have mentioned this before..
Both my kids go to a private school which costs big $$$, the eldest is finished. Luckily for us they both obtained scholarships otherwise they simply wouldn't be there.
The most amusing thing I enjoy of the school is when I pick up the kids. It's a Who's Who of who owns the latest, biggest and most expensive car, a kind of $$ snobbery if you wish.
I drive a 10yr old car which is about half (or 1/3) the size of these cars. The looks people give each other.  :P

My eldest said that he always felt as if he was the poorest kid in the school. Mom and I said to him - Well, over the five years of high school we saved on the scholarships, such that we can afford to send you for pilot training all the way to Commercial rating - where are your class mates now?. Maybe the poorest, but we sure use our money wisely and efficiently. Also just because they drive (or have) expensive things don't think they own them - in most cases these people are in debt up to their necks and the bank owns what they drive (or have). True rich people do not show off their money ;)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on November 28, 2012, 08:28:58 PM
Quote
If Windows 8 sales don’t improve soon, Microsoft might have to pull a Coke and cut its losses on its radically reengineered OS.

Windows 8 Fizzling, Time For Windows Classic? (http://www.informationweek.com/windows/operating-systems/windows-8-fizzling-time-for-windows-clas/240142618)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on November 28, 2012, 08:53:05 PM
Quote
If Windows 8 sales don’t improve soon, Microsoft might have to pull a Coke and cut its losses on its radically reengineered OS.

Windows 8 Fizzling, Time For Windows Classic? (http://www.informationweek.com/windows/operating-systems/windows-8-fizzling-time-for-windows-clas/240142618)


Yes, it's time.

Gunther
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CommonTater on November 28, 2012, 09:17:35 PM
Microsoft could enjoy a huge upswing in sales... and they already have all the bits and pieces they need.

1) Produce a small core OS... no web browsers,  no dvd burners, no voice recognition and especially not 5,000 drivers nobody ever uses... nothing that's not absolutely essential to booting the thing up and running applications.

2)  Beyond that *everything* is an application.

3) On installation the user is given a choice of UIs ... Desktop, Metro, etc.

4) Now the user can (optionally) go to microsofts's store sight and download what they need, paying as they go or opt for other choices over the net.


IMO... what we are seeing here is the continuation of the same mistake as they made with "Plug and Play"... trying to be all things to all people.  In reality they're simply treating their customers like idiots and distributing a huge payload of stuff that never gets run by anyone.

Bought a new printer... Go and download the drivers.
Added a new usb gadget... yep, get the driver off the net.
Changed your video card... uh, huh, go and get the driver.

Maybe it's time for "Windows Basics".
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on November 29, 2012, 05:30:56 AM
Hi CommonTater,

The small core OS sounds like an interesting idea. You are probably thinking something similar to the Linux kernel.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: P1 on November 29, 2012, 06:15:30 AM
One way to save W8, announce W8 nows supports all WXP apps !!!

Regards,  P1
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on November 29, 2012, 06:25:51 AM
my older sister just bought a laptop
her options were windows 8 and windows 8
THAT'S how you increase sales

i am not so "nice"   :badgrin:
i would have told the salesman, "either give it to me with windows 7, or i'll buy it elsewhere"
bang ! - "oh, yah, we have one"
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CommonTater on November 29, 2012, 07:32:45 AM
Hi CommonTater,

The small core OS sounds like an interesting idea. You are probably thinking something similar to the Linux kernel.

In a way, yes... Strip it down to bare essentials... kernel, API, basic desktop... Charge $49.00 for it.
Everything else is an option.

Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on November 29, 2012, 07:47:28 AM
they'd lose a lot of money, that way
people would....
Everything else is 3rd party
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CommonTater on November 29, 2012, 08:26:12 AM
they'd lose a lot of money, that way
people would....
Everything else is 3rd party

I'd bet not... If it came up first time with a "store" appy that let people download IE, Office, Speech Recognition etc. at a reasonable price, I'm betting half the world would put in their credit card numbers and do the downloads.

Also, I'd bet real money that with an OS at a reasonable price, piracy would be cut in at least half, which would likely mean 5 times as many people would be paying for their software.

Also nothing stops them from still offering Win7 and Win8 as turnkey systems...  I'm just suggesting a very reasonable alternative for IT departments (who are notoriously slow to upgrade) and Power users who've been crabbing about bloat for a long time.  In fact the latter group have gotten to the point of writing such gems as NLite and VLite for the exact purposes of ripping all the crap out of the OS.



Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: shankle on November 30, 2012, 01:30:11 AM
From my reading Nlite and Vlite doesn't work on Windows 7.
If you already have the OS installed what does Nlite/Vlite
do for you then?
Microsoft used to have upgrades for around $30. Which I thought
was fair and reasonable. Now we get this bloated thing with 50
languages of which 49 will never be used. Back in those days
you had the option to install each item presented or not.
My example is just one of the many things that I would like to get rid of.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: CommonTater on November 30, 2012, 08:14:07 AM
From my reading Nlite and Vlite doesn't work on Windows 7.
If you already have the OS installed what does Nlite/Vlite
do for you then?

Nlite and Vlite are install builders... they let you leave stuff out at install time... they're not for installed systems.



Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on December 10, 2012, 10:15:56 PM
Microsoft Ads Are Everywhere, But They're Not Selling Windows (http://adage.com/article/digital/microsoft-ads-selling-windows/238686/)

Microsoft’s astonishing Windows 8 boondoggle (http://tabtimes.com/analysis/ittech-os-windows/2012/12/07/microsoft-astonishing-windows-8-boondoggle)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on December 10, 2012, 10:31:57 PM
windows 8 is a total piece of crap - lol
and - they want to charge you twice as much for it

it seemed they were doing pretty well with win 7
their marketing people are a bunch of dumbtards
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on December 18, 2012, 07:59:14 PM
I have been using Windows 8 Pro for about three weeks now, all of my games work OK, programming (masm32/fasm) is OK, no real problems yet.
The only time I spend in the 'metro' screen is when I login, click the only tile on the screen (Desktop) and don't leave it.
Except that winkey then typing takes you there, just like win7 except full screen, and it's a hell of a lot faster.

Bought a new SSD (Samsung 840 Pro), 128GB for $150, and it's quicker than my old setup (Intel 520 SSD, Win7).
Now I will see how quickly masm32 installs...

>windows 8 is a total piece of crap - lol
So how long have you been using it then?
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on December 18, 2012, 09:12:48 PM
i don't need to use it to see it for what it is

microsoft wants to rape people for more money than they need to have
they come out with a "product" that noone needs or wants
they jack up the price, then jam it down your throat
it serves to offer programmers another layer of compatibility issues
that's a piece of crap
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on December 19, 2012, 07:05:32 AM
Hi sinsi,

You know I’m far from sold on Win8 but I just bought me a big screen 60 inch LED TV and a new PC with Win8 Pro on it for my Christmas present (rather expensive though but awesome!! :biggrin:).

The Win8 Pro machine is now hooked up to my new big screen to watch TV shows and movies thru Hulu.com on my broadband connection (don’t know if you guys have access to Hulu down under).

Anyway, with the Hulu app installed you simply click on the tile and bang there you are ready to choose a show then sit back and enjoy. I use a cordless keyboard and mouse to navigate. As I see it Win8 is great for that purpose but as to using it on a desktop on a regular bases I’m still not convinced and think I would find it annoying to have to switch to the desktop from metro and back (what are they calling it since MS no longer has the rights to use the word metro?).

Another great site by the way for movies is Crackle.com, you might have access to that site down under as well. Time will tell if I’m ever convinced that Win8 is worth it for use other then for driving a TV (I doubt it).
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on December 19, 2012, 07:23:44 AM
to be fair, i would have to give it a chance
see how it fares with consumers over time
but - i think it's just a way for microsoft to gouge the public
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on December 20, 2012, 04:48:16 PM
G'day Bill, like I said I get to the desktop and don't leave it. Since I never really used the start menu I don't miss it.
All of my programs have a shortcut on the desktop, just like win7. Pressing the windows key takes me to the start menu, just like win7 (except it's full screen).

Fair enough, I only bought it because I am getting calls about it in my job but it's not the big bad thing people make it out to be.
If not for my job I probably wouldn't have got it ($148 for OEM), but if I got it preinstalled on a new computer then BFD.

Hulu? Half the embedded videos on pages I look at have "sorry you're not in the US".
How much money is the network showing Jon Stewart losing if I see the 2 minute video clip? Must be up in the nanocent range...
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on December 20, 2012, 10:05:52 PM
sinsi,

Hulu eliminates the need to have a satellite dish, cable or even a ground antenna for movies and TV programming. Crackle is mostly movies. I do have a large antenna in the attic that gets me 30 some stations in high def. Hulu also has a free service that gets you most of their available programming but they do offer a “Plus” plan if you want to pay $8 bucks a month. These internet driven TV providers are putting a big hurt on satellite and cable services that charge way over the top for what they offer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulu
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: dedndave on December 20, 2012, 10:26:16 PM
i think both crackle and hulu are more-or-less US-only sites
it's part of the agreement they have with the movie companies in order to show their flicks
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Vortex on December 23, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
Short Battery Life Sinks First Windows 8 Notebooks (http://blog.laptopmag.com/short-battery-life-sinks-first-windows-8-notebooks)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on December 23, 2012, 10:34:30 PM
Hi Vortex,

Short Battery Life Sinks First Windows 8 Notebooks (http://blog.laptopmag.com/short-battery-life-sinks-first-windows-8-notebooks)

but on one's honour: that's not a real surprise.

Gunther
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on December 26, 2012, 03:00:37 PM
Short Battery Life Sinks First Windows 8 Notebooks (http://blog.laptopmag.com/short-battery-life-sinks-first-windows-8-notebooks)
I must agree with a lot of the comments on that article, misleading 'stats' and bad graphs.
After 6+ hours, I think a 20 minute difference is no big deal. Maybe win8 had lots of live tiles?

I wish I got at least 5 hours out of any of my laptops...
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on December 26, 2012, 08:52:53 PM
Quote
The run up to Windows 8, which arrived at retail last month, had all the appearances that history might repeat itself – and while no one may have expected “fans” to line up to get their hands on the latest OS from Microsoft, it was expected that it would generate decent sales.

This year the Windows shoppers didn’t come.

Microsoft Windows 8 Remains Unpopular So Far With Consumers (http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1112753725/microsoft-windows-8-adoption-slow-with-consumers-122412/)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on December 29, 2012, 09:58:34 PM
Quote
Almost one year ago today, we laid out the nightmare scenario for Microsoft (MSFT) that could lead to its business collapsing. After laying it all out, we concluded, "Fortunately for Microsoft, none of this is going to happen."

We were wrong.

Steve Ballmer's Nightmare Is Coming True (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/steve-ballmer-s-nightmare-is-coming-true-181558610.html)


Great 20 minute video about the fuckup called Windows 8.

Windows 8: The Animated Evaluation (http://youtu.be/WTYet-qf1jo)

Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Magnum on December 30, 2012, 08:31:50 AM
It makes sense from a profit making angle.

If you intentionally make a program doesn't run on an O.S., customers have to either upgrade the O.S., use an older version or they may discover that bigger aren't necessary. :-)

Andy

Some bozo from a computer magazine said that XP was full of vulnerabilities and that if you are surfing the net or reading email you are an accident waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on December 31, 2012, 06:30:29 PM
heh, I can cherry pick links too 4.5 out of 5 (http://www.techradar.com/au/reviews/pc-mac/software/operating-systems/windows-8-1093002/review)

From http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57560912-292/windows-8-wrestles-with-pcs-legacy/
Quote
Let me close on a positive note, though. I like Windows 8. It's faster than Windows 7 on my Dell and more stable. That's good enough for me.
And Microsoft should spend more time pitching these straightforward Windows 8 merits until touch becomes mainstream.
That's my point in the last sentence of that quote. Too much emphasis on 'metro' and the start button.

I don't like the flat desktop, guess I got used to aero.
I do like the iso mount option, only took 10 years...
For me, it's an evolution of vista, since I don't use apps. Everything is on the desktop. No difference to windows 95. Icon->clickety.
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Bill Cravener on December 31, 2012, 09:42:05 PM
heh, I can cherry pick links too 4.5 out of 5 (http://www.techradar.com/au/reviews/pc-mac/software/operating-systems/windows-8-1093002/review)

Now sinsi I'm a "facts" man, and the facts are growing that Windows 8 is doomed to fail! :biggrin:

Quote
A troubling pattern has emerged for Microsoft and Windows 8. Asian PC makers are saying initial demand is not good for the new tile-based operating system.

Business Insider: Another Bad Windows 8 Report (http://www.businessinsider.com/demand-for-windows-8-is-weak-says-fujitsu-president-2012-12)

Quote
It looks like most consumers are having the same apprehensions, as the next-gen, touch-optimized OS from Microsoft has had a bad uptake when compared to Windows Vista. Windows 8's uptake has now fallen behind Vista's in the same point in it's release according to Net Applications' data.

Windows 8 is currently doing worse than Vista did at launch (http://www.tweaktown.com/news/27561/windows_8_is_currently_doing_worse_than_vista_did_at_launch/index.html#t2ySCI5P8BY8rDd6.99)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: jj2007 on December 31, 2012, 11:36:46 PM
Windows 8 is currently doing worse than Vista did at launch (http://www.tweaktown.com/news/27561/windows_8_is_currently_doing_worse_than_vista_did_at_launch/index.html#t2ySCI5P8BY8rDd6.99)

The next version is already in the pipeline (http://windowsreallygoodedition.com/) :badgrin:
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on January 01, 2013, 01:02:23 PM
For a limited time, get Windows 8 Media Center Pack for free (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs)
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: Gunther on January 02, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Hi Jochen,

The next version is already in the pipeline (http://windowsreallygoodedition.com/) :badgrin:

that's really funny.   :t

Gunther
Title: Re: Windows 8 dead on arrival.
Post by: sinsi on January 28, 2013, 06:36:11 PM
Now sinsi I'm a "facts" man, and the facts are growing that Windows 8 is doomed to fail! :biggrin:
Facts? Here's a fact: since I have installed win8 I have booted into win7 twice...to do some risky browsing  :biggrin:
I've actually had fewer programs not work in win8, never had a bsod, never had a boot problem.

Just read the whole thread and it sounds like that end-of-the-world reverend  :P