Author Topic: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.  (Read 39479 times)

Bill Cravener

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2012, 08:39:05 PM »
Bill,

Why do your posts on this subject have the feel of a con-job political ad?

Well Michael you go ahead and see it any way you like. I at least have the balls to speak my mind about the subject of gun-control, be it for or against, with out hiding my identity anonymously as so many do. I’ve met my share of gun lovers during my years of living and the only time people like that have a pair of balls is when they can hug that Teddy Bear they so adore, be it openly or concealed. Pussies, that’s all they are.

Yes I have strong opinions on the subject of guns and if anyone feels the need that badly to shut me up you know who I am and where I live. I get sick of phuking gun lovers who know little about gun ownership the responsibility that goes with owning a gun and the dangers of owning them. I own and maintain two guns; one is a Remington 30-ot-6 with 9 power scope for deer and bear, the other a Remington 12 gauge over and under for small game. I’ve always owned at least two guns for hunting since age 12, so I at least know something about what I speak.

One thing for certain, for every human slaughter by a madman with a gun this country gets closer to doing something about the “too” easy access to gun purchases. It can’t come soon enough as far as I’m concerned. The fact is in homes with hand guns the homicide of a household member is some 3 times more likely to occur than in homes without a hand gun. Owning a shotgun is safer and more practical for home protection if having a gun for protection is what you seek.

We have a real problem in this country when federal law does not prohibit members of terrorist organizations from purchasing or possessing guns. That over a thousand gun background checks for people on terrorist watch lists, some 91% of the gun transactions, were allowed. That near 5,000 gun shows take place in the United States each year where assault type rifles are easily purchased by most anyone. Hell even an ex-con who committed a crime with a gun, once released from prison, can go out and buy a gun.

Something must be done to stop this insanity where most anyone is allowed to own a gun in the United States. Help stop the slaughter and the madness!

http://www.bradycampaign.org/



MichaelW

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2012, 01:38:27 AM »
Well Michael you go ahead and see it any way you like. I at least have the balls to speak my mind about the subject of gun-control, be it for or against, with out hiding my identity anonymously as so many do.

I have absolutely no problem with you having strong opinions and speaking your mind. What I do have a problem with is you promoting your POV by attempting to mislead people, and this is what I was getting at with my “con-job political ad” comment. One good example of this is your posting of the Adam Gadhan quote in another thread:

“America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle without a background check, and most likely, without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?”

Should I assume that you actually believe this drivel, or that in a post-9/11 world the FBI and BATFE are not closely monitoring gun shows?
 
Another good example is the photos of children posing with assault weapons that you posted in the same thread. You implied that they were children of “gun-loving parents”. They could have been, or the photos could have been fabrications intended to make “gun-loving parents” look bad. This kind of stuff has become SOP for political activists, and the people doing it don’t seem to understand that it works against their credibility.

Well Microsoft, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into.

Bill Cravener

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2012, 04:04:04 AM »
“America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle without a background check, and most likely, without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?”

Should I assume that you actually believe this drivel, or that in a post-9/11 world the FBI and BATFE are not closely monitoring gun shows?

Michael, are you truly that naïve?

http://youtu.be/baPgr_tw79Q

http://youtu.be/Rbr_rZ2bUZM

http://youtu.be/YQEDvqmAfqg

Tell me something Michael, have you ever been to a gun show and seen gun purchases where no id was given by the buyer or requested by the seller? I have!! Besides that fact what is to stop some white boy from buying an assault rifle then selling it to some terrorist who's only intentions are to kill people with it? I find it incredible that you are that blind about what is happening in this country when it comes to the easy accessibility to weapons!


http://www.bradycampaign.org/


jj2007

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2012, 04:10:47 AM »
... photos of children posing with assault weapons that you posted in the same thread. You implied that they were children of “gun-loving parents”. They could have been, or the photos could have been fabrications intended to make “gun-loving parents” look bad.

Why "look bad"? Why should “gun-loving parents” (and I understand that is the majority in the U.S.) feel ashamed seeing their kids displaying attributes of their constitutional rights? Shouldn't they rather be proud of such photos?

MichaelW

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2012, 06:03:30 AM »
Michael, are you truly that naïve?

OK, I’ll try again, “fully automatic assault rifle” = machine gun = long term in federal prison if the buyer or the seller gets caught not doing everything by the book.
 
Why "look bad"? Why should “gun-loving parents” (and I understand that is the majority in the U.S.) feel ashamed seeing their kids displaying attributes of their constitutional rights? Shouldn't they rather be proud of such photos?

I would imagine that some of them would be proud, but I think most people would see them as having a serious mental imbalance, and irresponsible. Perhaps my knowing only upstanding, sane, reasonable, and responsible gun enthusiast has skewed by viewpoint.
Well Microsoft, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into.

Bill Cravener

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2012, 08:05:39 AM »
Haven't fired many guns in your life have you Michael?

Anyone with any knowledge in the firing of a semi automatic rifle such as the Maadi Egyptian AK-47 as was purchased in the first video link in my above post (with out any id) can bumpfire it making it fire nearly as fast as a full-automatic rifle. Imagine how many people could be killed with one of those things. Insanity!

http://youtu.be/9tJq8pCHqgI

hutch--

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2012, 03:54:51 PM »
Some of the kid photos are either phonies or done as humour. Lets face it, give a 10 year old a full sized 12 guage shotgun and it would knock them over on firing it. My Winchester of old (44 magnum) kicked like a mule and was a reasonably nasty thing to use, I seriously doubt a kid could use it. A lot of assault rifles are genuine pieces of CHYTE, hard to use and bad mannered, a cheap AK47 is not a bad example of a crapheap, then can you imagine a 10 year old picking up a full sized 44 magnum Smith and Wesson, they would have problems holding it in one hand let alone firing it.

I would rather see a kid get taught by his/her parents about guns that learn fantasy scenarios on video games where you run around phony universes shooting anyone in sight. If kids are taught that guns are nasty noisy things that are hard to handle and take skill to use, then they are far safer in a society than a kid who grew up playing stupid video games where human beings were just running targets to shoot.

There is a lot of technique in using guns in hunting situations, my specialty long ago was helping friends on properties to control feral pigs and it was usually done on foot in undergrowth between knee and hip height where wild pigs blended in very well with the scenery. You usually got one clear shot and one more if you understood the reload method of your rifle, a Winchester 94 pattern is reasonably fast to reload with its lever action. I have seen a guy empty a 22 automatic into a big pig and then run and climb a tree. The pig was in bad shape but it was really pissed off about being shot.

I have also seen a guy do a perfect head shot front on to a big pig with a Lee Enfield .303 and the bullet furrowed up the front of its head. he stopped it the next shot. This is why I used a 44 magnum Winchester, they DID go down first shot. Kids taught about using guns in a context like this never do anything stupid, they have to understand the risks and know how to use a gun correctly.

I agree with Bill that many guns should not be in circulation, mainly hand guns and concealable small autoloaders like Uzzis and similar machine pistols, we differ over assault rifles, I mean how do you conceal a full sized M16 going into a picture theatre ? I would support hand gun owners being given the chance to swap their hand guns for rifles that could not be concealed and have it funded by the wowser gun grabber idiot fringe. there was a buy back scheme for assault rifles here in OZ after the Tasmanian massacre but the owners got the short end of the stick and the repayments were short of the actual values.

Now of course there is another factor in play here, these considerations only work on people who accept legal limits on guns, criminals will alway get illegal guns, machine guns, big calibre autoloaders with long range and good scopes, rapid fire hand guns and the like. I mean, can you imagine a sleeper Al Queda terrorist cell embedded in a western county NOT owning a decent arsenal of illegal weapons ? Assault rifles, machine guns ad RPGs ?

When the loonies like this will always have guns, why should the population be disarmed like they were in Sweden when that lunatic killed all of those unprotected people ?
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Bill Cravener

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2012, 08:34:58 PM »
Photos of kids holding guns, believe me I don’t make this stuff up! Gun loving parents think it’s cute to have photos of their kids holding their weapons. This is a pretty common thing to happen here in the states. Parent’s best beware though because in many states you can be arrested for doing so.

http://www.parentfail.com/little-girl-and-a-big-gun/

http://www.dailydump.net/2011/11/gun-club-allows-children-to-pose-with-guns-in-santa-photos/

http://www.myfoxal.com/story/19186155/picture-of-child-with-gun-found-on-phone

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2012/07/23/i-dont-know-you-decide-bjm/


dedndave

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2012, 08:59:40 PM »
the ones that get me are the Christmas-themed ones - lol
Jesus would roll over in his grave - oh, i guess he tried that

MichaelW

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2012, 03:42:29 AM »
Haven't fired many guns in your life…Anyone with any knowledge…Imagine how many…Insanity!

So IOW, after I pointed out what my drivel claim was based on you could not find any way to refute it. Political BS is by nature not a dependable source of information, it’s typically more or less of a con job. If you seriously expect to do any good with gun control, BS of any flavor is not going to help.

Well Microsoft, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into.

Bill Cravener

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2012, 06:17:26 AM »
Come on Michael I think what I’ve laid out with regard to the insane love this country has to gun ownership and the many factual links I have posted about the fixation that exists here in the US for guns is all true and undeniable. Americas unbelievably easy access to all types of guns of any sort to both criminals and terrorists is clear evidence that we Americans have a real problem. This delusional fantasy that a gun can save you from some madman is absurd, it rarely happens that way. It is nonsense to believe otherwise. But hey, I say to all the gun lovers out there, go ahead and squeeze that Teddy Bear real tight if it makes you feel safe.

Teach Your Toddler To Shoot A Gun



Something must be done to stop this insanity where most anyone is allowed to own a gun in the United States. Help stop the slaughter and the madness!

http://www.bradycampaign.org/


jj2007

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2012, 07:18:55 AM »
This delusional fantasy that a gun can save you from some madman is absurd, it rarely happens that way.

Quote
According to Federal statistics for every "one" time a handgun is used by a citizen to kill a criminal, 118 innocent people are killed in handgun murders, suicides and accidents.
(from a dubious source but still quite impressing :greensml:)

MichaelW

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2012, 10:44:03 AM »
Come on Michael I think what I’ve laid out with regard to the insane love this country has to gun ownership and the many factual links I have posted about the fixation that exists here in the US for guns is all true and undeniable.

Come on Bill, what you see as factual links I see as political propaganda, no better than the political propaganda that is produced by people on the other side of the issue.

Quote
This delusional fantasy that a gun can save you from some madman is absurd, it rarely happens that way. It is nonsense to believe otherwise.

It stands to reason that it would rarely happen that way, because madmen rarely shoot people and the vast majority of people do not carry guns. It is nonsense to expect otherwise. The reality is that a gun can save you, and others, from some madman.

Well Microsoft, here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten us into.

hutch--

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Re: Kennesaw Georgia, the solution to gun violence.
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2012, 11:46:58 AM »
The suicide and accident arguments do little to justify the gun grabbers, around the world people commit suicide in many ways apart from guns. A gun may be faster and perhaps in the eye of the person ending their time, more dramatic but the person who jumps off a cliff is just as dead, so is the slit wrists, jumping under a truck or people who hang themselves. Then there are those who overdose on pills or drugs, those who poison themselves and the list goes on forever.

Now with accidents, people have accidents all the time, car prangs is one of them, running over pedestrians, falling off ladders etc etc etc ad infinitem. The gun culture in the US is based on its history, a colony turned into a nation that had its own war of independence, civil war, indian wars, frontier towns, fights over land grabs and a whole host of other things that involved people shooting at each other. Interestingly enough the history in OZ is different, it retained the English legal structure and political system, we have never had internal warfare and while guns are part of our culture, they were mainly for hunting or killing feral animals.

I can go some of the way with Bill in that concealable weapons are mainly used for killing people, same with any rapid fire weapon (I mean, do you hunt rabbits with an Uzzi ?) but we would disagree about autoloader assault rifles as long as they were not concealable.

There is another factor with gun grabbing, it changes the types of weapons available to people who WILL illegally own and use weapons. In a society that allows at least some gun ownership, most illegal usage will be similar weapons but perform blanket bans on gun ownership and the range of weapons illegally brought into the country changes, RPGs, grenade launchers, a whole host of concealable machine guns, rapid fire hand guns, specialised weapons that are truly silent, crossbows, pneumatic propulsion guns (air rifles and pistols [and I don't mean the BB guns that kids used to play with] ).

The problem will not go away by disarming the people who do things legally, it will simple make it easier for people who do not play by the rules. I mean, does anyone seriously thing that an Al Queda terrorist cell give a flying PHUK about legality ?
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Gunther

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