Author Topic: Needless death  (Read 6425 times)

Magnum

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Needless death
« on: August 28, 2014, 12:43:38 PM »
http://abcnews.go.com/US/girl-accidentally-kills-instructor-firing-uzi/story?id=25139216

This story was really sad.

I supervised my kids shooting single shot firearms, but they were older than 9 years old.

I feel really sorry for the girl.

In Texas, the last range I was at,  if you you shot full auto, you were asked to leave the range.

Andy
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jj2007

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 02:46:17 PM »
I supervised my kids shooting single shot firearms, but they were older than 9 years old.

I don't. I would feel really sick if I did something sick like teaching a kid to shoot.

Quote
I feel really sorry for the girl.

Me too - she clearly is the victim. I don't feel sorry for the parents or the "teacher", though.

Tedd

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 10:39:51 PM »
"Let's put automatic weapons in the hands of children! What could possibly go wrong?"
Potato2

BlueMR2

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 10:50:43 PM »
There's a reason why when showing children (or even new adults) how to shoot that you only put ONE round in the gun...  They have a tendency to be so excited they start waving it around after the first shot.  In this case it sounds like it just walked over, which I can see happening too.  Uzi's don't have much recoil, but even for a prepared adult they will walk up on you a little.  So, for a youngster it could easily turn into a disaster.  Especially when the instinct is to grab hold tighter, which just keeps the trigger down...  :-(

anta40

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 12:04:38 AM »
Me too - she clearly is the victim. I don't feel sorry for the parents or the "teacher", though.

Americans and their obsessions with guns?  ::)
Would archery be a better idea?

K_F

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2014, 04:54:24 AM »
Saw this on another forum...  :icon_eek:

I worked with a guy (branch manager) who was a gun fanatic, taught his daughter and son to shoot.
He'd go on hunting trips, and when back in the office the secretary would say..
'How many animals have you murdered this week-end ?'

She was an avid dog lover, wierd and cracked... I didn't really like her, but agreed with her on this point.
  :icon_rolleyes:
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guga

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 05:17:32 AM »
Unfortunately this was an announced tragedy. I feel sorry for the girl who will have to go through the rest of her life with that horrifying image on her head. She definitely will carry this burden forever. Also, i feel sorry for the instructor and his family for his death per se, but....this was something that was "asking" to happen. I wonder who in his perfect mind would allow a child to carry a gun anyway ?

But...the instruction "school" is not responsible alone (After all it should be forbidden teach kids do things like that) , I blame mostly her own parents who were stupid enough to allow their own child to do such a stupidity as test a weapon. Next time, they will try to teach her how to throw a grenade or a nuclear bomb or something.
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MichaelW

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 11:13:40 AM »
A qualified instructor would have expected her to be inept, and until she knew what to expect, controlled the muzzle for her.
Well Microsoft, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into.

guga

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2014, 04:58:50 PM »
Hi Michael.

Yes, maybe a qualified instructor should do that sort of control, but. The main problem is with the shooting school itself (Not to mention the beast mentality of her own parents). I´m not aware of gun´s legislation in US, but here, this sort of things are being forbidden. Only people which are older then 25 can buy a gun. And also it must have a special authorization (It is really a long way to be allowed to you buy and register a gun here in Brazil, except if you are a policemen or in the army etc). If a "school" tries to teach kids to carry weapons the school would be possibly closed and the owners would probably go to jail in case of an "accident" (A project is being made to forbid completely  schools like that to "teach" kids, even for sport shooting, since some "accidents" happens in the past). The same thing happens to it´s parents that are also responsible for this death, since they "authorized" a minor to use a gun that killed someone.

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BlueMR2

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2014, 10:10:57 PM »
Despite what the media would have you believe, guns in the USA do have restrictions.  :-)  Pretty complex ones too (and the reasons as to WHY the various restrictions exist are even more complex).  I'll just do a quick rundown on the basics, since whole books can be written about this stuff.

In USA: 18 years old to buy a longgun (rifle, shotgun, etc), 21 years old to buy a handgun.  interestingly, Uzis can be configured either as a "handgun" or a "longgun" depending on barrel length and stock.  True automatic weapons (multiple rounds fired per trigger pull) are VERY tightly controlled under the NFA act (1968 I believe?) as are armor piercing bullets, but letting others use it while the NFA responsible party is present is legal.  Kids are allowed to shoot, but there must be a responsible (in theory, apparently some are not terribly responsible in practice) party of age with them.  NICS federal firearm background check must be performed on all transactions that involve a Federal Firearms License (not all do, and those that don't require the seller to not sell to convicted felons, etc).

From there on it varies widely state to state.  Where I live (Ohio), no gun permits required and it's legal to openly carry guns where not otherwise restricted (there are a ton of restricted zones, including 1000 foot school safety zones that make it pretty much impossible to legally do in any town or city).  Concealed carry only permits handguns (no longguns, no knives, not even a taser) and requires training, another background check, and registration with law enforcement.  It also is subject to a set of restricted zones (different from open carry).  Any gun that holds more than 33 rounds (except for .22lr caliber) is defined as an "automatic weapon" (even when it's not automatic) and then falls under the MUCH tighter restrictions.  Sound suppression devices are also very tightly regulated.

Oh, and we seem to be the most litigious society around.  Make an error in firearms judgment and you may not go to jail, but you might as well since you'll end up penniless and living under a bridge in a cardboard box.  :-)

That's the super short summary.  :-)

BlueMR2

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2014, 10:13:58 PM »
*deleted*  Pushed wrong button.

Magnum

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2014, 05:34:50 PM »
I have not checked on the facts, but according to ABC news, 6 yr. olds can shoot guns in Texas with parental permission.

I wonder if stupidity is contagious.
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guga

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2014, 02:40:57 AM »
6 years old ?????

Damn. I keep wondering what kind of parents they are. Why not giving his kid a G.I..Joe, a Playmobil, a doll, a puzzle etc. Why not simply motivate his KIds with educational games, instead merging an infant on contact with violence. I keep wondering if a kid is born with psychopathic tendencies, his behaviour is potentiality enhanced buy his own parents acts.

I´m totally against real guns in the hands of a minor no matter what the circumstances are. A toy gun to incentive some playings is one thing (As long the kid also play with other things as well, to avoid he vinculate violence as a natural behaviour), but a real gun ??? This is simply irresponsibility. It is the same stupidity as teach your kiid how to hunt, how to kill a animal.

Accordying to the kid´s age, the parents may play with him with paintball gaming's or even archery (Specially designed or focused to kids), but...real guns ? Absolutely stupidity.

Kids must be kids. Leave the arms to the grown ups.
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dedndave

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2014, 09:20:33 PM »
i was taught to handle guns and hunt at a young age
i was raised in a family of multiple generations of farmers
it was an issue of putting food on the table, and often keeping crops and livestock safe

better to have a pheasant on the plate than in the corn field - lol

BlueMR2

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Re: Needless death
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2014, 09:31:29 AM »
I have not checked on the facts, but according to ABC news, 6 yr. olds can shoot guns in Texas with parental permission.

They can, as long as there is someone of age there assuming responsibility for the weapon.  For an Uzi pistol, somebody 21 years or older has to be there.  For an Uzi carbine, it would just be 18 years old.

A full automatic handheld gun of any kind is not a good choice for a child IMO.  Single shot, sure.  Semi-auto, maybe depending on maturity.  Full-auto, not a wise thing.  I've shot a full auto Uzi myself before.  The recoil is mild, but I still found myself only firing short bursts as it tends to walk up the target for me some.  For a small child, it's going to do a lot more than walk up a little (as was proven in such a horrible manner).  I've seen children just as young fire full auto tripod mounted WWI/II relics before, and not an issue with those at all.  They have a lot of recoil, but the tripod eats it.  None is transferred to the shooter, so control is not an issue.