Author Topic: Is all of HLL was slow?  (Read 5707 times)

Farabi

  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 968
  • Neuroscience Fans
Is all of HLL was slow?
« on: February 23, 2013, 04:23:29 PM »
I should admit that for years I was over confidents, because each time I saw what HLL do I always think, I can build something faster than that. For example I though I can fix OpenGL. Now I realize I will never beat OpenGL. And also, some friend remind me that JWAsm and MASM was built by a HLL compiler.  I notice great HLL coders like Hutch and Japhet. But, dont you think most of software getting bigger and slower?

I dont know is it allowed or not to mention this, if you ever used Samsung Kies. That software is very slow, even only for switch from a tab to another tab. And also a local indonesian software like SMADAV. Even for only starting up the software and initialize the system, it took 10 minutes.

I dont know why it can be like that, maybe -on my opinions- could it be because they use Virtual Allocation instead of allocating memory on physical RAM? I never know.
http://farabidatacenter.url.ph/MySoftware/
My 3D Game Engine Demo.

Contact me at Whatsapp: 6283818314165

hutch--

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9353
  • Mnemonic Driven API Grinder
    • The MASM32 SDK
Re: Is all of HLL was slow?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2013, 06:43:41 PM »
Onan,

If a high level language is used properly you get reasonable results but if you design the software badly it can be real crap. Usually the easier a language is supposed to be, the slower it performs. Some high level languages perform better than others and some are so poor that nothing will make them work well but if the language is competent and the developer knows what he/she is doing, they will get OK results.

Some of the problems are too many threads, incorrect types of memory allocation, slow algorithms, badly designed memory usage and a whole host of other problems that come from the developer not knowing what they are doing properly.
hutch at movsd dot com
http://www.masm32.com    :biggrin:  :skrewy:

MichaelW

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1196
Re: Is all of HLL was slow?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 07:19:09 PM »
There is also the unlikely possibility that the application is so “compute” intensive that even with the best choice of algorithms and the fastest coding possible, it would still run slow.
Well Microsoft, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into.

Magnum

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2363
Re: Is all of HLL was slow?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 08:57:33 PM »
So, are you saying that when you want to rake leaves in your yard, it will take a while becuz you have to manually do it ?

Take care,
                  Andy

Good thing about Alzheimer's is that eventually you forget that you can not remember some things.

***  :dazzled:Guru whose mother had Alzheimer's disease.

Take care,
                   Andy

Ubuntu-mate-18.04-desktop-amd64

http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org

Vortex

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2658
Re: Is all of HLL was slow?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 09:25:58 PM »
Hi Onan,

What makes someone a good photographer? Only an advanced digital SLR machine? No. It's the eye's ability to "see the photograph", the point of view. You are an assembly programmer and you have a wider perspective to see the internals of programming languages. It's true that today's software is bigger and slower as they introduced new programming layers. As an assembly coder, you have the opportunity to mix C\C++ with asm and even support other HLLs with DLLS written in asm. You can use effectively HLLs, why not?

Dubby

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: Is all of HLL was slow?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2013, 09:37:07 PM »
whoa dude, we came from the same country...  :biggrin:

it depend on the HLL itself... according to my understanding from reading here and there, some of them using their own emulated "layer"...  not communicating directly with the OS...

as for the "AV" software you mention, I prefer not to use it... just imagine the "AV" thing need to intercept everything, then checking their database(how big is it?) for recognizing the signature, and what if they also have their own (emulated) layer...? imagine what happen with the speed...?

In my personal opinion If need to choose HLL to write program with, then I'll choose C/C++, especially I came from assembly which is almost share the same concept, the API will remain as the API but the register(s)  will be replaced by "my own" variable(s).. also the best part is:
I can mix it with assembly...

while I was about to post my post, Vortex have been posted.. +1 to him...  :biggrin:


xanatose

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 420
Re: Is all of HLL was slow?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2013, 03:50:29 AM »
@Farabi
Do you need the result of the computation or just to show the computation?

IF its only for show, then the graphic card is the way to go.

If you need to do something with the result. Then it will depend if the round trip from the main memory to the graphics card and then back to the main memory cost more or less than your coding directly with the CPU. Sometimes CUDA beats CPU calculations by a mile. Sometimes the round trip latency takes any advantage. It will always depend on the context of your program.

Assembly is just one of the tools.

anta40

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 315
Re: Is all of HLL was slow?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2013, 12:52:48 PM »
I think it's not quite right to say "HLL is slow", because a language is just a language.
You can't measure its performance. But you can measure the quality it's implementation.

So, for example, you can just say "C is slow". "Pelles C is slow" or "GCC is slow", for example.

AFAIK, this is due to the optimizer/code generator part.

Probably some aspects of language design could affect/ease optimization. I don't know much about
compiler design, though.

On the other hand, in general the key of having good performance is efficient useage of data structures/algorithms,
regardless of language/compiler you are using.

Vortex

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2658
Re: Is all of HLL was slow?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2013, 06:24:06 AM »
AFAIK, this is due to the optimizer/code generator part.

True. Good compilers have good optimization capabilities.