A Great Victory for President Obama!

[Bill Cravener]

Just wanted to take a moment out my busy day to tell all my friends overseas that something is finally happening to improve the United States current pathetic health care system. :icon14:

Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law

11 facts about the Affordable Care Act

[hutch--]

i saw the result which is a good one for ordinary Americans but I note the decision was only 5 to 4 so some of the judges appointed during the Bush era probably don't want to see Obama's legislation succeed.

[Ryan]

As ironic as it is, Chief Justice John Roberts, who was appointed by Bush ruled in favor of the law.

[anunitu]

Just the fact that Roberts voted in this way,gives me hope that  SCOTUS is perhaps not overly influenced by politics,and indeed actually more concerned with TRUE rule of Law.   

[FORTRANS]

Hi,

   An interesting twist is the personal mandate was defended
as valid by using a commerce clause of the Constitution.  But
Roberts said that it is a tax, and allowed as such.  And not
with the commerce clause.   That changes the rules needed
to enforce the mandate.  And it gives it the ever-popular
onus of a tax.

Regards,

Steve N.

[Ryan]

Yeah.  From what I'm reading, since it will be a tax, the constitutionality of the tax will not be evaluated until someone is taxed, which will be 2014.  They're just kicking the can down the road.

[Bill Cravener]

This calculator from the Kaiser Family Foundation will let you see the subsidies and the caps for different families at different income levels.

http://healthreform.kff.org/Home/KHS/SubsidyCalculator.aspx?source=FS

[FORTRANS]

Yeah.  From what I'm reading, since it will be a tax, the constitutionality of the tax will not be evaluated until someone is taxed, which will be 2014.  They're just kicking the can down the road.

Hi,

   Amusing thought; given that being a tax is the reason that
it was deemed constitutional.  Not just kicking it down the road,
it's a field goal.

Regards

Steve

[Ryan]

True.

Maybe someone is hoping that the way Congress tries to implement the tax will be unconstitutional?

[xanatose]

Lets hope that the Victory is for the people of the United States and not for just a politician that wouldn't care less for its people.

The way the bill its structured it will increase and not decrease the cost of medicine in the USA.  I have seen the events when the same was done in Puerto Rico, destroying the public hospital system while incrementing the load on the private hospitals. At first everything seem fine, until you realize that you still have the same amount of hospitals and that you have just increased the demand.

Offer and demand. You just increased the amount of money available to a particular sector. So the incentive to do better is lost. Instead they will simply increase the prices. You have not lowered the cost of labor nor or products. At the end the only ones that will benefit are the insurance companies, and the politicians being paid for. Eventually there will be death panels that choose when spending money on X person health is worth it or not.

Universal insurance increase the cost for everyone. Public hospitals and free doctor education makes it cheaper. How? You create hospitals, you create universities bound to those hospitals, and you give education paid by working at those hospitals. That would have lowered the cost of everyone since the offer is increased and doctors without debt are on the job.

But hey, its a Victory for Obama. Who cares if this will doom the USA in the long run.

[jj2007]

But hey, its a Victory for Obama. Who cares if this will doom the USA in the long run.

The four countries that I lived in until now all have health care systems that are far more "socialist" (read: Satan's ugly face) than Obama's timid attempt to provide health care for the poor. And they have it since at least WW II.
But hey, this is Europe

[MichaelW]

The problem here is not in providing health care for the poor it’s in mandating that we buy health insurance from private companies. The goal here is to force a large number of healthy people with healthy life styles and a low risk of health problems into the system, so they can be grossly overcharged for their health care, and so subsidize health care for people who choose unhealthy/risky life styles.

[jj2007]

Point taken. So it needs to be financed in a different way. Energy taxes, for example? If that is too "religious" in the U.S.: Most EU countries have a value added tax around 20%. I would not recommend higher income taxes because they can too easily be avoided by the truly rich.
Another nice variant is a property and/or land tax, obviously with a tax-free zone that leaves 98% of all Americans untaxed.

My favourites are energy taxes - at least it would make you in the long run less dependent from people like Putin, Ahmadinejad and Chavez.

[Greenhorn]

I have seen the events when the same was done in Puerto Rico, destroying the public hospital system while incrementing the load on the private hospitals. At first everything seem fine, until you realize that you still have the same amount of hospitals and that you have just increased the demand.

This is happening nowadays here in Germany. The gov is privatizing the hospitals (and not only them).
They say if we have competition between the hospitals the costs will decrease.
But it's not. The costs are increasing, because the hospitals have to make high margins for the owners/share holders. And you can only increase with doing more OPs.
Also they have to save in every way (wages etc.) and so the hygiene get's more worse, because the working slaves are unmotivated and under pressure of decreasing all costs. The chief physicians must act like buisnessmen and not like doctors and a big part of their income is based on bonuses. Some of them who still have a conscience are resigning their job.

I have five damaged spinal disks and I'm glad that have a good doctor and haven't to be operated.
I was six months ill at home and since three weeks I'm doing my rehabilitation in my company, but I can't continue my old profession.
So now I'm doing a desk job in my company.

In the last five years in Germany the OPs at the back/spinal disks have doubled! So guess why...
And, a study came out that points that 85% of all OPs at the back here are unnecessary!

This is only one example for PPP of many in Germany.
Germany is selling the whole silverware which is owned by the Gov respectively by the people.
Only rich men can afford a poor state.
I hope "Mommy" in Berlin will go to hell as soon as possible.
Angie is very dangerous for the democracy, not only in Germany.
But most of the german politicians are it, too. Criminal Gangsters they are even like the Banksters.

For the matter of taxes, if they are used well for the general public, they are not a bad thing.
The scandinavian countries have very high taxes, but they also have a high level of living because of this.

But back to topic: Congratulations to the american people !


Greenhorn

[MichaelW]

"Banksters", this is the first time I have seen that word, and I like it :t