Author Topic: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ  (Read 39990 times)

hutch--

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Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« on: February 02, 2013, 11:59:35 PM »
Uzi submachine-gun found in Sydney

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/uzi-submachinegun-found-in-sydney-20130202-2drec.html

Now OZ has had restrictive gun laws for years now yet an exotic machine pistol turns up associated with drug dealers. A simple case where the sensible have been stripped of their rights and the criminals have exotic weapons.
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KeepingRealBusy

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 07:14:36 AM »
I have refrained so far from commenting on the gun issue, but the following slogans tell it all:

"When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns."

"When only the military have military style weapons, then the military can pick up all of the remaining weapons and you will be unable to stop them."

Dave

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 07:52:32 AM »
Probably not the case at all.

If you go into a place with a gun..

Scenario 1: Public is disarmed - You're not likely to be attacked so therefore not likely to shoot, you take what you want and leave = few, if any people dead

Scenario 2: Most of the public are known to have guns - the slightest move and you'll start shooting = lots more people dead.

Scenario 3: You're going to a place with intent to kill somebody. Armed public or not, you're going to do it anyway as you have the advantage of timing and place - 1 and 2 also applies here

Leaving out 3,  More guns equals more violence/deaths no matter how you look at it. :)

With regard to the military.. they are people too, and not all militant as you might think.
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Magnum

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 08:23:16 AM »
Scenario 4

You go to a place with intent to kill.

Person with a RTC license and who is carrying his firearm, bides his time and ascertains if it would be safe to shoot without  hitting somebody else.

Person judges that it is safe, makes a decision, and ends the person's life.

Lives are saved and taxpayers save because no trial, etc.

If person had any money on them, it is used for the funeral expenses.





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MichaelW

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2013, 12:39:39 PM »
Probably not the case at all.

If you go into a place with a gun..

Scenario 1: Public is disarmed - You're not likely to be attacked so therefore not likely to shoot, you take what you want and leave = few, if any people dead

Scenario 2: Most of the public are known to have guns - the slightest move and you'll start shooting = lots more people dead.

Scenario 3: You're going to a place with intent to kill somebody. Armed public or not, you're going to do it anyway as you have the advantage of timing and place - 1 and 2 also applies here

Leaving out 3,  More guns equals more violence/deaths no matter how you look at it. :)

With regard to the military.. they are people too, and not all militant as you might think.

So your solution is to work with the criminals, letting them do whatever they want unimpeded? What if what they want is unacceptable? For example, what about a scenario where some criminal decided to kill one of your sons?
Well Microsoft, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into.

hfheatherfox07

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 07:27:38 PM »
Kinda makes you think.....



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jj2007

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 08:03:58 PM »
Kinda makes you think....

Yes, indeed.

Of the Kennedys, of Martin Luther King, John Lennon, Lincoln and others, many of whom protected by extremely well trained armed guards.

So you are in favour of putting well trained armed guards in each and every primary school in the U.S., in each and every shopping mall, in each and every bus station, in each and every hospital, ..?

Brilliant idea :t

hfheatherfox07

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 08:17:37 PM »


So you are in favour of putting well trained armed guards in each and every primary school in the U.S., in each and every shopping mall, in each and every bus station, in each and every hospital, ..?

Brilliant idea :t

People are missing the point I think , It is NOT about guns in that respect it is about a stable society that dose not Bully kids and make them bring guns into  schools... Like Colombian ... those 2 were Bullied other wise they would have never shot every body like they did ! So the Fault of the Gun? Or the morons that Bullied and the other idiots that did nothing?
Fine take a way all guns on the planet .... If some one still wants to kill out of revenge , they would simply build pipe bombs which are easy to make and materials available in all home depots and hunting stores ... than we see carnage !!!
I think all people that go on mass shootings were harmed by society at some point! we need stable society !
! even these so call gangsters felt the need to belong to be safe in a gang
Think about it!
No Guns = Communism
Oh and no high yearly murders in Communist countries LOL

what disturbed me the most after watching a broadcast about school shootings here was the same response from the adults "when we were young people just beat each other with fist now they use weapons"

Oh ? So violence is OK as long as no guns ?

So big guy pound smaller guy in front of GF and he gets shot after in retribution .... I blame him

 
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hfheatherfox07

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 08:29:14 PM »
Also All theses tough on Gun laws are politician doing something after an incident to look like they are doing some thing ... People are like sheep , just followers , oh Gun laws ....

They will never stop homicides like the war on drugs failed! and the US is admitting that ...

YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH SOCIAL PROBLEMS!!!
You need to fix what makes a person pick up a gun and Kill

________________________________________________________________________________________

Our Attorney General Michael Bryant  Got tough on Gun crime in the 1990's I remember that !!!!

And what did he do one night ? Got drunk and killed a cyclist in rage for touching his convertible.....
But he was the Attorney Genera...so.....
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hfheatherfox07

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 08:32:19 PM »

Yes, indeed.

Of the Kennedys, of Martin Luther King, John Lennon, Lincoln and others, many of whom protected by extremely well trained armed guards.


Can you please name the others who did not die due to protection by armed guards....

In fact why not do away with armed guards than ? 
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hfheatherfox07

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 08:34:51 PM »
Uzi submachine-gun found in Sydney

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/uzi-submachinegun-found-in-sydney-20130202-2drec.html

Now OZ has had restrictive gun laws for years now yet an exotic machine pistol turns up associated with drug dealers. A simple case where the sensible have been stripped of their rights and the criminals have exotic weapons.

I clicked on the link on that page "The dangers of dancing at home"  http://www.dailylife.com.au/health-and-fitness/dl-fitness/the-dangers-of-dancing-at-home-20130117-2cuwx.html?rand=1358976904588#utm_source=FD&utm_medium=xpromo&utm_homedancing

So much more interesting than looking at an uzi  :lol:
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hfheatherfox07

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 09:21:07 PM »

With regard to the military.. they are people too, and not all militant as you might think.

Well ...It feels like we live in a police state already ! we have just as many homicides by trigger happy cops shooting people than by so called gun man ....

So many last year .... guy looked inside the garbage can out side hospital in Quebec , and retarded cops fired stray bullets and killed him http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/06/08/montreal-police-shooting.html

An old woman was shot by police after coming towards them with a gardening tool ( not like the report said at first a knife , she was hard of hearing)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/10/07/toronto-woman-shot.html

and so many more.....no cops are ever imprisoned for theses shootings ... they are always justified some how! So our life's are not as valuable as police life's  ?

And why are cops so brave to pull a gun on an old woman instead of restrain her ? 
Well.... Who will do anything about it ?

I believe in a place where most people are gun owner cops don't shot so freely ....
I mean if some one shot your mother like a dog in a street like that and you owned a gun ...

Cops always whining about their safety and guns on the streets , but I have never heard of a cop getting shot here in the line of duty ... the only cops that died in the line of duty in Toronto where idiots who jumped in front of moving vehicles , I guess the vehicle wins every time


I am more afraid of facing a trigger happy idiot cop ( who goes to the range and shots every day) than a "criminal" who has almost no practice with that gun



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dedndave

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 11:02:22 PM »
criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed
dictators prefer their citizens to be unarmed

so, yah, let's disarm the public and see what's left

Magnum

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2013, 09:29:14 AM »
Australia's 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings.
Chapman S, Alpers P, Agho K, Jones M.
Source

School of Public Health, University of Sydney, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. sc@med.usyd.edu.au
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.
OBJECTIVE:

To determine whether Australia's 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.
DESIGN:

Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre-post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings.
SETTING:

Australia, 1979-2003.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100,000 population.
RESULTS:

In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100,000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws.
CONCLUSIONS:

Australia's 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.

I wonder what their definition of mass shootings is ?

As far as taking legal guns away that someone bought, well burying them in the woods and an active population of green and black mambas in the area....

Reloading averages 1/3 the cost of store ammo.

Outta here,
                    Andy



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dedndave

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Re: Further failures of the gun grabbers in OZ
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2013, 09:49:35 AM »
these kind of studies are almost always biased to highlight a specific point of view
they fail to show you the statistics on citizens that stop crimes
it may well be that more deaths overall occured, due to criminals having guns and no law-abiding citizens to stop them
this would be a very difficult statistic to present

undoubtedly, this was prepared by someone, or some group of individuals, that favor strict gun controls

suicides - i am not sure we want to present that statistic
if someone wants to off themselves, they will find a way
and - it has little bearing on violent crime, except for murder-suicide cases

the numbers for homicides are the important stats

Quote
Australia's 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal
mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides

notice the careful wording