Author Topic: Some background on Ukraine/Russia  (Read 455 times)

jj2007

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Re: Some background on Ukraine/Russia
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2022, 12:41:37 AM »
I am afraid that José is irretrievable, he is some kind of fanatic with whom one cannot have a constructive conversation, starting from the assumption that one may be wrong. If he doesn't like something, try to discredit it under the assumption of "super extreme far right +" and there is not the slightest bother in trying to reason it out.

José has a different opinion, and he trusts different sources. It's commonly called "freedom of opinion" and "freedom of expression".

I can't offer you or José reliable sources that tell us the ultimate truth about Maidan, the Donbass, etc.

I happen not to share José's conviction that the pipeline was blown up by Putin, but that doesn't mean I have to insult him or threaten him to be censored if he continues to argue against my belief that it was the Victoria Nuland & Joe B. gang.

It would be really nice if we could respect each other. Ultimately the tone has become a bit rude (and I don't even talk about the forum troll).
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Gunther

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Re: Some background on Ukraine/Russia
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2022, 01:43:49 AM »
Ultimately the tone has become a bit rude...

That's right and it started for example here: The Earth is flat, and the landing on the moon never happened

But not only rude, but also sneaky and vicious, such as here: For quite a while, bricklayers and construction workers have been forced to wear a helmet at work. I think this is a clear violation of human rights!
I could continue this list without any problems. Maybe I should do that too, but in a different setting to make it more effective.

(and I don't even talk about the forum troll).

I understand that completely. Who likes to talk about himself, right?
You have to know the facts before you can distort them.

José Roca

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Re: Some background on Ukraine/Russia
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2022, 02:26:03 AM »
To Make Your Conspiracy Theory Legit, Just Find an 'Expert'

"MIT PROFESSOR EXPOSES ‘Egregious Error’ & Evidence Tampering in US Report on Syria Sarin Incident." Pretty good headline, right? You've got a qualified expert from a prestigious university, discussing verifiable facts; even if you're a born skeptic, you're going to head into that news story with at least a crumb of trust in its accuracy. Maybe, you think, this expert knows something everybody else missed about April's chemical-weapons attack in a rebel-held part of Syria—the one many nations accused Syrian president Bashar al-Assad of having ordered. But in this case, at least, that trust would be misplaced.

Part of the issue is the media outlet that ran the story. RT is a state-funded Russian propaganda outlet that, like its mother country, openly backs Assad. But the second issue is harder to spot: The MIT professor in question, Theodore Postol, isn't a sarin gas chemistry expert. He's not even a chemist. The chemical evidence he presented to RT was came from pro-Assad YouTuber and Infowars contributor Maram Susli. And while Postol has freely admitted that the (debunked) science he cites is not his alone, the fact that he's serving as the mouthpiece is no coincidence. (Postol did not respond to our request for comment.)

In some neighborhoods of the internet, all it takes to start a conspiracy theory is Photoshop, a webcam, and confidence. Susli—aka PartisanGirl—has thrived in that environment, parlaying a college chemistry degree and a series of conspiracy-minded YouTube videos into a new kind of internet authority. But when conspiratorial musings bubble up into the mainstream web or cable news, it’s not because Don Lemon or Ashleigh Banfield took PartisanGirl seriously. To make it in the major leagues, a conspiracy theory---or any other kind of hoax---has to find a voice with a mainstream claim to credibility. A voice like Postol's.

[...]

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/conspiracy-theory-experts/

jj2007

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Re: Some background on Ukraine/Russia
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2022, 02:49:22 AM »
The MIT professor in question, Theodore Postol, isn't a sarin gas chemistry expert.

Quote
The report questioned the findings of the OPCW investigation which concluded that the Assad regime had used sarin.[58] The website Bellingcat disagreed with the report's interpretation and stated there were many caveats in the reports analysis.[59] According to Bellingcat, the report's use of simulation was methodologically flawed, as the paper only provided a simulation of a 122mm type rocket, and did not attempt to study other possible options.[60] In response to the Bellingcat article, the editors of Science & Global Security said "Regrettably, the Bellingcat group blog post contains a number of incorrect statements

Yep, they are arguing, and I have no idea who is right. But I wonder what interest Assad had to use Sarin, knowing that such an action would become public and cause major uproar. Assad is a dictator, not a fool.
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TimoVJL

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NoCforMe

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Re: Some background on Ukraine/Russia
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2022, 05:15:13 AM »
And all started just after 2008 ...

I thought it all started in 2014, with the Maidan "revolution" and all that, but I'm sure there's much more pre-history to it than that.

hutch--

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Re: Some background on Ukraine/Russia
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2022, 10:41:04 AM »
Come on Jose, the US remains in Syria to steal their oil. The rest is bullsh*t.
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NoCforMe

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Re: Some background on Ukraine/Russia
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2022, 10:52:38 AM »
Probably right. Geopolitical ambitions are pretty primal and naked.

What I like is the old saying you used to hear at antiwar demonstrations: "How did our oil end up under their sands?".

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Re: Some background on Ukraine/Russia
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2022, 01:34:06 PM »
 :biggrin:

> https://www.wired.com/2017/05/conspiracy-theory-experts/

A conspiracy theory about conspiracy theories.  :tongue:
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