Author Topic: Compiler vs the Assembly guy  (Read 13823 times)

CodeDog

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Re: Compiler vs the Assembly guy
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2012, 12:31:14 PM »
Assembler programmers use an assembler because whittling opcodes is hard work.
Low level compiler programmers use a low level compiler because an assembler is hard work.
High level compiler programmers use them because low level compilers are hard work.
Very high level compiler programmers use them because high level compilers are hard work.
Script jockeys use them because very high level compilers don't make much sense.
Paying customers pick what does the job, they don't care how its made as long as it does the job fast enough.

A third reply, sorry about that but I hate copy and paste, quote tags out of order and reply buttons spitting in my face. I will simply just reply a third time here.  :icon_mrgreen:

You have it good there, it sounds nice and elegant, but is it really that elegantly and well thought out? If you go deeper into this. Let me just go into some of the things you say here.

1. "Assembly coders use assembly because opcodes are hard" Well this was true 40 years ago, but do assembly coders use assembly because opcodes are hard, how much sense does it really make if you consider that the same assembly coders could have chosen a HL language, which is even more simpler than opcodes. I am almost definitely sure that today's assembly coders does not use assembly because opcodes are hard, I can almost guarantee you that, shake hands and put a thousand dollar on the table. Today's assembly programmers do NOT use it because opcodes are hard. I am tempted to say the opposite that assembly programmers choose assembly because a high level language is too easy (and therefore limited).

2. You say that "Low level compiler programmers use a low level compiler because an assembler is hard work." This is, sorry to say so hutch, but its nonsense.  People who choose a common language does not at all have to do anything with assembly. There are so many other things that could apply and it could be just random chance, or a typical choice. Things are not layered like you put it here, it just isn't.

3. "High level compiler programmers use them because low level compilers are hard work." This is the same thing as I pointed out above, this is just nonsense. A high level programmer is probably not even aware that assembly language exists, and if he is he doesn't know jack sh*it about assembly, not even close in judging what he is missing out or what he is not missing out. Choosing a regular language is just "usual business", thats what we do in the world, people choose common languages, it has nothing at all to do with assembly. Common languages is the norm in the world, assembly is the minority. :P

4. "Very high level compiler programmers use them because high level compilers are hard work." I suppose you are speaking of rad development environments and these kind of environments, here the same thing applies again, people choose this to make money faster, there is nothing more to it. RAD is all about money, like everything else is it has nothing to do with hl compilers.

about script kiddies, scripts are useful and sure there are people who only know how to script but if the same guy were an assembly expert on top of that you wouldn't be calling him a script kiddie. The point here is that a script kiddie knows how to script, so what, scripts are useful for different tasks, it is not by any means a replacement of a HL language, scripts can't replace a HL language.

Your list look elegant but elegance can also be scrutinized. I also want to add that I do understand that you may have been talking from an evolutionary perspective, how things gradually evolved and why it evolved that way, but if you talk about why things are the way they are now today, your list does not apply fully.

hutch--

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Re: Compiler vs the Assembly guy
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2012, 12:54:38 PM »
I think all you are saying here is the choices that paying customers made in 1990 are different from the choice that paying customers made in 2010 in so far as the actual software but I suggest that the maxim still holds that paying customers buy what they perceive does the job OK, fast enough and probably at the right price.

RE: Your post analysis, you appear to miss the drift of the post, pick the right tool for the job and that ranges from whittling opcodes in HEX to paying someone to write the code for you. Such value judgements as to the suitability of the tool for the task is in the eye of the beholder, not the post commentator. Also you do not accommodate variation in programmers, their style or experience. A gal who is very experienced at very high level languages most probably knows the language's weaknesses and the viable work arounds to get the job done as efficiently as the language will allow.

Some dude that knows their way around asm and C will know what you use for what task, how and where they overlap and the weaknesses of both. You don't shovel CHYTE with a sharp knife but conversely you don't crack atoms with a blunt shovel.  :P
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jj2007

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Re: Compiler vs the Assembly guy
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2012, 04:24:58 PM »
The future is already with us, folks. From my inbox:

Appsbar is the world's largest app community. In 30 minutes or less you can have a new app...and with our new "app-commerce" you can sell your products and services through your app. There's no programming, no charge, and no hassle to create and publish your app with appsbar.

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Vozzie

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Re: Compiler vs the Assembly guy
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2012, 08:26:15 PM »
Hi,

I'll wait for a compiler that can read my employer's mind and generate the software...

We use at my job from languages from C to VB.net, vbscript,... to tools like :icon_redface:  :( WinDev... And now we'll start to use Java too...

The right tool for the right job...

Having too many tools in a small company , for example with 4 developers, does divide the knowledge/team too much,... I hate WinDev and that's an understatement)

eg. If we get a SDK for a barcode scanner with a 'C' API but we have a GUI in WinDev then sometimes there's a Wrapper written in C to make the interface understandable/easy/uniform for the WinDev developer.

I think in many cases optimizing only happens when users complain about the speed... (or the developer notices it before deployment)

K_F

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Re: Compiler vs the Assembly guy
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 11:31:31 PM »
Appsbar is the world's largest app community. In 30 minutes or less you can have a new app...and with our new "app-commerce" you can sell your products and services through your app. There's no programming, no charge, and no hassle to create and publish your app with appsbar.
Yeughhh!! I shudder at the thought of that stuff..
Ok let's lay your bets... 1x pepperoni... that, that sort of high level system will collapse with bugware, viruses, and spybots, etc.. in a short time.. if not already.
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